UPT Next

[dream big]

3 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

Air Delivery

Going to stop you right their.  Aerial Delivery, or rather “Air Drop,” cannot be taught to proficiency in a sim.  Add in RF threats and other real world factors...forget it.  Anyone who advocates for such is asking for numerous mishaps.  AMC at large is not fucking airline training.  It is no wonder most of the CAF scoffs at us.  

[Clark Griswold]

Going to stop you right their.  Aerial Delivery, or rather “Air Drop,” cannot be taught to proficiency in a sim.  Add in RF threats and other real world factors...forget it.  Anyone who advocates for such is asking for numerous mishaps.  AMC at large is not ing airline training.  It is no wonder most of the CAF scoffs at us.  

Not to proficient but introduced and practiced at a level appropriate for an as yet non rated student

Real training and qualifications still are the prerogative of the FTUs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sixblades]

I think CG was just referring to UPT familiarization. Proficiency would be a very tough ask from a UPT syllabus, especially considering the different 3-1/3-3 TTPs for yet-to-be assigned MDSs. I agree that a more focused look at tactical event execution that incorporates energy management, positional SA, and those go/no-go checkpoints during execution will better prepare studs for what the FTUs will expect from them. 

After sitting in on Gen Holmes' last road show about UPT (PTN, 2.5, or whatever we're on now), it sounds like there are lot of unconventional approaches and just general experimentation in the works. I know I don't envy being in the position that our UPT IPs are in.

[Clark Griswold]

On 8/31/2020 at 12:39 AM, sixblades said:

I think CG was just referring to UPT familiarization.

Yup.  

Wanna change my suggestion for the primary multi-engine trainer to the Beech Cougar Baron, turboprop conversion of the venerable Baron.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/august/pilot/pilot-briefing-one-fast-cat

[MechGov]

Yup.  
Wanna change my suggestion for the primary multi-engine trainer to the Beech Cougar Baron, turboprop conversion of the venerable Baron.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/august/pilot/pilot-briefing-one-fast-cat

Cougar Baron: It’s the Baron you like but thoroughly upgraded, with fresher paint and new, larger, firmer glass cockpit and a strong desire to go out for a spin. Also comes with a drinking habit, divorce, 2 grown kids and a carton of Newport’s.

[Clark Griswold]

Cougar Baron: It’s the Baron you like but thoroughly upgraded, with fresher paint and new, larger, firmer glass cockpit and a strong desire to go out for a spin. Also comes with a drinking habit, divorce, 2 grown kids and a carton of Newport’s.

I like it even more now

Alive with pleasure

Cultural reference for the younger folks:

https://flashbak.com/alive-with-pleasure-newport-adverts-24078/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LiquidSky]

So this is what happened to the enlisted grad:

"Senior Airman Brenten Boler graduated Pilot Training Next on August 31, 2019--the only one in his class who was not assigned an airframe. He was assigned to be a T-6A Texan II simulator instructor at Laughlin Air Force Base, Texas." 

https://www.laughlin.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2334934/enlisted-graduate-of-pilot-training-next-instructs-at-laughlin

[SurelySerious]

Brutal! They could have at least kept him at KRND. 

[Clark Griswold]

There go enlisted volunteers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[guineapigfury]

[dream big]

2 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

So this is what happened to the enlisted grad:

"Senior Airman Brenten Boler graduated Pilot Training Next on August 31, 2019--the only one in his class who was not assigned an airframe. He was assigned to be a T-6A Texan II simulator instructor at Laughlin Air Force Base, Texas." 

https://www.laughlin.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2334934/enlisted-graduate-of-pilot-training-next-instructs-at-laughlin

There have already been programs to get sharp enlisted dudes through pilot training.  It is called commissioning. 

[JimNtexas]

I wonder if Big Air Force is thinking that the current downturn in airline hiring will continue forever?   Because a Senior Airman new pilot, who works really cheap, would certainly save a lot of bucks.  If O-4/O-5 tend to go airlines at the first opportunity,  how tempted would an E-6 pay grade be?   Unless of course every day is economically like today forever.

[hindsight2020]

Enlisted flyers is a red herring in this context. The real goal is to crank up production quotas via training dilution (airline training for heavies, reforge potato sophistry for fighters that depends on t-7 vaporware not anywhere near on time to fielding). Yes they'll deny the real goal, but thats what the doublespeak boils down to. Commissioning or lack thereof is immaterial to the timeline. That pesky task of actual pilot training is. Enlisted accessions is immaterial.

As to the economic paradigm, this has been hashed out ad nauseam. Warrants and enlisted would have a bigger incentive to punch at ATP competitive mins vis a vis commissioned payscales. In fairness, the USAF doesn't care about retention, they only say they do. They are also satisfied with the current level of hull loss, and it looks like they might be cool with a little more, before they'd be willing to cry uncle and shelf this entire effetry currently making the rounds.

As to the enlisted grad,, recognize the experiment for what it was, buckle down and get the g-damn bachelor's and move on with your life. The hard part is already in the bag for him, now he just has to do the attention span requiring part. The lack of need for a degree to learn how to fly an airplane has always been stipulated, but warrants and enlisted flyers aren't gonna come back in earnest so no point in tilting at that windmill. You hear the same shit from airline guys and the perennial kvetching over the de facto  requirement for a degree to compete at the six figure right seat jobs in part 121. No shortage of qualified candidates willing to sling gear in the right seat of a major, considering the absolute surplus of underpaid pilots in the industry. Military won't have any problem continuing to field a degree requirement for fixed wing turbine assets going forward.

[jazzdude]

I wonder if Big Air Force is thinking that the current downturn in airline hiring will continue forever?   Because a Senior Airman new pilot, who works really cheap, would certainly save a lot of bucks.  If O-4/O-5 tend to go airlines at the first opportunity,  how tempted would an E-6 pay grade be?   Unless of course every day is economically like today forever.

I wonder what a senior airman costs per year vs a GS-12 sim IP?

Then again, the sim IP or contractor doesn't count against end strength.

As for the SrA pilot jumping ship for the airlines; can't jump ship if all you do is log sim time plus 70 hours in UPT...

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, jazzdude said:

 

I wonder what a senior airman costs per year vs a GS-12 sim IP?

Then again, the sim IP or contractor doesn't count against end strength.

As for the SrA pilot jumping ship for the airlines; can't jump ship if all you do is log sim time plus 70 hours in UPT...
 

 

Did he get a 10 year commitment? 

[jazzdude]

Did he get a 10 year commitment? 

I don't have any inside info, but I'd assume yes.

[uhhello]

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

Did he get a 10 year commitment? 

Longest ADSC for enlisted is 4 years but the way I read the reg, there is no ADSC for what he did.

[SurelySerious]

8 hours ago, jazzdude said:

 

I wonder what a senior airman costs per year vs a GS-12 sim IP?

Then again, the sim IP or contractor doesn't count against end strength.

As for the SrA pilot jumping ship for the airlines; can't jump ship if all you do is log sim time plus 70 hours in UPT...
 

 

Don’t think he was looking at the small picture of just enlisted sim IPs. 

[TweetyBird]

On 8/25/2020 at 9:57 PM, Danger41 said:

How long are guys sitting casual before starting UPT now? I think we should start those casuals on ground school immediately and get them some basic instructions before they start UPT and give them access to the sim building. Give them basics to develop their hands and some instruction for primacy and that way, they can start the syllabus ahead of most guys and trim time off of how long UPT takes. If the goal is truly to produce talented aviators, let the motivated ones work on it instead of some bullshit casual job. Get rid of syllabus deviation and shit like that and allow students to take care of events themselves ahead of time. Just rewrite those events to make them hours requirements and assign some IP’s to ensure they’re not going full stupid with what they’re doing. Then give them something like a checkride prior to UPT start to ensure they’re at a standard and start them on the syllabus. I honestly think with some basic instruction with this type of training you could cut out large portions of contact and local instrument sorties. 

We got 200+ casuals sitting out here at Columbus...many without even a hint of an UPT start date. Most will be casuals for their entire O-1 career

[Danger41]

On 10/2/2020 at 1:28 AM, TweetyBird said:

We got 200+ casuals sitting out here at Columbus...many without even a hint of an UPT start date. Most will be casuals for their entire O-1 career

OMG that sounds amazing. Best 10 months of my life was casual.

[Magnum]

On 10/1/2020 at 10:28 PM, TweetyBird said:

We got 200+ casuals sitting out here at Columbus...many without even a hint of an UPT start date. Most will be casuals for their entire O-1 career

Here's a crazy idea...

What if, they were attached out to units and were a slightly useful addition to said squadron while being around operational stuff.

A new and crazy idea, I know.

[CharlieHotel47]

Here's a crazy idea...
What if, they were attached out to units and were a slightly useful addition to said squadron while being around operational stuff.
A new and crazy idea, I know.

Nahhh that makes too much sense...

Anything that makes sense, our military will probably do the opposite. Gotta keep China guessing haha


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[YoungnDumb]

We have a few doing that out here at Shaw.  They make corn and help out with various odd jobs around the squadron then head off to chase USC girls by 1400 if its a long day.

[dream big]

16 hours ago, Danger41 said:

OMG that sounds amazing. Best 10 months of my life was casual.

This was very true especially at Whiting before big AF robbed people of that opportunity.  Worked 3 hours a day in flip flops and the squadron tee shirt (navy always wear sq colored shirts) cooking burgers on the flight line, then going to the beach and chasing women.  Life didn’t suck then. 

[Breckey]

Sounds like a good group of cheap labor for the scheduling and training shops. Plus they'll have it figured out once their at their units.