Lifestyle of an Airline and ANG Fighter Pilot

[Burger]

Curious if anyone will be willing to share their schedules on a month to month basis. Obviously, dual flying jobs are very demanding. Are you working 25 days/month? Are you gone for most of the month? How do you balance your family/social life? etc..

Appreciate the inputs!

 

[SocialD]

Varies wildly depending on the squadron and whether you commute or not.  Are you going to have to commute?  I have seen squadrons that require beyond ridiculous participation such as 7 days plus a drill day....8 days is unsustainable and is NOT what we were meant to do.  I'm not even sure how they get guys to sign on for that.  When your rushing a squadron, ask what your required to work a month...anything over 5 days, RUN!  If you show up and the there are more jets on the ramp than pilots on the letter of X's....there's a reason.  I know of at least 2 squadrons currently like that and my guess is leadership at both are not friendly to the part-timer/airline guys.  My squadron requires 8 periods of availability (4 days) and most months that works...some months I find myself at the squadron 5 days.  You just have to realize that you won't always meet RAP and that's OK.  If leadership isn't cool with that, move on.    

 

I happen to be fortunate enough to live 10 minutes from the Guard and 1 hour from the airline...this is about as good as it gets.  Now that I'm on a WB, it's about as easy as it gets.  I generally work 12 days at the airline and 4-5 days at the Guard....16-17 days of work/month is very sustainable.  When I was was on the NB, I tried burning the candle at both ends, working a full month 15-17 days, plus 4-5 days at the Guard and it was unsustainable.  I was much happier when I just dropped one of my 4-day trips and did my Guard those days (16-17 days/month).  Sure it's a pay hit, but it's worth it for your sanity.  Working the Guard on top of the airlines shouldn't preclude you from having a good QOL and days off to enjoy your family and/or doing the things you do. 

 

[EvilEagle]

Definitely depends on the squadron and airframe.  "beyond ridiculous" is in the eye of the beer-holder. 

 

For our squadron we ask that they make RAP (6 sorties - so probably 5ish days) and sit a day of alert.  Some months more, some less depending on how much we are TDY. 

Definitely makes it easier to live near your ANG unit and commute to the airline IMO.  I flew the line for a year commuting from Nola to NYC and it wasn't that bad (lucky that I had a line straight away).  It can be busy though when you are junior and have low density trips with the airline.  Also depends a bit on how you bid.  If you put all your mil leave in before the bids you will likely work more because they'll fit trips between your mil days.  If you wait till your schedule drops then decide which trip you don't want and drop it via mil leave you can control QOL.  Which one pays better will probably change after about year 2.  As always YMMV. 

[SocialD]

22 hours ago, EvilEagle said:

Definitely depends on the squadron and airframe.  "beyond ridiculous" is in the eye of the beer-holder. 

In this case, the "beer-holder" is the leadership that thinks 8 days/month is reasonable...my guess is that beer is being held after chugging a handle of jack, to make such a policy.   I don't care what airframe you're flying (we're Vipers w/ alert), that is WAY too much to expect from a DSG and is indicative of leadership who has never been part timer.  6 days/month is the absolute upper limit of reasonableness.  Personally, I think anyone how serves as SQ/CC or above should have spent a few years as a part timer...or better yet, be a current part timer.  

[EvilEagle]

I was a part timer who commuted to the airline. I disagree that 6 is the absolute upper limit. Some month require more, some could require less. I think it also has to do with the pilot and their proficiency. 

 

You are are required to maintain RAP which is 6 sorties; if you aren’t CMR you aren’t doing anything for the squadron.  If you also sit a day of alert how can you expect to work less than 6 days and get all that done? Double turning every time you fly and skipping out on the debrief is an excellent way to let your skill set atrophy to the point of being a no-load. Personally that’s not acceptable to me because I’m a fighter pilot and that’s not how we roll. As a commander, I keep a close eye on anyone min-running it to ensure they aren’t becoming dangerous in the jet and are able to keep a reasonable amount of proficiency. A 2500 hour IP can probably do it in 4-5 days a month; a 400 hour 4E likely not. 

[SocialD]

I agree with your first paragraph, I'm talking units that have a min of 7-8 days/month for every month, that's just crazy...if you want to keep pilots anyway.  You end up like the squadron that I deployed with (before airlines starting hiring), that required 9 guest help just to fulfill a combat deployment.  They also needed more guest help to man their ACA mission during the deployment.  Also, I've either sat alert for or been TDY with three other squadrons that needed guest help for ACA just to go TDY or deploy.   We have nearly as many DSGs as some of these squadrons have total, and one of them will basically hire anyone who has stepped foot near a fighter in the last 15 years.  Mind you all these squadrons live within driving distance of multiple airline gigs, so they should not have a hard time filling the LOXs.  

I agree wholeheartedly about not losing out on the debrief.  That said, there are plenty of phases (BFM/BSA/CAS/etc...) where a FtF, FpF or even a red to blue double turn are manageable while still getting a good debrief/maintaining skills.  We also don't require (though we highly encourage) our part-timers to sit alert, so that's not another day required of them.  If they choose to do so, we'll usually get them a practice scramble.  This also requires good leadership who is willing to take the "risk" of waiving/scoffing as much queep as possible while also working to remove extraneous BS for the DSGs.  When I say queep, I mean anything not directly related to flying/killing bad guys.  Example...the extent of my DTS work is emailing receipts, then next time I'm at work, I log in, do quick scan and sign the voucher.  This has been a HUGE savings wrt time wasted by our DSGs.  We also do a wing-wide day of training that knocks out all the yearly required bullshit like, green dot, cbrne, yearly CBTs, etc...  

Side bar...  Do you require guys to sit alert because you need to spread the requirement, or is it simply to keep them engaged in the mission?  Also, how do you pay guys to work 6+ days/month?  Do they have to only log one pay card/day?  That's pretty much a non-starter for our DSGs.  If only we could crack the nut of letting DSGs roll off alert into CT AND log pay cards that day.  

@Burger, suffice it to say, there are numerous views and/or requirements based on the squadron.  Any squadron I was looking into, I would want to see the scheduling policy memo and the LOXs...this will tell you A LOT.  If you're going to have to commute to either job, then I would take a good look at what you think is realistically manageable.  We once told a great dude no because his plan to work a contracting gig over 3 states away from the guard (not an airline guy) was not sustainable long term.  He got picked up elsewhere and later realized we were right...he now lives local to his guard unit and is happily full time.  

[Burger]

Thank you for the opinions y'all. Appreciate the inputs. Helps a bunch!

[ctf151]

I spoke with a guy who was a retired Hurricane Hunter. He said that if one were to go ANG fighters, you wouldn’t have the number of hours required to fly for an airline on the side until 10/15 years. Is this accurate? He said to go tanker/transport if I wanted to go airline. 

[ayz33]

18 minutes ago, ctf151 said:

I spoke with a guy who was a retired Hurricane Hunter. He said that if one were to go ANG fighters, you wouldn’t have the number of hours required to fly for an airline on the side until 10/15 years. Is this accurate? He said to go tanker/transport if I wanted to go airline. 

That's a negative, lots of fighter guys fly airlines on the side. You only need 750 hrs for an R-ATP if you're mil.

[ctf151]

5 minutes ago, ayz33 said:

That's a negative, lots of fighter guys fly airlines on the side. You only need 750 hrs for an R-ATP if you're mil.

Thanks for the quick reply. Right out of the gate? Or would one have to get a job aside from flying? 

[SocialD]

You won't get hours very fast in fighters.  After seasoning (2ish years after training is complete), many of our young guys are going to regionals to build up their total time.  

[brabus]

5 hours ago, ctf151 said:

I spoke with a guy who was a retired Hurricane Hunter. He said that if one were to go ANG fighters, you wouldn’t have the number of hours required to fly for an airline on the side until 10/15 years. Is this accurate? He said to go tanker/transport if I wanted to go airline. 

It probably will take ~10 years to get the hours airlines are looking for if you don't do the regional thing SocialD mentioned.  That said, you only have one chance to fly fighters and the rest of your life to fly large aircraft.  And that's why I completely disagree with this guy's opinion on what you should fly - lots of fighter pilots in the airlines.

[ctf151]

31 minutes ago, brabus said:

It probably will take ~10 years to get the hours airlines are looking for if you don't do the regional thing SocialD mentioned.  That said, you only have one chance to fly fighters and the rest of your life to fly large aircraft.  And that's why I completely disagree with this guy's opinion on what you should fly - lots of fighter pilots in the airlines.

Excellent points. He said other things like you have to be related to someone, I wouldn’t have much of a chance, etc. I’m starting to think he may have a friend in a heavy unit, and is trying to help him recruit.  Thanks guys!

[brabus]

Stop talking to this guy, he has no idea what he's talking about.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Fly what you want to fly. Go slay your dragons early while your younger and full of gusto. Either go fast and furious doing the fighter thang and truly enjoy it, worry about that airline gig later, or

$$$ wise - Fly Fast jets, go regionals to accumulate not only quicker, but Part 121 time which undeniably helps secure an airline gig (seniority number earlier perhaps/friends help as well), but is not required.

The mobility side runs 90% or greater real world missions on a weekly basis and trains 10% or less of their time.

Fighter gurus do their kick butt flying most of the time but maybe 10% real world (meaning actual engagements, as defined by y’all) and train 90% of the time for that close encounter/real world event/deployment preparing to save the world as we know it thankfully.

I am definitely off base on the exact percentages, but not way off as (having been privy/leading teams at the NGB/ANGRC) to how the flying hour programs were divided among units using O&M dollars annually / POM cycle. The differences between flight hours for training / RAP, etc and actual mission hours (different colors of $ per say) varies significantly on unit mission assignment at times. That being said, hours don’t accumulate like heavies as they drone for hours from A, B, C, D, etc.

You want to fly fighters, do that work and fly fast and the rest will work itself out. You will have Fighter Pilot/Airline contacts in your unit and off the reservation. All Military pilots with good record are highly sought after and the airlines sources are dwindling...