Reserve 135’s Shifting to 4 Month Taskings?!?!?!

[Cheddar]

Ya but that's a double edged sword, because then all you get to hear about is how much better they did everything at NWA.  Or how DAL is terrible for getting rid of the 747 or SOPA/SMAC.  Or the ever favorite when we taxi past a cargo jet, you get to hear them mumble, "there's no money in cargo..."  EVERY...TIME!  You can almost set your watch by it.  

When I was on the S80 I flew with my share of TWay CA’s. All but one bought, and bought and bought... and the other I only did a turn with. Now that was a double edged sword - after the third beer I was looking for a suicide prevention hotline. Then after another they had me in tears laughing. Those 10 hour layovers were ROUGH!!!!







Kidding. They were closer to 11


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[AirGuardianC141747]

Run into the Widget Pilots on a routine basis overseas on their WB’s and the NWA Capt’s will always let you know how DAL screwed them over left/right/up/down over  dinner, a drink or 2 or 3 whatever.... But at the end of the night/AM, they do pay more than their fair share and then some comparatively speaking (my observation is in the Far East predominantly) But then again, I am one of those no money in Cargo ops so maybe it’s cuz they feel sorry for us. Got it, makes sense now!!! More Food and Drink, Make it happen NWA Capt’n - Nearly lost my ramen reading those lyrics, so perfect... Either way, “Delta Moderate is Cargo smooth,” and a free meal is a free meal, gotta love the job.

Sorry, I do concur that 120 days or more is Balls... This idea may crumble hopefully and just fail miserably for those Commanders without a pulse. Come on over to the dark side and save or create your lifestyle. At least you are compensated when misery arrives. 

[SocialD]

On 4/1/2019 at 1:19 AM, AirGuardianC141747 said:

But then again, I am one of those no money in Cargo ops so maybe it’s cuz they feel sorry for us.

No, the comment "there is no money in cargo..." is fNWA pilots pissed because Delta got rid of NWA cargo operation.  That phase was said by some upper level management type when asked why we were getting rid of the old NWA cargo operation.  A fNWA guy can't taxi passed a cargo plane with out making that statement....it's not a jab at cargo, it's a jab at DAL management.  I sometimes just ask why I say Delta when I key the mic and not NWA...usually gets the conversation going. 🤣

Edited April 4, 2019 by SocialD

[AirGuardianC141747]

Good info, totally get it SocialD - Thanks! I do very well, but not like Purple or Brown shoes by any means to include the Big 3 and others. Really enjoy the crews and the flying, but compensation most definitely could be better. While there is plenty of money in Cargo, our folks aren’t really seeing it until a new contract is ever finalized - no real target on that. 🤔 I really am that guy flying rubber dog 💩out of Hong Kong 🥴😆😜 who I guess screwed up just that much 👌🏼 ... It’s good to have thick skin in our business and I actually do enjoy going to work if you can really call it that and it’s been all my choice. That’s a good effort at a run on sentence.

Every place has its hiccups, Military included. Priorities change and the repercussions are felt all the way down the line and magnified as well. It’s just unfortunate that these “repercussions” are not necessarily unintended/unknown when executed these days. Perception is reality it seems and $$$ drives the train.

[kapilot]

[AirGuardianC141747]

Same General wrote this on his white board as well... Let’s issue 1 copy for all the families to share!

[BADFNZ]

Question from someone hopefully transitioning to the reserves soon regarding this swap out and dwell protection issue:

I think I'm tracking that if you volunteer to swap out half way through a deployment, then you're not given dwell protection.  Does this mean you're not given ANY dwell protection, or you're just not given the usual 5:1?  Does it get bumped down to 2:1/1:1/something else?  Also, let's say your KC-135/C-130/whatever unit deploys for 120 days with several 60-day swap outs.  Even though you might lose that dwell protection, your unit as a whole would still be afforded the 5:1 dwell and therefore wouldn't be asked to deploy for 2 years, correct?  So even though the individuals may not be protected, odds are your unit wouldn't get asked to deploy for a while anyways.  Am I applying this correctly?  Would you then just be vulnerable for a onesie/twosie staff deployment somewhere?

[kapilot]

Question from someone hopefully transitioning to the reserves soon regarding this swap out and dwell protection issue:
I think I'm tracking that if you volunteer to swap out half way through a deployment, then you're not given dwell protection.  Does this mean you're not given ANY dwell protection, or you're just not given the usual 5:1?  Does it get bumped down to 2:1/1:1/something else?  Also, let's say your KC-135/C-130/whatever unit deploys for 120 days with several 60-day swap outs.  Even though you might lose that dwell protection, your unit as a whole would still be afforded the 5:1 dwell and therefore wouldn't be asked to deploy for 2 years, correct?  So even though the individuals may not be protected, odds are your unit wouldn't get asked to deploy for a while anyways.  Am I applying this correctly?  Would you then just be vulnerable for a onesie/twosie staff deployment somewhere?

As of today... staff tours are only being fed to units that don’t deploy regularly or in mass ie C5, C17, School houses (even FTU) etc. If you go tanker, herc, fighter you’ll most likely not deal with a staff deployment. Then again I’m sure you’ve been around long enough to know that a kick in the nuts can come at any time and in any form.

Dwell... it depends on how the community/wing has chosen to handle it. To clarify we’re only talking AFRC here not guard. It’s an important distinction bc they tend to handle deployments differently.

AFRC tends to insist on deployments that meet the laws required to entitle benefits and dwell protection. That’s why AFRC sees longer deployments generally speaking. From what I’m told 45 days (away) is the minimum that you could be “non-voled” into and still receive dwell/benefits.

To answer your question you HAVE to know how you’re being deployed by AFRC ie did you volunteer or were you a non-volunteer. The issue of dwell lies with your volunteer status. A non-vol will receive dwell whereas a volunteer does not. So generally speaking if you are correct that if a unit is tasked with a 120 day abroad that same unit won’t be tasked again unit its dwell runs out. When you here people talk about a squadrons bucket that’s what their referring to. However in reality AFRC has and will continue to (in my opinion) task units with onesie twosie crews here and there bc they won’t stand up to active duty demands and refuse to stop piecemealing crews.

Up to this point I’m not aware of AFRC dwell being reduced and HQ has been adamant in their stance that it won’t be. (What did active duty do with their dwell?) So as of now The 5:1 is in place for everyone and is also driving piecemeal crews. The more AFRC breaks up squadrons the more spread out everyone’s dwell becomes and only encourages more piecemealing. To AFRCs credit they’ve been trying to correct this but it’s difficult to do until you get a break in deployments or demand a reset/rest period.

That’s a long way to say that...Anyone entering AFRC in a operational squadron WILL deploy. If your in a high demand platform you will deploy as a squadron but if you forfeit dwell for a non-vol status you need to assume that you be hit with a onesie twosie. They’re so frequent where I’m at that a wise squadron commander created our own internal transparent system of handling them so the squadron wouldn’t rip itself apart from infighting about “who’s turn is it”

[kapilot]

Can anyone shed any light on what AFRC is doing with 135 deployments? This is ridiculous that nothing has been communicated.

[kapilot]

So..... still nothing other than... we’ll let you know when you figure something out. Tick tock clocks running.

[ImNotARobot]

Anyone have knowledge on the Beale or Shady J 120-day tanker deployment taskings for 2019? Did the deployments actually execute as 120-day orders, or were the units allowed to break those up into 60s?

From what I can find, there has been no official change with the 3-stars memo delineating 120s as the new standard. Everything I've heard that would lighten that load is heresay. The MFR remains signed and unchanged from its release 6 months ago.

[kapilot]

Anyone have knowledge on the Beale or Shady J 120-day tanker deployment taskings for 2019? Did the deployments actually execute as 120-day orders, or were the units allowed to break those up into 60s?
From what I can find, there has been no official change with the 3-stars memo delineating 120s as the new standard. Everything I've heard that would lighten that load is heresay. The MFR remains signed and unchanged from its release 6 months ago.

You nailed it... it’s all been heresay... no new guidance post working group. Typical AF leadership, keep comm minimal in an effort to control scuttle rather than just being honest and letting people know where things stand. If I had to guess it’s all being argued inside AFRC and with AD. If you don’t have your emer plan I’d recommend putting something together sooner than later. I have a hammer in my hand and raised ready to break the glass. I’m sure every TR with a civ job is doing the same.

If this happens it’ll be an exodus.

Also...

AFRC 135 has always been on 120 days rotations but HQ cut them into 60s and divided them out. The memo is basically stating that they won’t do that anymore.

[LoadsBackOnHeadset]

@Cheddar and @GlassEmpty

Just wanted to swing by to say that as a current 130 guard type applying to Grissom, when I typed Grissom into the search bar this was the first thread other than assignments. So, basically, yes, there are people who are considering AFRC/ KC-135 jump using this to partially inform their decision. 

Appreciate the candid discourse though. 4 month deployments or not, the grass still looks pretty green over there to me : D 

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, LoadsBackOnHeadset said:

@Cheddar and @GlassEmpty

Just wanted to swing by to say that as a current 130 guard type applying to Grissom, when I typed Grissom into the search bar this was the first thread other than assignments. So, basically, yes, there are people who are considering AFRC/ KC-135 jump using this to partially inform their decision. 

Appreciate the candid discourse though. 4 month deployments or not, the grass still looks pretty green over there to me : D 

weird, people are always singing the praises of guard autonomy over active duty lite on here. must be real bad in 130s if AFRC looks like shangri la to you. That or someones lying, cuz it cant be both.

[kapilot]

I’m not guard but I have many friends that are. In my talks it appears that at the flying unit level QOL can depend on many things. Mostly who’s running the TAG (army or air) and how much money AD is feeding, and what airframe/mission. The answers will vary. Do your homework find what fits for you.