Anyone used Turo on a TDY and gotten reimbursed?

[BADFNZ]

I thought there was a general TDY thread but I can't find it (if it exists).

Has anyone used Turo on a TDY instead of going through a traditional rental car company?  If so, have you gotten reimbursed?  If I can find a nice car on Turo for the same price as the shitbox Hertz is going to give me, why can't I use Turo instead?

For those of you unfamiliar with Turo, it's basically AirBnB for cars. 

[ThreeHoler]

Because you’ve been directed to use DTS for hotels and transportation?


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[gearhog]

35 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

Because you’ve been directed to use DTS for hotels and transportation?

...  what?

BADFNZ, as you will find, because it's new and different - it's bad. If your orders say a rental car is authorized, one would think a rental is a rental is a rental. But be prepared to justify it. A Constructed Travel Worksheet Authorization may work.

https://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/CnstTvl/CT_Authorization_Instructions.pdf

 

[SocialD]

Because the .govs red tape works at the pace of a tortoise.  When we get the "new and improved DTS" in 16-19 years, you may be able to use these "new" and convenient things like orbitz and Turo.   

[Guest]

Because you’ve been directed to use DTS for hotels and transportation?


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This. Your AO may approve it, but there’s no guarantee.
Likewise, I’d be cautious about using Airbnb for lodging. The JTR mandates staying at places that meet fire code, and there’s a memo floating around that says Airbnbs should not be used due to the fact that their standards/compliance are not verified.


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[matmacwc]

Gonna go get your Doug Demuro on?  If your ANG ask your finance dude, if your AD, good luck, Davis Monthan has 13 people that review it until you get paid, YMMV.

[EvilEagle]

We got shut down on Airbnb and the like even when it saves money.  Bummer. 

 

FWIW, everywhere I've been Turo has been crazy expensive for anything decent. 

[herkbier]

I thought the AirBnB memo was rescinded.  Just talk to your AO though, if you gave me a constructed travel worksheet I’d let it fly.

[Homestar]

You think rental car lobbyists spent all that money in D.C. lobbying the pentagon on JTR just to let you use your Turo app to get a car? Same goes for hotel lobbyists. 

[BADFNZ]

I'm basically trying to work it like declining on-base lodging. 

If Hertz is going to charge me $50/day for a Kia, I'd rather find something with some balls for a little more money and I'll pay the overage.  Insurance won't be an issue because Turo covers that, so I'm not sure which AirBnB "fire code" excuse they can pull.  The only hangup I can see here is it's different and new, which frightens DTS Nazis.

[ThreeHoler]

The Joint Travel Regulations (JTR) directs you to the least-expensive, compact-sized rental vehicle offered by a company with a DTMO rental car agreement. And since the JTR has the full force and effect of law, it’s good to stay within its confines.

Fifteen seconds Googling “DTS rental car” led to an answer.

Note the key words “with a DTMO rental agreement.” So, if Turo has one of those then you’re good to go. If they don’t? Well, it depends on your AO and the people who audit your travel.


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[SocialD]

12 hours ago, Homestar said:

You think rental car lobbyists spent all that money in D.C. lobbying the pentagon on JTR just to let you use your Turo app to get a car? Same goes for hotel lobbyists. 

Likely the most honest answer.

 

6 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Note the key words “with a DTMO rental agreement.” So, if Turo has one of those then you’re good to go. If they don’t? Well, it depends on your AO and the people who audit your travel.

 

Like so many things in the military.   I've recently run into a few interesting examples of this where some places can do things while others can not do the exact same thing...all because of who is doing the auditing and how they are interpreting the laws.  Beyond ridiculous!

Edited February 10, 2019 by SocialD

[Guest]

Like so many things in the military.   I've recently run into a few interesting examples of this where some places can do things while others can not do the exact same thing...all because of who is doing the auditing and how they are interpreting the laws.  Beyond ridiculous!

It would help if the laws were interpretable to begin with. The JTR has so many contradictions that two competent people can read it, and come up with entirely different answers, with neither being objectively wrong.

DTS/JTR are also not designed for aircrew. I once flew a mission where I stayed in expensive locations, but went 3-4 days straight airborne at 12am. This caused all those days to be “en route”. When we finally had a location that counted for Per diem, it was Gander, at something like $41.

[BADFNZ]

I realize I'm justifying this to the wrong audience, but here's what I've found that tells me this might be legal:

1.  JTR 020209.A says "a traveler must obtain a rental vehicle through an electronic system when it is available or through the TMC when it is not available". Turo is 100% an electronic system. 

2.  JTR 020209.B says "a traveler is reimbursed the cost of the authorized or approved rental vehicle".  So if I'm authorized a $50 Kia, I should be reimbursed for a $50 Kia, regardless of what I car I get if it is more expensive.

3.  JTR Table 2-8 says "If a traveler does not obtain the rental vehicle through a TMC (basically CTO) then reimbursement is limited to what the rental vehicle would have cost if it had been obtained through a TMC".  So I should be reimbursed the rate of a compact if I would have gone through CTO.

So if I lawyer my way through the JTR, it looks like as long as I:

-Get a rental authorized through DTS

-Book through the Turo ap separately

-Don't exceed the cost of the authorized compact (if I do, I'll be on the hook for the difference)

Then I should be able to justify the Turo rental. 

Leeeeerrrooyyyyyyyyy Jenkkkkiiinnnnsssssssss

[ThreeHoler]

Turo is not the “electronic system” DTS is. That is why TMC is secondary.


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[SocialD]

3 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

Then I should be able to justify the Turo rental. 

Leeeeerrrooyyyyyyyyy Jenkkkkiiinnnnsssssssss

I think it was Huggy who said he fairly recently retired and never had a GTC, so I guess anything is possible.  Start blazing that trail!

[viper154]

4 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I realize I'm justifying this to the wrong audience, but here's what I've found that tells me this might be legal:

1.  JTR 020209.A says "a traveler must obtain a rental vehicle through an electronic system when it is available or through the TMC when it is not available". Turo is 100% an electronic system. 

2.  JTR 020209.B says "a traveler is reimbursed the cost of the authorized or approved rental vehicle".  So if I'm authorized a $50 Kia, I should be reimbursed for a $50 Kia, regardless of what I car I get if it is more expensive.

3.  JTR Table 2-8 says "If a traveler does not obtain the rental vehicle through a TMC (basically CTO) then reimbursement is limited to what the rental vehicle would have cost if it had been obtained through a TMC".  So I should be reimbursed the rate of a compact if I would have gone through CTO.

So if I lawyer my way through the JTR, it looks like as long as I:

-Get a rental authorized through DTS

-Book through the Turo ap separately

-Don't exceed the cost of the authorized compact (if I do, I'll be on the hook for the difference)

Then I should be able to justify the Turo rental. 

Leeeeerrrooyyyyyyyyy Jenkkkkiiinnnnsssssssss

As many people here have said, it’s up to your RA. I would run all of this by them first. My current RA is a good bro and uses commen sense. Unfortunately many are not, and get pressured from the group/wing to be strict, some are just dicks, and then you have to worry about how big of a stickler the finance guy will be that reviews the accounts. 

 

My best advice would be to do what your rank/career/desire to fight the man can handle. Is it worth months of hassle, being “that” guy, and meeting with leadership over a free rental Kia? I would say no, but to each their own.  I personally have had a decent success rate of just being extra nice to the rental car person and asking for a bigger/nicer car because of “all the luggage and driving” I have to do. 

[matmacwc]

On 2/9/2019 at 5:58 PM, EvilEagle said:

We got shut down on Airbnb and the like even when it saves money.  Bummer. 

 

FWIW, everywhere I've been Turo has been crazy expensive for anything decent. 

But sometimes it’s worth it, got this last weekend in Los Angeles using Turo, rented for the weekend.  Ferrari 488 GTB Spider.

 

 

[Majestik Møøse]

True story: needed a midsize car for a 3-week TDY. Was already at location so I just went to the National desk, gave them my Emerald Club Executive number (because Amex), got a $630 estimate, and handed over my GTC for payment. Do the right thing, you know? As soon as the guy swiped the GTC, the estimate changed to $1250 because it automatically switched to the a government ”contracted” rate. So I elected to use my Amex to get the bill back down to $630, probably in violation of whatever kickbacks the JTR is supporting, but better for the taxpayer.

There’s some kind of shady shit going on there.

[SocialD]

9 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

So I elected to use my Amex to get the bill back down to $630, probably in violation of whatever kickbacks the JTR is supporting, but better for the taxpayer.

Wow, and you were paid without issue?  Our finance would have denied my voucher a few times, threatened to not pay for not using my GTC.   I'm still trying to get a voucher through from a TDY over 3 months ago.  Our FM once tried to force me (a part-timer) into paying by saying I wouldn't "be able" to go TDY because my card will be shutoff.  I don't think me laughing uncontrollably and letting him know that is perfectly fine with me, was the reaction the FM was looking for.  

This is one of the few downsides to Guard units.  Sometimes someone gets dug in and builds an empire...then his proteges take over and continue it.  Their biggest concern is the dreaded "audit," which drives their overly cautious nature.  There is hope that the next in line for WG/CC will fix this.  LOTS of people on base have started saying no to TDYs simple because it's such an ass pain to get paid anymore.  Next voucher, I'm thinking of attaching a MFR with a narrative of events for the TDY, with "READ ME FIRST."  I've already started attaching my cell number with a note to call me before rejection. 

I wish they'd just bring back 1351-2s...paper vouchers!

[Breckey]

When the AO questions it I ask if they bought every meal with their GTC. If not then they’re just as in violation of the JTR as I am using my AMEX since every expense is required to use the GTC. Also the whole thing saying that they can’t refuse reimbursement for a legitimate expense usually backs them off the ledge.

[herkbum]

Wow, and you were paid without issue?  Our finance would have denied my voucher a few times, threatened to not pay for not using my GTC.   I'm still trying to get a voucher through from a TDY over 3 months ago.  Our FM once tried to force me (a part-timer) into paying by saying I wouldn't "be able" to go TDY because my card will be shutoff.  I don't think me laughing uncontrollably and letting him know that is perfectly fine with me, was the reaction the FM was looking for.  
This is one of the few downsides to Guard units.  Sometimes someone gets dug in and builds an empire...then his proteges take over and continue it.  Their biggest concern is the dreaded "audit," which drives their overly cautious nature.  There is hope that the next in line for WG/CC will fix this.  LOTS of people on base have started saying no to TDYs simple because it's such an ass pain to get paid anymore.  Next voucher, I'm thinking of attaching a MFR with a narrative of events for the TDY, with "READ ME FIRST."  I've already started attaching my cell number with a note to call me before rejection. 
I wish they'd just bring back 1351-2s...paper vouchers!

That needs to be squashed ASAP. Offer to take the FM on a TDY and see if the perspective changes. This is not how an ANG unit should function. Full timers forget their job is to SUPPORT the part timer.


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[SocialD]

36 minutes ago, Breckey said:

When the AO questions it I ask if they bought every meal with their GTC. If not then they’re just as in violation of the JTR as I am using my AMEX since every expense is required to use the GTC. Also the whole thing saying that they can’t refuse reimbursement for a legitimate expense usually backs them off the ledge.

Agreed 100%, I actually had to use that last week to get them to relent on a minor clerical error (no money) made by the hotel desk clerk.  I have 4-5 days/month to get 6 sorties, knock out queep and fight these battles.  Honestly, anymore I don't care which one takes priority, I'll just roll with whatever the leadership wants at the time, but I'm still only showing up 4-5 days/month...their choice.  In the end, I've never been denied payment, but the constant battles are tiring.  

 

1 minute ago, herkbum said:

That needs to be squashed ASAP. Offer to take the FM on a TDY and see if the perspective changes. This is not how an ANG unit should function. Full timers forget their job is to SUPPORT the part timer.

 

Preach brotha!  One finance officer has already been fired...I think more will follow when we get our next WG/CC.  You're right though, we should actually force someone from finance to go on every 2-3 week TDY we do as a unit.  

[Majestik Møøse]

1 hour ago, SocialD said:

Their biggest concern is the dreaded "audit," which drives their overly cautious nature.  There is hope that the next in line for WG/CC will fix this.

That’s laughable at first look, but I actually get it. Every group has some kind of bureaucratic boogeyman threatening an action that’s never really happened. It’s their version of getting “violated” by some third world ATC. The old guys perpetuate the myth to the new guys until the newest guys realize there’s not actually a monster under the bed.