New Tech/ART pay tables

[Scooter14]

So I decided to start a new topic based on a discussion in the Bonus thread regarding the new technician/ART pay tables.

 

As a 14 year technician who served as a technician from Jan 07-about three weeks ago, I’m happy progress was finally made, even if I’ll never see it.

 

Some comments were made about TAG buy-in and such. But, the way I read it, it looks like it applies to multiple agencies (to include the Department of the AIr Force).

 

Here’s the letter if you haven’t seen it:

 

And the pay tables can be found here by scrolling down to tables 0759-0767.

 

https:// https://apps.opm.gov/SpecialRates/2018/AllSRTables.aspx

 

So, since it’s the new OPM pay table and not some locally concocted bonus, all of the techs and ARTs out in Baseopsville will see this in your next civ pay LES.

 

If you don’t, you should call out your local HRO or Finance because it looks pretty cut and dry to me.

 

Scooter

 

 

[I don't exist]

Scooter, nice topic.

I'm soon to be an ART and still trying to figure out pay. What is the supplement at the far right of the tables? Is that a percentage that is added in to the pay in the table or is that already added to get the values that are in the table?  

For example, GS-13 step four in the rest of the US (table 767) = $120627 with 45% supplement.

Is 45% already added in to make 120627 or is the actual pay 120627 + (120627*45%) = $174909?

[Guardian]

Don’t forget about DSG pay. That is if you aren’t a title 5. The ART tables don’t take that into account. Seems like most get at least an additional 20k for the bare min.

[brabus]

6 hours ago, Guardian said:

Don’t forget about DSG pay. That is if you aren’t a title 5. The ART tables don’t take that into account. Seems like most get at least an additional 20k for the bare min.

For those reading, keep in mind you only get 120 hours of mil leave, so any DSG work done after 3 weeks worth of work is not double dipping - the math may not be as simple as ART pay chart + DSG pay = Gross Pay.  You may actually make less from your ART job than the chart (but maybe in the big picture make more if you were on extended MPA, etc. orders).

6 hours ago, ROCK 10 said:

OT:  I highly recommend looking into 'buying back' your AD time prior to your FERS start date.  Process took 2.5 years for AFPC/DFAS to get it right! 

Only consider this if you seriously think you're going to be an ART for the long term, retire, and understand you won't collect until around 57-60 yrs old.  That buy back is a terrible idea if there's even a half way chance you'll not be a permanent ART in a couple years (i.e. take an AGR position in the future and get to a 20 yr AD retirement).  If the latter happens, you would have been significantly better off putting that money in an investment vehicle.  I think it was a much better deal in the past when getting an AGR retirement was very difficult and the airlines weren't hiring.  Bottom line, recommend any new ART give it some time and make sure long term ART is what you want before you make this move.  I think you have a couple years to make the decision before the option is off the table. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by brabus

[Scooter14]

Brabus, I couldn’t quote the part you wrote about the double dipping, but it’s not entirely true.

Yes, you only get 120 hours of mil leave. But...AFTPs (and RSDs for now I guess) can be accomplished after your tech day is over. So, you can work 0700-1630 and then do a 1630-2030 AFTP. No leave taken, no loss of tech pay and and additive mil pay.

Same goes for weekends and holidays. If your unit has an alert tour or you go do a weekend dedicated airlift mission Fri-Sun, you only have to take 8 hours of mil leave (or accrued comp time) to get three days of mil pay. If your unit does 4x10s or AWS/CDO on a Friday and you pick up a Fri-Sun alert tour or trip, you get three days of mil pay for zero leave taken.

So yeah, your 120 hours is a limfac, but depending on the mission of the unit, you can make that go further.

I do agree 100% on the buyback. Give that one a few years if you’re coming off active duty. But you can always un-buy it back and get a refund as well.

[brabus]

True about the AFTPs - my basic point is the math is not necessarily as simple as ART pay + allotted AFTP/AT = year gross. Lot of variables (alert options or not? Availability of orders to scab together 31+ days or < 30?, etc.). The more important part is the buy back consid - good to hear you can get it refunded, I didn’t know that. But, still better to never go down that road in such a case. 

[Duck]

Sorry, I am a slow learner and not a very good listener. I’m also a slow learner. 

 

So when calculating ART Pay was the answer the $120K or the $120K + %?

 

looking at going temp ART for a couple months. Thanks dudes!

Edited January 17, 2019 by Duck

[Duck]

Duck,
It's ~120K, the +% on the right is just a reference multiplier of the GSXX base pay for your Metro area.  Still good coin for most!
Also, you'll be paying just over $200 per pay period (4.4%), in to a 'theoretical' FERS retirement.  You can ask for a full refund when you separate - just submit a ticket via MyPERS.
 

Thanks brother!


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Gazmo]

So basically straight up, no-bonus pay in the NYC area at the GS-13 step 6 rate is $142,937. I was grossing $145,625 in the old tables with a 25% bonus. Not bad. Then I guess they can throw bonuses on top of that. I made over $170k last year with milpay. I guess there will be the opportunity to make over $200k/yr as an ART for the last men standing. There are going to be a lot of lucky O-2's and young O-3's balling it up while they build flying time for the majors. Good for them. They'll definitely be earning it. This was about 10 years too late and still doesn't address the sh*tty retirement system, but it is a start. I have since moved on to greener pastures (at the moment) so will not partake in the newfound coin. In fact I'll be eating Ramen for a year, but it's all good.

 

I have a feeling we are going to see another mandate that units hire the young'ns as GS-11's and 12's again. Fresh PIQ's out of Altus making $122k/year as 13's when their other option is to go fly for a regional to build time for $45k? This is a slippery slope. This pay raise should have been to target the 10-15 year O-3/4 IP types that are hitting the "Cya later" button in mass. I still calculate making more money on 2nd year pay at any of the Big 6 with 16% retirement/profit sharing.

 

 

 

 

[SocialD]

Wait, you guys hired pilots as GS-11s?  I thought going from full time orders to GS-12 was bad enough (which is why I chose a regional over GS-12).  Yikes!   

Edited January 19, 2019 by SocialD

[Gazmo]

Wait, you guys hired pilots as GS-11s?  I thought going from full time orders to GS-12 was bad enough (which is why I chose a regional over GS-12).  Yikes!   

We, as in my unit (ANG), hired copilots as 12's, but I "heard" that at one point the AFRC was using the GS-11 rate to hire newbies and it was being thrown around the ANG for a bit.

[Gazmo]

Duck,
It's ~120K, the +% on the right is just a reference multiplier of the GSXX base pay for your Metro area.  Still good coin for most!
Also, you'll be paying just over $200 per pay period (4.4%), in to a 'theoretical' FERS retirement.  You can ask for a full refund when you separate - just submit a ticket via MyPERS.
 

While it is true you can get a full refund on your FERS contributions (with taxable interest), it is, to my knowledge, a little more involved than submitting a ticket via MyPERS. I was given a fairly lengthy application to fill out by my HRO, which includes a spouse's (or former spouse) consent with two witnesses. I have somewhere around $5,000 in mine and will be cashing it out soon. It's worth more to me now in my "Don't eat Ramen Fund" than it will be to me when I am 62, which oh-by-the-way, is the minimum age you can collect without penalty if you have less than 20 years as a Technician. Luckily, I was in the .8% club before "Operation: Screw Federal Employees" was implemented in 2014 when they went to 4.4%.

They promote absolutely no longevity with the current ART retirement system. It's just not worth it. They need to change the Aircraft Operator group to a 2% for 1 multiplier up to 20 years (then 1 for 1 after), like Air Traffic Controllers. When I outprocessed, my HRO rep gave me a rough estimate of what my Technician retirement would be after 6.5 years of service and I almost laughed myself off the chair. I would rather have the option to forego the FERS and put the money into the TSP with more matching.

It doesn't make sense for an officer in this day and age to buy back AD time into the ART program. If you were prior enlisted and became an officer, it is much more profitable, but if you have 10 years AD as an officer and decide to buy that back to get you more Fed service time for a bigger FERS retirement, it is a huge bill to pay in addition to the 4.4% contribution.

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, Gazmo said:

2 hours ago, SocialD said:

Wait, you guys hired pilots as GS-11s?  I thought going from full time orders to GS-12 was bad enough (which is why I chose a regional over GS-12).  Yikes!   

We, as in my unit (ANG), hired copilots as 12's, but I "heard" that at one point the AFRC was using the GS-11 rate to hire newbies and it was being thrown around the ANG for a bit.

Ah gotya.  Ya we (ANG) used to hire wingman and Flight leads into GS-12s.  Everyone is GS-13 for now...but I can see your assessment happening.  I honestly can't imagine asking them to go into a GS-11, that's crazy. 

[Gazmo]

Ah gotya.  Ya we (ANG) used to hire wingman and Flight leads into GS-12s.  Everyone is GS-13 for now...but I can see your assessment happening.  I honestly can't imagine asking them to go into a GS-11, that's crazy. 

Shockingly, a GS-11 step 2 with these new pay tables makes what I used to make when I was a temp-tech GS-13 step 1 in 2007. Times have changed.

[Siegzy]

On 1/13/2019 at 7:09 PM, brabus said:

give it some time and make sure long term ART is what you want before you make this move.  

For off the street TDARTs in AFRC, we’re all starting at GS-11. Can someone walk me through typical progression? -12 comes after AC, and -13 after IP?

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by Siegzy

[brabus]

Has AFRC stopped getting seasoning orders for new guys out of FTU...i.e. why would you willingly accept a GS-11 job?  Is it simply for a "guaranteed" job beyond the normal 2 years of seasoning or do seasoning orders no longer exists for AFRC?  I find the latter hard to believe, but not impossible (i.e. I can't imagine they can provide no seasoning and legally "force" a new guy into a civilian GS job).

[Siegzy]

It’s seasoning followed by a 5 year GS contract. 

[brabus]

Gotcha - follow on question, why would you sign a 5 year GS contract...job security?

[SocialD]

Oh man they actually have guys going through with that?  They talked about that here (ANG) a few years back and we all agreed that it's really not enforcable and why would we do that to our own guy's.  If seasoning days aren't enough then they should be pushing for more orders...not putting a band-aid on it by giving their bros a paycut.  

[Siegzy]

Haven’t signed the contract yet, it’s a choice made after UPT whether you want to go Traditional or take the TDART. I’m definitely leaning towards it though. Like you said, job security. I’m not a huge fan of the feast or famine thing. Also I got my dream location up in NorCal. 

[Stoker]

On 1/20/2019 at 3:31 PM, Siegzy said:

For off the street TDARTs in AFRC, we’re all starting at GS-11. Can someone walk me through typical progression? -12 comes after AC, and -13 after IP?

 

If you look up the actual job posting on USAJOBs (https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/516960200), under the qualifications section, it says UPT grad gets you GS-9, 300 flight hours in MDS gets you GS-11, 750 gets you GS-12. I'm not sure if that means you have to have that number of hours in your actual aircraft, because just below that it says student pilot and simulator hours are creditable.

I got hired by a Reserve unit right around the time that 5 year ART contract thing popped up, as far as I know it went away, at least I haven't heard anything about it.

[Gazmo]

I can't see how they could enforce an ART contract. They just can't do it. We went through this with the ANG pilot ART bonuses. The bonus payouts are biweekly and the OPM says that if an ART resigns while on a biweekly paid retention bonus, the ART just keeps what he/she got and rides off into the sunset with no strings attached. Bonus paybacks are not enforcable unless they are paid lumpsum up front, which is what they should have did if they were using their heads, but they didn't and ARTs have stayed on bonuses until they walk out the door when the airlines called.

Post UPT/FTU ANG seasoning for heavies is 250 days now. 250 days of Title 32 AD, which can be split up in chunks to accomodate deployment rotations. Going from AD orders to GS-11 or even 12 as a 1LT on orders in some parts of the country is going to be a paycut when you look at take-home pay.

I was in the unit today after being out for over a month since this change was made and it was confirmed that ARTs on previously signed retention bonuses (10-25%) will still be on bonuses above and being these new payscales. I would have been making $177k as an ART plus $40-50k or more in milpay. Not too shabby. Would that have made me stay if this had been inacted a year ago? No. With 2nd year pay at most of the majors hovering around $150k and Captain upgrades projected to be possible at the 4-5 year mark ($250-300k), the math doesn't add up. Of course this house of cards could all come toppling down as it has done in the past.

[Gazmo]

So they give the technicians a raise and now they're going to convert technician positions to AGR's. You can't make this shit up...

[SocialD]

Lol right!   But seriously, we've been converting our techs to AGR for quite some time.  Very few pilots want tech anymore...even with the pay raises.  It's tough to entice AD guys with techs jobs.   It's also impossible for airline guys to come back to help unless it's some kind of mil status.  In my squadon, the more AGRs the better.  Now if we can just get the big bonus down to a year in the ANG.

[SocialD]

2 hours ago, ROCK 10 said:

New 2019 ART SSR tables posted on OPM website to reflect the retroactive pay increase passed in Feb.  Pretty good coin for most, glad to see a new 1LT can actually make a decent wage while building time/experience.  (NOOB TDART GS-11 can exceed 100K+ with MIL pay...)

Just sayin' YMMV.

Are they getting something more than mil pay + SSR table?  GS-11 in my local is 78k, even with mil pay it's probably just shy of 100k.  When you consider the retirement points/tax free/Tricare, they're probably better off as an AGR...if that's even an option.  Until this thread, I didn't even realize they hired mil pilots into GS-11 spots, we've always hired into GS-12 minimum (even 1LTs).  With this new SSR tabel, GS-12 is now more respectable and more on par with AGR pay.  We have mid level captains at GS-13 step 3-5 and they are killing it.  Not a bad way to bid your time until you get mins for the airlines.  

Edited March 30, 2019 by SocialD