Reserve 135’s Shifting to 4 Month Taskings?!?!?!

[kapilot]

Spill what you know.

[ImNotARobot]

Know? Officially released? I know nothing.

But the rumor of that change officially dropping is at least two months old.

AFRC will know no fury like the airline pilot scorned. This is going to greatly simplify the path forward for many Reserve pilots.

[kapilot]

No more rumor, it’s happening. Announced at BFR today. Everywhere else tomorrow. They’ll be the first to live it. Seems like the formal announcement was put off to allow names to go in with minimal time as to avoid exodus. 120 requirements not allowed to be split like the guard. Their data says (and I can’t make this up) that we like deploying and it won’t be a problem.

Word is the WG and OG types fought for us but their input feel on deaf ears. Told to sell as a “good deal”.

Welp we’ll see ya...

[ImNotARobot]

BFR? Help me with that one. Getting old sucks, Goggle Machine no help.

[kapilot]

Sorry fat fingered that one... Grissom

[SocialD]

No swaps allowed?  How often would an individual have to deploy?   Interesting they think it won't have an impact on your manning, I guess time will tell.  

[gearhog]

 

9 hours ago, kapilot said:

No more rumor, it’s happening. Announced at BFR today. Everywhere else tomorrow. They’ll be the first to live it. Seems like the formal announcement was put off to allow names to go in with minimal time as to avoid exodus. 120 requirements not allowed to be split like the guard. Their data says (and I can’t make this up) that we like deploying and it won’t be a problem.

Word is the WG and OG types fought for us but their input feel on deaf ears. Told to sell as a “good deal”.

Welp we’ll see ya...

How does this change things for you tanker guys?

In the Guard airlift, we get 120 deployments during our AEF rotation cycle (~2.5-3 years), and we've always been allowed a half-time swapout if we had the crewmembers to do it. The rumor we're getting is no more 60 day swaps to save money. Our next AEF is right around the corner and a lot of our over 20 guys have their finger on the button in case it becomes official.

[kapilot]

 
How does this change things for you tanker guys?
In the Guard airlift, we get 120 deployments during our AEF rotation cycle (~2.5-3 years), and we've always been allowed a half-time swapout if we had the crewmembers to do it. The rumor we're getting is no more 60 day swaps to save money. Our next AEF is right around the corner and a lot of our over 20 guys have their finger on the button in case it becomes official.

Torq

Reserve 135 has been living the same rotation as you except under different orders with less leniency. We’ve had 90 day orders WITHOUT the ability to swap halfway through. (We use to swap half through prior to 2008 on 30 day in country, that kept people around forever). What’s changing is we’re being forced into 120 days in country without the flexibility to swap half through.

So now we’re looking down the barrel at 5 months gone from work 4 months away from home every 2 years. I can see the writing on the wall with multiple units entering conversion for the KC46 it’s placing a strain on the remaining 135 squadrons and block 40 tails. I personally believe that under this structure they’ll have to reduce dwell to keep it going. Which would be 120 every 1.5 yrs roughly or even less depending on what they do.

The simple answer is to allow members the flexibility to swap. If that were permitted it wouldn’t look any different to the squadrons and manning would stay the same.

I’m curious how would your manning change now if the guard said “no more swaps if you get a 120 your gone 120!”?

I don’t buy the cost savings excuse. We all know that’s a load.

[SocialD]

2 hours ago, kapilot said:

I’m curious how would your manning change now if the guard said “no more swaps if you get a 120 your gone 120!”?

I don’t buy the cost savings excuse. We all know that’s a load.

 

Fighter bubba here, but we're basically sitting at 100 days gone every 19-22 months. We don't have enough swaps to allow everyone a swap, but it's over half.  If they ever took that away, I see our manning going to shit in a hurry...especially if pushed further out to 120+ days.

What's the cost savings when all your experience walks out the door?

[brabus]

Ironically the AD has started allowing swaps for some people/positions in the past 1.69 years or so (only speaking for the Viper community).  When I got out of AD about that long ago, any swaps were approximately 0.00069 Pk.  In my timeframe in the ANG I've heard of more AD deployment swapouts than I did in my entire 11 years on AD.  Trying to be an optimist, maybe if even full-retard AD is sort of starting to get that part, it'll keep the ANG in line.  I don't really give a shit if we have to cover a 6 month deployment if 60-90 day swaps are allowed.  No swaps / > 90 days  = ANG manning in the mega-red overnight.

[SocialD]

30 minutes ago, brabus said:

I don't really give a shit if we have to cover a 6 month deployment if 60-90 day swaps are allowed.  No swaps / > 90 days  = ANG manning in the mega-red overnight.

The problem with that model is actually having people to swap.  Many squadrons are currently not very well staffed...some squadrons have a shockingly low number on the LOX's.  So a 6 month trip with a 90 day swap isn't going to do much when you don't have people to swap with...guest help only goes so far.  This is compounded when you still have an alert mission to fill back home.  

100% agree on your last sentence.

Edited February 10, 2019 by SocialD

[kapilot]

Exactly! We’re being told we’ll the fighter/bomber/herc’s are already doing 120s gone, it shouldn’t be a problem for 135s. WTF has anyone taken the time to look at their manning numbers compared to ours?! We’ve been at or over 100% the past 10 yrs. This is going to put us at 80-85% in one years timeframe. Everyone with a job and within 1 yr of 20 and those over 20... gone... (=experience). We’ll go from 100% to 80-85% within a year. Two years... who knows. This all compounds the problem... manning drops now most in the squadrons are being pushed out the door as soon as dwell allows. Oh by the way... who controls dwell? It’s an AFI! Time to vote with feet.

 

Any reserve fighter/bomber types wanna throw in? What are y’all doing?

 

[pawnman]

Can't speak for ANG or AFRC, but in the B-1 mid-tour swaps were pretty common on active duty.  On all of my four deployments, at least a couple people swapped out mid-way.

[brabus]

2 hours ago, SocialD said:

The problem with that model is actually having people to swap.  Many squadrons are currently not very well staffed...some squadrons have a shockingly low number on the LOX's.  So a 6 month trip with a 90 day swap isn't going to do much when you don't have people to swap with...guest help only goes so far.  This is compounded when you still have an alert mission to fill back home.  

100% agree on your last sentence.

100% agree - I should have clarified swaps allowed AND the manning to support.  If manning can't support, then tell AD to pound sand and we're (the ARC) only supporting 90 days of the AEF.  I think 90 is the absolute max that is somewhat sustainable (60 would be ideal and more sustainable).

[hindsight2020]

what a dumpster fire.

[SocialD]

16 hours ago, brabus said:

100% agree - I should have clarified swaps allowed AND the manning to support.  If manning can't support, then tell AD to pound sand and we're (the ARC) only supporting 90 days of the AEF.  I think 90 is the absolute max that is somewhat sustainable (60 would be ideal and more sustainable).

Based on some recent events I have gained a little bit of belief that ANG will tell the AD to pound sand on certain issues...but they still have a long way to go.  Wrt manning, I know of a few squadrons who are sub-20s on the LOXs...these are units that also have alert.  When the Montgomery dudes went on their 6-month to Afghanistan they got ZERO swaps.  Fairly certain they lost a few dudes over that trip.

 

16 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

what a dumpster fire.

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by SocialD

[ImNotARobot]

It's sad, funny, and miscalculated. When the new AMC/CC rolled in from AFRC, I was hopeful that she would remember how she was brought up. But to increase the pressure/required time away on part timers (farmers, dentists, accountants, firefighters, police officers, business owners, and yes, airline pilots) is absolutely backward thinking. She is effectively accelerating her manning crisis, which I didn't think was even possible.

I understand that McC AFB just got the first KC-46s. I also understand that it will take years for those AD/ARC units to fully stand up as combat ready. In the interim, I understand that all other KC-135 units will be required to somehow backfill insane and rapidly increasing tasking levels. I also understand that AD guys simply can't comprehend what it's like to say no to shitty deals. I was AD for over a decade, and when I arrived in AFRC, the grass was definitely greener. I couldn't have understood the balance of two jobs with family like a TR until I lived it though. I guess I also now understand that the AMC/CC is willing to break the ARC in order to show that she can swim with the big fish on AD. 

What the "leaders" and staffers don't understand is the part timer has already quit once (at least), and is fully willing to quit again. It's no longer a question of "when this mil job stops being fun", it's a question of it decimating a family and primary job structure BUILT around a PART TIME military job. Guys are going to lose their businesses over this change. We all joke that AFRC is AD Light, but these administrative changes aren't just heavily leaning on the ARC, they are attempting top produce another AD branch outright. 

Enough preaching about patriotism and commitment while sh!tting down our throats. When any sane TR with another job/life has an opportunity to stop the madness, you're damned right they're going to jump. And that will subsequently break the ARTs who remained behind for their own reasons. As I stated earlier, these frenzied policies greatly simply the way forward for many families. No longer will you see a LtC staying until 28 years, or a Major to 24 years.. Every single TR will be punching after the minimum commitment is up. 

Congrats on that 4th star MaryAnne. You wear it well.

[kapilot]

Imnotarobot and MaryAnn make great points. After reading your post I went and looked at her bio and from the looks of it... she’s only ever worked for the AF full time. Doesn’t take long poking around AFRC leadership bios to realize we are being run by folks who never really left their active duty mentality. How in the hell can people who’ve never been a traditional reservist with a civilian job (and deploy) lead and set policy for thousands who live that lifestyle?!? That is insanity!

I’ve said for a long time that AFRC is active duty’s second chance. They may be wearing AFRC patches but no part of them knows what that means. No one should be allowed to lead citizen airmen unless they’ve had a civilian job and had to balance work/business, family, and military.

[gearhog]

 

[matmacwc]

The geniuses that came up with this know it’s a problem, I betcha @SocialD next paycheck there is a line, a line of retirements and separations that will reverse this decision.  You’re gonna lose a lot of great people, I cannot believe this decision hasn’t had every angle at least discussed.

[SocialD]

4 hours ago, kapilot said:

Imnotarobot and MaryAnn make great points. After reading your post I went and looked at her bio and from the looks of it... she’s only ever worked for the AF full time. Doesn’t take long poking around AFRC leadership bios to realize we are being run by folks who never really left their active duty mentality. How in the hell can people who’ve never been a traditional reservist with a civilian job (and deploy) lead and set policy for thousands who live that lifestyle?!? That is insanity!

I’ve said for a long time that AFRC is active duty’s second chance. They may be wearing AFRC patches but no part of them knows what that means. No one should be allowed to lead citizen airmen unless they’ve had a civilian job and had to balance work/business, family, and military.

From what I can tell, the closest thing she has to part time is 3 years as an ART, in a unit attached to the AD...lol!  I think the SQ/CC and/or the OG/CC should be a part time position.  If you want to work your way up to state/national leadership that road should go through a stint as a part-timer with another job.  On the flip side, not many part timers willing to take on those roles without a serious shedding of BS requirements that have accumulated since we've gone to a mostly full time leadership force.  Fighter squadrons would have to bring back the AOO and assign a full time ADO, to share the workload of the OG and SQ/CC respectively.  

 

5 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

The geniuses that came up with this know it’s a problem, I betcha @SocialD next paycheck there is a line, a line of retirements and separations that will reverse this decision.  You’re gonna lose a lot of great people, I cannot believe this decision hasn’t had every angle at least discussed.

Whew, good thing my next paycheck is just from 15 days of mil orders and not from my next 3-day trip.  I bet it was discussed and I have zero doubt that there were some that spoke up against it, but were ultimately shot down.  Until people start voting with their feet, it's not a true problem.  I'm not in the tanker community but I can see that having a few ARC wings switching to the KC-46 will cause some pain and understand something needs to give, but the decision to lengthen deployments AND deny swaps is just mind-boggling. 

[Cheddar]

These people don’t care about you, your family or your life.

 

I’ve had some really great years out of the 23 I’ve been in. But these idiots have no idea what they are doing. None of the people in charge have ANY idea of the TR’s life and commitments to family and other careers. That’s criminal, negligent, and may end up costing us the AFRC we knew and barely tolerated.

 

We are just starting to hemorrhage pilots and the airlines are just starting to hit the huge retirement numbers. And AFRC says, “hey AD, hold my beer!”

 

Glad my retirement papers are in and ~3000 under me at the other job. But I’m sad for those that are stuck as ARTs or those still entangled in commitments. Many of my best friends are wondering ‘what now?’ and ‘why?’

 

GET OUT or change jobs before you get tasked. These people don’t care about you, your family or your life.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gazmo]

These people don’t care about you, your family or your life.
 
I’ve had some really great years out of the 23 I’ve been in. But these idiots have no idea what they are doing. None of the people in charge have ANY idea of the TR’s life and commitments to family and other careers. That’s criminal, negligent, and may end up costing us the AFRC we knew and barely tolerated.
 
We are just starting to hemorrhage pilots and the airlines are just starting to hit the huge retirement numbers. And AFRC says, “hey AD, hold my beer!”
 
Glad my retirement papers are in and ~3000 under me at the other job. But I’m sad for those that are stuck as ARTs or those still entangled in commitments. Many of my best friends are wondering ‘what now?’ and ‘why?’
 
GET OUT or change jobs before you get tasked. These people don’t care about you, your family or your life.
 
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

As with anything in the AF, talking with your feet usually works best.

[Guardian]

As with anything in the AF, talking with your feet usually works best.

Works for the individual. Doesn’t change a thing for organization being left unless it cares for its highly trained members, which in this case doesn’t seem to be the case.

[SurelySerious]

7 hours ago, Guardian said:

Works for the individual. Doesn’t change a thing for organization being left unless it cares for its highly trained members, which in this case doesn’t seem to be the case.

So there is no hope?