Another Guard Fighter Wannabe

[benfng]

Putting this out there to hear any advice the community may have to make my application more competitive for A-10's and other pointy nose aircraft. 

Age: 25, will be 26 when boards convene

Degree: B.A.S Public Safety GPA 3.2ish

Prior Service Air Force :4N051

AFOQT: 97/99/84/94/62

PCSM: 84 (97 at 201 hrs)

Flight hours: 50  Student Pilot

My LORs aren't from any big wigs so that has me slightly concerned. On a subjective basis I think I'm a good candidate and have some interesting life and leadership experiences thus far that could make me a reliable pilot. I'm a paramedic and have worked all over in various capacities. 

 

Also if anyone knows how the 127th at Selfrdige ANGB base handles their boards it would be greatly appreciated.

Edited April 28, 2019 by benfng

[Stoker]

Scores are good, be prepared to explain why your quantitative score is low. I think getting your PPL is key, it checks a big box for a lot of squadrons and the extra hours will do a lot for your PCSM. I wouldn't sweat the LORs, I really thinking chasing letters from generals/senators who don't really know you is a waste of time. A letter from the manager at your part time job at 7/11 that says you're a hard worker, dedicated, etc., is gonna be worth a lot more.

[benfng]

16 hours ago, Stoker said:

Scores are good, be prepared to explain why your quantitative score is low. I think getting your PPL is key, it checks a big box for a lot of squadrons and the extra hours will do a lot for your PCSM. I wouldn't sweat the LORs, I really thinking chasing letters from generals/senators who don't really know you is a waste of time. A letter from the manager at your part time job at 7/11 that says you're a hard worker, dedicated, etc., is gonna be worth a lot more.

Appreciate the response. I figured to PPL was gonna be the kicker. On that topic would it be beneficial to pursue my instrument and commercial? While I would prefer the AF to train me from the ground up I have the funds and time to pursue the rest of my ratings. As far as the quantitative scores go what would be a good reason? Math certainly isn't my strong suit but I know it is required for pilots on a daily basis. 

[benfng]

Are any current or former pilots willing to look over my completed package via pm? With deadlines approaching in the next month or so it never hurts to have a second set of eyes look it over. Especially one from within the community. 

[FDNYOldGuy]

I'm just getting ready to start UPT and got in with a Reserves heavy squadron, so I'm not sure I'm going to have the fighter game down very well and I'm not a pilot on a hiring board, but I can look over your packet for ya if you just want a different set of eyes. I did manage to get myself picked up at 36 with no prior service and worse scores than you've got, so I reckon my packet wasn't terrible.

If you want me to take a look, just PM me on here with your info and I'll get to it when I can. I'm in the middle of moving into my house and have my family coming down on Sunday, so it might take me a few days to get to it.

[Squawk7600]

Low Quantitative score....checked that box but hey it was good enough to pass. Haven’t done any math like that since college 10 years ago and didn’t study due to I had to take the test ASAP to get my scores back in time to apply before the deadline.  I have no clue what my PCSM score would be , I currently hold an ATP with 3,900 hours. 

[N730]

On 5/17/2019 at 3:22 PM, FDNYOldGuy said:

I'm just getting ready to start UPT and got in with a Reserves heavy squadron, so I'm not sure I'm going to have the fighter game down very well and I'm not a pilot on a hiring board, but I can look over your packet for ya if you just want a different set of eyes. I did manage to get myself picked up at 36 with no prior service and worse scores than you've got, so I reckon my packet wasn't terrible.

If you want me to take a look, just PM me on here with your info and I'll get to it when I can. I'm in the middle of moving into my house and have my family coming down on Sunday, so it might take me a few days to get to it.

@benfng take him up on this offer! He helped me work on my packet, specifically me cover letter, and I got hired.

He may provide some insight that I missed when I looked at your stuff. So take any offers that show up!

[Squawk7600]

Saw on another post in Base ops , where a guy had a decent amount of flight time and someone replied that would probably hurt him due to the fact It’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks . Well I have an ATP with 3900 hrs , think the Air Guard is still interested ?


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[BR_MIST]

I have similar question. Is anyone willing to pick apart my application?

AGE: 21

AFOQT: Pilot: 81 Nav:68 Acad: 76 Verbal: 92 Quat: 53

LOR: Civil Air Patrol Commander, Army two star (ret), College Prof.

GPA: 3.75 (History B.A.)

20/15 vision 

Ratings: ASEL, AMEL, ASES, IA, CFI, CFII, AGI, 310hrs TT (working as a CFI now)

Two years post college working

CAP Billy Mitchell Cadet

I'm currently applying to both MNANG units and Active Duty in the event neither of those work out. Two of the three apps are already in. I'm just waiting for the last unit to open.

Whats holes do people see here that I should be ready to address in an interview?

 

Thanks

[LNGH]

BR_MIST I haven't even taken the AFOQT yet (Friday) but from talking with some pilots at a couple units here's what I notice:

Low Nav and Quat scores, I know technically it's pilot that really matters but they'll likely want to know why you struggled in those sections. 

Do you really know the Army two star or is it just someone you managed to pull a LOR from? I don't ask to be mean, just because I find myself in a similar position of could get a LOR from a former adjutant general in the state I'm pushing hardest for but I don't really know him well. The advice I've received from multiple people involved in the process is don't, its better to find someone that knows you well. Just something to think about. If you really do know them than that's great, should look really good.

Any sports, clubs, hobbies, volunteering? Before and after graduating. Team sports look really good (direct from hiring POC) and I'm guessing it will look even better if you're involved post graduation, since it's generally more difficult to get involved after than before.

Any performance reviews from work? Be ready to answer questions on learning/how to learn especially as a CFI.

[BR_MIST]

The General is a good family friend. Plenty of connection. Low Nav and Quant scores are because I misread a couple of the questions on the math section of the AFOQT. Still inside of 6 months so nothing I can do about that now. A lot of that type of math I haven't done since high school. Plenty involved in extra curricular activities and planning committees in college. Nursing home volunteering, helped organize neighborhood Ultimate games many times. Not many organized sports just because I didn't go to public high school and I focused heavily on academics in college (cranked out a four year degree in one year after high school). Lot's of Civil Air Patrol stuff (squadron and wing leadership positions) for about 4 years in high school.  

 

Good luck on the AFOQT. Definitely don't neglect that published study guide.  You applying to Guard units or Active?

[LNGH]

That all sounds good man. I would be surprised if you didn't get an interview for heavies, though your pilot score may be a little low for fighters. Rush and that will help a lot. Maybe see if you can't join something between now and interview time. Or don't depending on how close it is, wouldn't want to jump in just to jump back out. I'd say 4 months out or more, but what do I know.

Thanks, I'll go back over it. Table reading has me spooked but if it's the same table on the published AFOQT/TBAS site it wont be an issue. If it's not I'm worried. The rest I'm not too worried about. I'm applying guard for fighters only and maybe a couple of reserve bases, if nothing then next year expand to A-10s, then failing that AD or Guard heavies, haven't decided.

[BR_MIST]

Guard fighters are way different than active I hear. I know a guy who has all 90's, PPC over 100 hrs, has reenlisted at the unit (we're in the same unit), and is finishing doctorate and STILL wasn't selected. 

The table is NOT the same as on the website. Similar but not the same. 

Be aware that it never hurts to apply to heavies. There isn't bad flying job in the Air Force. Fighter guys don't get very many hours. Apply to everything and see what you can get. I talked to a base colonel (Guard F-16s). He has like 3000 hrs in the jet and he said he's probably one of the last 3000 hr fighter the force would ever make just because the costs are SO high now. 

I wonder what EvilEagle would have to say about all this.

[LNGH]

Oof that table reading could be trouble then. I know Guard fighters is about as competitive as it gets but all I've ever wanted was fighters and it's a "guaranteed" fighter seat so that's what I'm pushing. I'm anxious to fly period but I'm going to do everything I can to make sure it's fighters. Are you Duluth or downtown?

[BR_MIST]

Ya fighter slots are tough in the guard. Duluth unit. Are you rated yet?

 

[LNGH]

Not military. Just a lowly PPL, HP and Complex. Should have IFR before I apply anywhere. Is Duluth doing a board this year?

[BR_MIST]

No idea. Nothing has come out yet. They hired a ton of new guys last year so they only go for already typed guys.

[LNGH]

Unfortunate for those of us off the street guys but not surprising. 

[elvis]

15 hours ago, BR_MIST said:

Guard fighters are way different than active I hear. I know a guy who has all 90's, PPC over 100 hrs, has reenlisted at the unit (we're in the same unit), and is finishing doctorate and STILL wasn't selected. 

The table is NOT the same as on the website. Similar but not the same. 

Be aware that it never hurts to apply to heavies. There isn't bad flying job in the Air Force. Fighter guys don't get very many hours. Apply to everything and see what you can get. I talked to a base colonel (Guard F-16s). He has like 3000 hrs in the jet and he said he's probably one of the last 3000 hr fighter the force would ever make just because the costs are SO high now. 

I wonder what EvilEagle would have to say about all this.

Guard fighters are insanely competitive, but a big factor is they have to like you. You can be a freaking rockstar on paper, get all the interviews in the world and never get selected for a slot. If you're willing to go for active duty, do it. There's a high amount of slots being given out from what I've read. Get to UPT, bust your ass and you have a good chance at your fighter. 

[LNGH]

There's other factors pushing me towards the guard but if I'm approaching my late 20s and haven't had any success with that route I'll definitely be looking seriously into the active duty route.

[N730]

On 5/28/2019 at 9:37 AM, BR_MIST said:

I have similar question. Is anyone willing to pick apart my application?

AGE: 21

AFOQT: Pilot: 81 Nav:68 Acad: 76 Verbal: 92 Quat: 53

LOR: Civil Air Patrol Commander, Army two star (ret), College Prof.

GPA: 3.75 (History B.A.)

20/15 vision 

Ratings: ASEL, AMEL, ASES, IA, CFI, CFII, AGI, 310hrs TT (working as a CFI now)

Two years post college working

CAP Billy Mitchell Cadet

I'm currently applying to both MNANG units and Active Duty in the event neither of those work out. Two of the three apps are already in. I'm just waiting for the last unit to open.

Whats holes do people see here that I should be ready to address in an interview?

 

Thanks

It'd be best to start your own "What are My Chances?" Thread. But in response, it is hard to answer you exactly without your PCSM too. Otherwise, you look pretty competitive. From what I've seen, some units care more than others about the lower AFOQT scores. Also, I would open it up to units outside of MN. Shotgun the app to every unit with an aircraft you're interested in.

 

@LNGH I disagree with @BR_MIST about applying for heavies. If you are open to everything, but just think fighters could be fun, sure, apply to heavies. But if you are dead set on fighters and reasonably competitive, stick to what focusing on fighters. The heavies are awesome aircraft with great missions, but if you aren't interested in the mission, it'll show in your packet and interview. Some peop

Also, remember that you are not competing with rated guys when you apply. They have separate boards, so if you see a UPT opening, rated guys are inelible for the position.

[BR_MIST]

Oh sorry. PCSM was 82. I will start my own thread if that's your suggestion. 

The two other units I looked at were Madison WI and Anchorage AK. The reason for the unit selection is family close by. Those two units both hired two years out though. That's more of a wait than I want. Active Duty I don't really view as a negative either. If it makes sense, I WANT to go active but if there's the chance I can get a guard job then that would also be sweet. 

[BR_MIST]

15 hours ago, elvis said:

Guard fighters are insanely competitive, but a big factor is they have to like you. You can be a freaking rockstar on paper, get all the interviews in the world and never get selected for a slot. If you're willing to go for active duty, do it. There's a high amount of slots being given out from what I've read. Get to UPT, bust your ass and you have a good chance at your fighter. 

Ya that's what I hear too. Kind of a delicate selection process.

[brabus]

On 5/21/2019 at 5:48 PM, Squawk7600 said:

Saw on another post in Base ops , where a guy had a decent amount of flight time and someone replied that would probably hurt him due to the fact It’s hard to teach an old dog new tricks . Well I have an ATP with 3900 hrs , think the Air Guard is still interested ?


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I see no problem with a lot of hours. I may question if your hours do not align with where you should be progression wise (i.e. if you have 4K at a regional but aren’t a captain...why?) In my UPT class we had 4 1k+ guys; two did great and 2 did terrible. The terrible ones were solely due to attitude, not their experience level (which I suppose ironically is what drove their bad attitudes).

[benfng]

Quick update for timeline tracking:

Now 26, obtained my PPL, PCSM of 88 now inching towards a 92. Was able to finish my degree with a 3.3 overall.  I have applied to 5 units, 3 of which were fighters and have not been offered an interview yet. I really think rushing units is the key, and so I am planning to makes some serious changes for the fall, in order to complete an instrument cert and rush units for the spring hiring season. 

For those in the same boat, keep on keeping on.