Aerial Firefighting

[fire4effect]

I can't imagine the structural inspections required to make sure these things stay airworthy.

 

[arg]

4 hours ago, fire4effect said:

I can't imagine the structural inspections required to make sure these things stay airworthy.

 

Would hope they're inspected more often.

Low level and airdrop is basically what it is, very hard on the wings. Wonder if the civilian Herks get what started out as the SOF center wing box. Now called enhanced center wing, most Js come factory equipped.

Leo Sullivan(Chief test pilot at Lockheed for many years) once said at Hurbie "The only thing worse than bouncing around in the mountains at 250kts is flying around in circles shooting guns out the side"

 

 

[Shaft34]

Our maintainers at McClellan do a thorough inspection of the aircraft during the off season. Recently the state has installed a load monitoring sensor kit which should help find any issues early. I believe the Fed Contract tankers have been  mandated to have a similar system for a number of years since the two wing failure incidents in 2002. I'm not sure of the specifics though.

The state operated S-2s have the advantage of being designed from the start to operate entirely in the low altitude and carrier environment, so they are massively overbuilt. Also, The E and G models we fly now were all built in the '62 to '67 period and usually served only 5 years or so operationally before being parked at DM. That being said, they have been in use as air tankers for about 20 years now, so there are issues that pop up, but the state has been good about tackling those issues as they arise since they value the capability the S-2 brings in their model of wildland fire fighting.

The S-2 has been the backbone of Californias tanker fleet since the mid 1970s, first with the radial S-2As and now with the converted turbine S-2Ts. Prior to that the mainstay was the TBM Avenger and a mix of Fed large tankers (DC-4, C-119, B-17, PB4Y, etc)

[DirkDiggler]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:28 PM, Shaft34 said:

The California Fire Pilots Association (CFPA) has created an updated website with much more information than previously available. Some of which is the path to a career in fire aviation. Here is a link to the careers page:

Careers | California Fire Pilots Association (calfirepilots.com)

Also, this season a couple of our pilots participated in an episode of the Pilot to Pilot podcast. There is a wealth of knowledge for anyone interested in the topic.

CalFire- Fighting Wild Fires by Air by Pilot to Pilot - Aviation Podcast (anchor.fm)

 

Here's a badass photo of my fellow Columbia Air Attack Base tanker pilot Ken, saving some structures near Clear Lake last summer...

Fucking awesome pic.  If a military member was interested in this as a career post military retirement, how early would you recommend starting the app and networking process?

[fire4effect]

21 hours ago, Shaft34 said:

That being said, they have been in use as air tankers for about 20 years now, so there are issues that pop up, but the state has been good about tackling those issues as they arise since they value the capability the S-2 brings in their model of wildland fire fighting.

The S-2 has been the backbone of Californias tanker fleet since the mid 1970s, first with the radial S-2As and now with the converted turbine S-2Ts. Prior to that the mainstay was the TBM Avenger and a mix of Fed large tankers (DC-4, C-119, B-17, PB4Y, etc)

What's the typical turn time for water drops? I realize it depends on the distance to/from the fire but what's normal?

[Shaft34]

On 12/13/2021 at 2:28 PM, DirkDiggler said:

ing awesome pic.  If a military member was interested in this as a career post military retirement, how early would you recommend starting the app and networking process?

It’s never too early to start. There are several different options for work in the industry, such as being a Fed Lead Plane or Smokejumper pilot, Large Air Tanker companies, SEATs, and Air Attack. Flying for CalFire is just one part of this industry and honestly doesn’t work for everyone.

When I retired early (15 years) I worked for a Pt 135 company flying Air Attack and charter for 3 years before I got on with CalFire. I learned a lot during those 3 years doing Air Attack about where I wanted to be long term.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Shaft34

[HuggyU2]

Shaft is the only person I know that got to "real world drop live" on his old AFB.  Pretty cool.  

I tee'd it up for Beale Public Affairs to run a good story on it... but nothing was ever done.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by HuggyU2

[Shaft34]

10 hours ago, fire4effect said:

What's the typical turn time for water drops? I realize it depends on the distance to/from the fire but what's normal?

It varies from 10 min turns to up to an hour or more depending on how far the incident is from the nearest base. In the S-2, the basic pilot math is 1/3 the distance in minutes each way, so 30 miles away is 10 min or about 25 min turns including ground time. For state incidents, it's usually no more than 30 min due to the location of our bases, but for federal incidents the times can go way up if they are remote. Especially anything on the east side of the Sierras (i.e. Owens Valley) since we have to cross the Sierras for each trip.

We had a couple fast moving fires within 5 miles of the base this year where it was straight up 10 min turn arounds including the 3 minutes to load. Think I did 19 drops in about 3.5 on the Hobbs. We had five S-2s on the first fire and pounded the shit out of it that afternoon. Next day, same thing on the second fire. Kept them both to reasonable size and they were done by the morning. We prefer to keep them under 10 acres, but sometimes that's just not in the cards, so beating them in one day with minimal structure loss is a win too.

Now, the Scooper aircraft that use lakes can have extremely short turns if there's a useable water body nearby. But that's another subject...

This pic is the first fire after only 20-25 minutes after initial report...explosive to say the least. Terrain and up canyon winds were fueling it. We held it on the ridge to the left and stopped it in the small valley center-right of the pic. View is basically from downwind leg at the airport. It's a fun and rewarding job when you get to make an impact and see results!

Edited December 15, 2021 by Shaft34

[HuggyU2]

Shaft,

If allowed, you should post some more pics... assuming you have them. 

[slc]

Shaft

Is Coulson Air a powerhouse in the community? 

[Shaft34]

15 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Shaft,

If allowed, you should post some more pics... assuming you have them. 

The CFPA has an Instagram account with some great pics and videos...

CFPA (@californiafirepilotsassoc) • Instagram photos and videos

[Shaft34]

3 hours ago, slc said:

Shaft

Is Coulson Air a powerhouse in the community? 

They are definitely a big player in the industry and seem to be making a lot of moves in both fixed wing and rotary wing areas. The main large air tanker companies in no particular order are Coulson (C-130 & 737), Neptune (BAE-146), AeroFlite (RJ-85 & Scoopers), Erickson (MD-87), Bridger (Scoopers), and 10 Tanker (DC-10). There is also Airstrike with the P-3s and AirSpray possibly with a BAE 146, but both were in active this past season and I don't know their future status. 

Honestly, I'm a bit pigeon holed in my small CalFire world, so don't feel especially qualified to talk about the specifics of the other tanker outfits. Work with them on fires and meet people at bases during a big fire, but don't really have too much interaction outside of that. I've met several former mil pilots working in the industry and some might be lurking here, so they would be a better resource for specifics.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Shaft34

[Shaft34]

Something to distract from the political discussions…

https://fireaviation.com/2022/08/28/cal-fire-attaches-video-camera-to-air-tanker/

Mounted a GoPro to the bottom of my tanker this week and got a little fire yesterday to test it out. Just a short clip, but captures the essence of our Initial Attack mission here at CalFire. Direct and timely action to save structures and possibly lives!

Edited August 29, 2022 by Shaft34

[ClearedHot]

I love this airplane, looks like it would be a blast to fly.  Fills the tanks with 11,000lbs of water in 12 seconds...amazing

Cheers to all who are out there hacking this mish.

 

[Biff_T]

18 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

I love this airplane, looks like it would be a blast to fly.  Fills the tanks with 11,000lbs of water in 12 seconds...amazing

Cheers to all who are out there hacking this mish.

 

That 4 ship departure was pretty cool!

 

Edit:  After watching it again, they did a 4 ship touch and go.  Even better!

Edited August 29, 2022 by Biff_T
Noticed more goodness

[HuggyU2]

The camera doesn't really give the full impact... but Shaft says they drop at 125'- 150' AGL. 

[brabus]

I wish they paid better, because it does look like a great job from the mission/flying aspect. Also, why aren’t there a bunch of ANG units doing this? Seems like that’s the perfect setup for a unit to do no-shit state missions, which is in theory a big reason the guard exists.

Edited September 2, 2022 by brabus

[RegularJoe]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

I wish they paid better, because it does look like a great job from the mission/flying aspect. Also, why aren’t there a bunch of ANG units doing this? Seems like that’s the perfect setup for a unit to do no-shit state missions, which is in theory a big reason the guard exists.

Just before fire season started there were 14 C130 here for training, flew for a week everyone got certified.  I counted 8 different tails. So I think ANG is involved but based on what's here currently we have 4 water bombers, ba146, dc9, dash8 and an Aussie 737 so it would seem ANG is more backup or local area deterrent.

[EvilEagle]

Thread revival

 

Anyone have experience with or know anyone at Billings Flying Service?

[skibum]

I've worked with them before -- seemed like a good group of people. Didn't experience any crazies, but it was a few years ago.

[kaputt]

On 12/13/2021 at 2:03 PM, Shaft34 said:

Our maintainers at McClellan do a thorough inspection of the aircraft during the off season. Recently the state has installed a load monitoring sensor kit which should help find any issues early. I believe the Fed Contract tankers have been  mandated to have a similar system for a number of years since the two wing failure incidents in 2002. I'm not sure of the specifics though.

The state operated S-2s have the advantage of being designed from the start to operate entirely in the low altitude and carrier environment, so they are massively overbuilt. Also, The E and G models we fly now were all built in the '62 to '67 period and usually served only 5 years or so operationally before being parked at DM. That being said, they have been in use as air tankers for about 20 years now, so there are issues that pop up, but the state has been good about tackling those issues as they arise since they value the capability the S-2 brings in their model of wildland fire fighting.

The S-2 has been the backbone of Californias tanker fleet since the mid 1970s, first with the radial S-2As and now with the converted turbine S-2Ts. Prior to that the mainstay was the TBM Avenger and a mix of Fed large tankers (DC-4, C-119, B-17, PB4Y, etc)

Has there been any thought on a future replacement of the S-2? 

[Shaft34]

2 hours ago, kaputt said:

Has there been any thought on a future replacement of the S-2? 

Not that I’m privy to or have heard about. It might be a topic with the higher up management, but they are pretty invested in the S-2 at this time. The 7 C-130s will supplement the S-2s once they get tanked.

The S-2 fills a rather unique roll  and I’m not sure if there is a comparable airframe out there. Either smaller and slower like a SEAT, or larger with a bigger footprint (2 crew, etc) like a Dash 8. Several of our bases are tight space wise and have short (4,000’) runways with DA issues. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Shaft34

[kaputt]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:10 PM, Shaft34 said:

Not that I’m privy to or have heard about. It might be a topic with the higher up management, but they are pretty invested in the S-2 at this time. The 7 C-130s will supplement the S-2s once they get tanked.

The S-2 fills a rather unique roll  and I’m not sure if there is a comparable airframe out there. Either smaller and slower like a SEAT, or larger with a bigger footprint (2 crew, etc) like a Dash 8. Several of our bases are tight space wise and have short (4,000’) runways with DA issues. 

Makes sense, appreciate the response. Yeah from my unaffiliated point of view it seemed there’s nothing that could be a direct replacement. 
 

Saw them a few times out at HMT when I was living and flying in SoCal. The OV-10 was always one I’d love to get some stick time in too. 

[Shaft34]

Coulson 737 Fireliner crashed in Western Australia yesterday during ops on a fire. Miraculously, both pilots survived with minor injuries. I know one of the pilots from being around the industry the past several years, so I’m especially glad it turned out this way, all things considered. 
 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-07/wa-boeing-737-plane-crash/101939554

Edited February 8, 2023 by Shaft34
Added photos

[HuggyU2]

Shaft, looks like that jet was a former Southwest Airlines jet. 
 

Id like to hear the story firsthand from these guys.