UPT Next

[Arkbird]

4 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

1.  I don't believe we have the resources.  The USAF is financially broke.  I mean hard broke. 

2.  About 3 months ago we sent a casual Lieutenant to a UPT program they are doing in Georgetown Texas.  I can't recall specifics, but it sounded very interesting and pretty far outside the box for what I'd expect from the USAF.  Very glad to see it and curious how it will pan out.  

PPL, IR, CPL single engine ratings all at a civilian school then they fly the T-6 for a little bit then on to the 38 or I guess direct FTU now. My neighbor back when I was in Columbus was doing it. Seems like a really interesting small group tryout. 

[Clark Griswold]

On 7/28/2024 at 12:34 PM, HuggyU2 said:

1.  I don't believe we have the resources.  The USAF is financially broke.  I mean hard broke. 
2.  About 3 months ago we sent a casual Lieutenant to a UPT program they are doing in Georgetown Texas.  I can't recall specifics, but it sounded very interesting and pretty far outside the box for what I'd expect from the USAF.  Very glad to see it and curious how it will pan out.  

I get it, the AF has 69 other issues but this is more important than it seems, it’s not just training officers to fly but training, evaluating and forming the mind set of who will be the leaders of the AF, if we phone it in for AMC, AFSOC, part of AFGSC, AETC as I guess some of these T-6 only studs will be FAIPs we need not be surprised when as we push thru the mass of studs thru this process, some of which will not be like the hand picked strong swimmers for these small group try outs, the likely problems we encounter

Why is the Navy not giving up on an advanced ME trainer? The Army for their fixed wing qual is not cutting back hours. Why are the mins staying in place for ATP and other civ tickets? Even though they have more access to more and likely better advanced training devices, because flight hours matter, getting thru multiple phases of training matter, proving your skills in at least two different platforms matters

Choir preaching and I know you understand the problem of half assing things

If we really are this behind and don’t have the money then contract everything but a T-6 program to figure out who’s going single seat or crew.
Get the big flight training programs like UND, ER, All ATPs, etc… close 1 of the SUPT bases, you’ll either save X millions and still get a better product than T-6 only or kick the hornets nest for Congress to come up with supplemental funds or allow the AF to divest programs to fund

I’m all for out of the container ideas to do it better or be additive to UPT ref the program the Lt attended but ultimately it is about a year of training, X hours of flight and simulator training and academics, no matter how much advanced tech we throw at it, the studs today are about the same as the studs of the past in terms of intelligence and skills, they’re going to absorb it at about the same rate and you’re gonna need to observe them going thru about the same number of events to see if they’re who you want flying AF iron, we can teach a bit faster individual tasks but the overall building of airmanship still requires that time in the air


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Edited July 30 by Clark Griswold

[stlpilot11]

T-1 officially dead today including AMF-S. XPW will remain for a short time at Vance and Columbus but is totally dead at Laughlin. All studs will go direct to FTU. 

[Flev]

1 hour ago, stlpilot11 said:

T-1 officially dead today including AMF-S. XPW will remain for a short time at Vance and Columbus but is totally dead at Laughlin. All studs will go direct to FTU. 

The end of an era... Curious to see how long the T-1's at Pensacola last given the unique training they provide.

[Clark Griswold]

5 hours ago, stlpilot11 said:

T-1 officially dead today including AMF-S. XPW will remain for a short time at Vance and Columbus but is totally dead at Laughlin. All studs will go direct to FTU. 

Pennywise pound foolish AF… 

The answer is so obvious

[Tool of The Man]

14 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Pennywise pound foolish AF… 

The answer is so obvious

We tried....and were told no...competencies can be gained in AMF-S,,,,which was cancelled.

[Tool of The Man]

18 hours ago, Flev said:

The end of an era... Curious to see how long the T-1's at Pensacola last given the unique training they provide.

Gone next year....

[Tool of The Man]

20 hours ago, stlpilot11 said:

T-1 officially dead today including AMF-S. XPW will remain for a short time at Vance and Columbus but is totally dead at Laughlin. All studs will go direct to FTU. 

T-1s have been going away for 2 years. The rumor and hope that AF would cough up $$$ to save it was foolish.  It was not a training decision, but a by-product of paying for new fancy things.  Oh...and still no official date on ending AMF-S....there are recommendations...but no decision.  It will be soon, but not immediate.

[Clark Griswold]

We tried....and were told no...competencies can be gained in AMF-S,,,,which was cancelled.

Good on ya for fighting the good fight


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[Flev]

2 hours ago, Tool of The Man said:

Gone next year....

Well crud. Then what? Rely on sims and push the big topics to the FTU's? This seems like a race to the bottom.

[Tool of The Man]

10 minutes ago, Flev said:

Well crud. Then what? Rely on sims and push the big topics to the FTU's? This seems like a race to the bottom.

They prefer to call it an innovative approach to student centric learning using a competency-based training method.....

[Clark Griswold]

They prefer to call it an innovative approach to student centric learning using a competency-based training method.....

The AF…

https://tenor.com/bBZry.gif


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[disgruntledemployee]

Maybe the solution lies in a Hollywood movie.  Each aspiring USAF pilot gets matched to an old crusty vet that teaches them with stolen sim time til their dad is captured by the evil side, then they make a plan and steal a few planes and save the day.  A leg-strapped cassette player is required in order to intimidate the evil side with Twister Sister.

Edited August 6 by disgruntledemployee
spells

[stlpilot11]

5 hours ago, Tool of The Man said:

T-1s have been going away for 2 years. The rumor and hope that AF would cough up $$$ to save it was foolish.  It was not a training decision, but a by-product of paying for new fancy things.  Oh...and still no official date on ending AMF-S....there are recommendations...but no decision.  It will be soon, but not immediate.

We were told at Vance yesterday 25-01 is the last AMF-S class. Could be different elsewhere. 

[Tool of The Man]

17 hours ago, stlpilot11 said:

We were told at Vance yesterday 25-01 is the last AMF-S class. Could be different elsewhere. 

Premature......

[DuckHunter]

On 7/30/2024 at 4:47 PM, stlpilot11 said:

T-1 officially dead today including AMF-S. XPW will remain for a short time at Vance and Columbus but is totally dead at Laughlin. All studs will go direct to FTU. 

I wonder what they are doing with the T-1 building?

[LookieRookie]

On 7/28/2024 at 4:55 PM, Arkbird said:

PPL, IR, CPL single engine ratings all at a civilian school then they fly the T-6 for a little bit then on to the 38 or I guess direct FTU now. My neighbor back when I was in Columbus was doing it. Seems like a really interesting small group tryout. 

it’s called Future UPT. There will be multi engine too.

T-6A recapitalization for the Avionics Replacement Program is dead.

They will eventually go to the boneyard.

Everyone will fly T-7s as the T-6s go away after contractor Initial Pilot Training (IPT).

Edited August 2 by LookieRookie

[LookieRookie]

11 hours ago, DuckHunter said:

I wonder what they are doing with the T-1 building?

T-7 sims.

[Clark Griswold]

it’s called Future UPT. There will be multi engine too.
T-6A recapitalization for the Avionics Replacement Program is dead.
They will eventually go to the boneyard.
Everyone will fly T-7s as the T-6s go away after contractor Initial Pilot Training (IPT).

General aviation trainer to T-7 for all studs?
As long as you get enough hours in either phase that can work


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[LookieRookie]

16 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

General aviation trainer to T-7 for all studs?
As long as you get enough hours in either phase that can work


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Yes, that is the bobs at HQ AETC going in game plan.

[Clark Griswold]

Yes, that is the bobs at HQ AETC going in game plan.

I guess I’ll flip my script then… if it happens with enough hours I’ll order a big hot plate of crow and eat heartily


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[Flev]

2 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

Yes, that is the bobs at HQ AETC going in game plan.

With that being the game plan, how is IFT affected? Doesn't make much sense to spend so much money on DA-20 training to get students to presolo when they're going to solo in the GA world anyway.

My opinion (for as little as its worth) is that students should still get time in a higher performance aircraft before T-7's. Maybe something light and turbocharged? Going from bug-smashers to a "tactical" jet would be quite the jump.

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, Flev said:

With that being the game plan, how is IFT affected? Doesn't make much sense to spend so much money on DA-20 training to get students to presolo when they're going to solo in the GA world anyway.

My opinion (for as little as its worth) is that students should still get time in a higher performance aircraft before T-7's. Maybe something light and turbocharged? Going from bug-smashers to a "tactical" jet would be quite the jump.

basically all of that is rolled into future upt that will be at multiple locations controlled by a contractor.

Who knows what specific performance/desired effects the contractor will need to provide. But it won’t be at some random ERAU esque operation. It will be mil only.

Edited August 2 by LookieRookie

[hindsight2020]

4 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

Yes, that is the bobs at HQ AETC going in game plan.

It's a real shame they won't be in the seat to suffer the consequences when that numerically self-evident non-starter of a COA naturally dies in the NICU.

[Pooter]

5 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

I guess I’ll flip my script then… if it happens with enough hours I’ll order a big hot plate of crow and eat heartily


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I don’t think you’re in any danger of eating crow. Name a time programmed UPT syllabus hours increased at any point in the last decade. I’ll wait. 
 

And if anyone thinks that’s gonna happen especially when we have a shiny new trainer that’s more expensive to operate, I would love to have some of the drugs you’re on. More likely is they’ll send heavies to a sim only track after the contractor IFT or whatever the hell it is, and the 38 track will have hours cut based on some stupid argument that the t-7 training is higher fidelity somehow.

Edited August 3 by Pooter