UPT Next

[Clark Griswold]

6 hours ago, BFM this said:

I might be wrong on this (second hand rumor) but I think it was implemented in some form in the RPA world.  Funding to go flying at the local FBO I’d heard.  Correct me if I’m wrong here.

It was a part of the GH program in the up till 2006, then taken away as it was cheap, simple, low risk and effective.  Thanks MG DeCuir.

[DosXX]

https://www.airforcemag.com/acc-aims-to-cut-pilot-training-time-by-up-to-half/

Edited June 19, 2020 by DosXX

[Clark Griswold]

Don’t like

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/08/18/air-force-cut-use-of-jayhawk-trainer-rely-more-simulators.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBB%2008.19.20&utm_term=Editorial%20-%20Military%20-%20Early%20Bird%20Brief


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[dream big]

There will be more mishaps if they go this route.  We will then get a fancy CSAF flight discipline video and the cycle will continue.  

[Clark Griswold]

Concur - the spiral tightens just a bit more


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[ryleypav]

In regard to the second article, Vance will be operating the modified T-1 syllabus for FY21?

[Clark Griswold]

In regard to the second article, Vance will be operating the modified T-1 syllabus for FY21?

Could not tell from the article when Vance goes to the T-1 flying lite syllabus, if you’ve got buds there or PA at Vance would know


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[12xu2a3x3]

wild to think that a year ago people though we might be going back to a single track syllabus and yet, here we are with a 1 and a half track syllabus

 

(not including helos)

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Could not tell from the article when Vance goes to the T-1 flying lite syllabus, if you’ve got buds there or PA at Vance would know


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Vance is starting a small group in the AMF top-off soonish using a Banzai flight as a test. Not sure when that starts but I expect Vance to be using the full T-1 syllabus well into 2021 for most students. 

[Clark Griswold]

Vance is starting a small group in the AMF top-off soonish using a Banzai flight as a test. Not sure when that starts but I expect Vance to be using the full T-1 syllabus well into 2021 for most students. 

Thanks - how is there not a shit storm brewing in the communities where most of these studs will wind up if this fully implemented?

Contract it out if you have to but airtime is invaluable


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[CharlieHotel47]

2 hours ago, Homestar said:

Vance is starting a small group in the AMF top-off soonish using a Banzai flight as a test. Not sure when that starts but I expect Vance to be using the full T-1 syllabus well into 2021 for most students. 

AMF topoff STUDs in Banzai are about done with T6 phase and the extra AMF stuff. Apparently the Toner banzai bros will have a shorter Toner phase similar to what is expected at 2.5. Not sure about the 38s.

[raimius]

Anyone else tired of "this new generation will learn with less flight time because they grew up with electronics" BS?  Yeah buddy, all your current captains and most of your majors did too...wanting the same for less doesn't make it work.

[elvis]

1 hour ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

AMF topoff STUDs in Banzai are about done with T6 phase and the extra AMF stuff. Apparently the Toner banzai bros will have a shorter Toner phase similar to what is expected at 2.5. Not sure about the 38s.

Currently here at Laughlin, the "innovation flight" goes through what is similar to UPT 2.5 for T-6's then they track just like everyone else and go through the same toner and 38 syllabus. The feedback from the students is not great. 

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, raimius said:

Anyone else tired of "this new generation will learn with less flight time because they grew up with electronics" BS?  Yeah buddy, all your current captains and most of your majors did too...wanting the same for less doesn't make it work.

I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t make sense to give a kid a poster and tell him to chairfly in his mind anymore. We need to leverage tech. The status quo is no longer accomplishing the mission (apparently).

[Magnum]

How about we keep the number of rides in UPT / FTU and use tech to make a much better product in the same amount of time? What if...

- Studs entered the turn circle correctly the first time they flew it because they flew it with VR 69 times before BFM-1?

- Studs knew where to put their jet in ACM on the first try everytime because VR showed them where to go?

- Studs learned a solid cross-check with the help of VR to free up time for more tactical tasks?

The things we could push them to in the FTU and UPT while still giving them plenty of rides to make dumb decisions that scare they to death with the safety net of an IP.  We might be able to rationalize all the second assessment FTU IPs when their abilities are that much better... Nevermind the fact that we become a superior fighting force.

 

[hindsight2020]

7 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

what if 11F's populated phase 3 of UPT?

don't play coy, do tell us.  😄 

Edited August 20, 2020 by hindsight2020

[BashiChuni]

26 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

don't play coy, do tell us.  😄 

coy is my middle name good sir! 😉

[Sprkt69]

55 minutes ago, Magnum said:

How about we keep the number of rides in UPT / FTU and use tech to make a much better product in the same amount of time? What if...

- Studs entered the turn circle correctly the first time they flew it because they flew it with VR 69 times before BFM-1?

- Studs knew where to put their jet in ACM on the first try everytime because VR showed them where to go?

- Studs learned a solid cross-check with the help of VR to free up time for more tactical tasks?

The things we could push them to in the FTU and UPT while still giving them plenty of rides to make dumb decisions that scare they to death with the safety net of an IP.  We might be able to rationalize all the second assessment FTU IPs when their abilities are that much better... Nevermind the fact that we become a superior fighting force.

 

You mean put less onus on the CAF IP? Pshhhh, Big Blue will have none of that

[Sua Sponte]

2 hours ago, Homestar said:

I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t make sense to give a kid a poster and tell him to chairfly in his mind anymore. We need to leverage tech. The status quo is no longer accomplishing the mission (apparently).

To leverage tech adequately, you have to pay for it. Which the USAF doesn’t have the ability to do well.

[Homestar]

10 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

To leverage tech adequately, you have to pay for it. Which the USAF doesn’t have the ability to do well.

We definitely don’t do it quickly, which matters. Although I’ve seen a lot of tech bought and implemented in the last two years I’ve been at UPT. But on a scale smaller than is needed, for example, with legacy sims. FlightSimulator 2020 has better visuals for $200. 

[ThreeHoler]

Back in my day the sims all shared the same visual generating hardware. So you only got the visuals for a small part of your sim time block.


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[Johntsunami]

16 hours ago, CharlieHotel47 said:

AMF topoff STUDs in Banzai are about done with T6 phase and the extra AMF stuff. Apparently the Toner banzai bros will have a shorter Toner phase similar to what is expected at 2.5. Not sure about the 38s.

 

This is correct.  Most are done with T-6 phase and will have the shortened Toner phase, though no one is sure exactly how short or long it will be. -38's are also getting a reduced syllabus but it doesn't sound like it's been finalized yet. Current Banzai studs have not been winged, but all classes going forward are expected to wing after T-6 phase.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, ThreeHoler said:

Back in my day the sims all shared the same visual generating hardware. So you only got the visuals for a small part of your sim time block.


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I think I remember my Tweet sims had runway lighting. Otherwise it was a dark hole of doom. 

[raimius]

16 hours ago, Homestar said:

I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t make sense to give a kid a poster and tell him to chairfly in his mind anymore. We need to leverage tech. The status quo is no longer accomplishing the mission (apparently).

I'm not saying "do what we have always done" or "F that high tech wizardry." I'm just tired of leadership claiming that the new generation can learn with less experience because they had smart phones as kids.  It's a poor justification of continual cuts to the training pipeline.  Now ops units have to do as much training as the FTU to get mission capable co-pilots, and they still barely have basic skills down.  (That's a knock against the training program, not the students.)

[Homestar]

6 hours ago, raimius said:

I'm not saying "do what we have always done" or "F that high tech wizardry." I'm just tired of leadership claiming that the new generation can learn with less experience because they had smart phones as kids.  It's a poor justification of continual cuts to the training pipeline.  Now ops units have to do as much training as the FTU to get mission capable co-pilots, and they still barely have basic skills down.  (That's a knock against the training program, not the students.)

That’s fair. But every time I hear Gen Wills speak he knows that you can’t replace time in the seat. But I think the pilot shortage is a strategic problem that could render the AF ineffective against a peer threat. Which is the greater problem?

I’m not smart on the ins and outs of teaching methods used by PTN but if there’s a better way to instruct than what we’re doing I would love to find it. 
 

I’m not convinced that mishap trends today are a result of 20 fewer hours in UPT. I definitely think the AF should research it tho.