O-4/O-5 career path

[Bigred]

All of the talk in the PRF/promotion thread about MyVector, etc, made me start wondering about jobs at the O-4/O-5 level.  I’m getting nearer to my switch over to the AF and I’m trying to get some clarity on what I can expect as I don’t have access to anything in MyVector, etc.

For SA, I’m switching over to fly the 135, and my first set of orders will have me with a squadron flying like normal. After that, what options exist? For comparison, in the Navy after a senior O-4 tour with a squadron, if you don’t make squadron command there’s an almost zero percent chance of ever flyingp again.

From what I understand, there’s a higher likelihood of flying in the Air Force as a non-command O-5, and I have to imagine that if I don’t pick up O-5 that I’ll have greater flexibility in  staying in the cockpit. That said, I’m not naive about how the machine works and I know non-flying jobs are a possibility as well. 

It’s a broad question but I appreciate any gouge on what I can expect. 

EDIT. To focus any input, what do I do to stay in the cockpit for the rest of my career? Can I volunteer to stay in a normal ops squadron? Go to an OSS and augment as a ‘guest flyer’?

Edited May 1, 2019 by Bigred

[pawnman]

48 minutes ago, Bigred said:

All of the talk in the PRF/promotion thread about MyVector, etc, made me start wondering about jobs at the O-4/O-5 level.  I’m getting nearer to my switch over to the AF and I’m trying to get some clarity on what I can expect as I don’t have access to anything in MyVector, etc.

For SA, I’m switching over to fly the 135, and my first set of orders will have me with a squadron flying like normal. After that, what options exist? For comparison, in the Navy after a senior O-4 tour with a squadron, if you don’t make squadron command there’s an almost zero percent chance of ever flyingp again.

From what I understand, there’s a higher likelihood of flying in the Air Force as a non-command O-5, and I have to imagine that if I don’t pick up O-5 that I’ll have greater flexibility in  staying in the cockpit. That said, I’m not naive about how the machine works and I know non-flying jobs are a possibility as well. 

It’s a broad question but I appreciate any gouge on what I can expect. 

I'm currently in an IG job where I fly with the FTU.  It's a pretty good gig - make your own hours, as many or as few TDYs as you want, I have an entire staff of SNCOs, and it's way better to be on the evaluator side of base-wide exercises.  Plus, lots of face time with the WG/CC if you're looking for a DP or a strong promotion push.

Edited May 1, 2019 by pawnman

[Tommy]

I’d say you have good odds to be able to stay in the cockpit as a KC135 driver. The reason I say this is bc the 135 is undermanned currently, the AF supposedly wants more tanker squadrons and the kc135 has the lowest retention rates in the MAF (mobility AF). Just one mans opinion. And realize the only constant is change so who knows what tomorrow will bring. 

With that said after flying for 12 years I was offered staff. I feel like I could have asked to stay in the cockpit BUT I’d probably been given the leftovers... whatever that may be... KC-135 to Altus or T-6 to Laughlin.  

Regarding your EDIT. Volunteering to be in the OSS wouldn’t help you stay in the cockpit longer IMO. When you are stationed somewhere they send X people to the OSS, X at the Group and X at the Wing at any given time and you typically get a new job every year or so and it could be anywhere in the wing. Not sure what you could do to stay in the cockpit longer besides asking your functional for another flying assignment. And hoping it works. But someone else may have a better answer.  

Edited May 1, 2019 by Lifer

[Right Seat Driver]

As Lifer pointed out, the 135 is undermanned and we’re supposedly plussing up on jets and crews. The AFPC 135 functional briefed at a few bases that if you want to keep flying forever, have that conversation with your Sq/CC. Flying forever may mean Altus or UPT, but gone are the days of the rigid path of two ops assignments followed by staff. At least in the 135. I have a few bros who’ve min-turned their staff assignments to get back to the jet. It also helps if you can work an in-house re-qual versus taking a slot at the FTU post staff. RUMINT is the 135 bonus take-rate is below 16.9%.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[NKAWTG]

All good info above, but understand truth has a date-time stamp associated with it.  Valid insight today could be useless a year from now.  There are some trends I think will hold though.  The 135 community was the piggy bank AFPC robbed to fill UPT and RPA billets.  HPOs did crossflow or early MAJCOM staff.  Everyone else who slogged through two tanker assignments got assigned to Altus and 7 day opt'd or plan to separate after 2 years. 

Long story short, the experienced pilots around the 10 to 17 year mark are gone, and not coming back.  They need them at the squadron level, and if want to stay operational, you should be able to.  Making O-5 in that environment will still be tough.  The MAF does not care about breath of experience unless it comes from one of their boarded programs.  CAF guys will get promoted ahead of MAF guys.  Airlift will get promoted ahead of 135s.  You would need to make your peace with retiring as a Major, and being first in line for any 6 month non flying deployment that drops.     

[di1630]

I think it’ll be community specific and based off manning. If you want to fly and there is a shortage in your community/ at your base, just be honest about your flying/career goals.

Generally the price for promotion is to give up flying. Vice versa, flying a lot will hurt your long term promotion viability.

In the Fighter world currently, a non-HPO O-5 can fly as much as a Capt if they want to and stay proficient in squadron needs because we are undermanned.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Bigred]

Going AD, heading to join the boys out in Mildenhall. 

[war007afa]

6 hours ago, Right Seat Driver said:

As Lifer pointed out, the 135 is undermanned and we’re supposedly plussing up on jets and crews. The AFPC 135 functional briefed at a few bases that if you want to keep flying forever, have that conversation with your Sq/CC. Flying forever may mean Altus or UPT, but gone are the days of the rigid path of two ops assignments followed by staff. At least in the 135. I have a few bros who’ve min-turned their staff assignments to get back to the jet. It also helps if you can work an in-house re-qual versus taking a slot at the FTU post staff. RUMINT is the 135 bonus take-rate is below 16.9%.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

So the solution to the manning situation is to prohibit dudes who want to from staying in the cockpit? Genius! We’ll have this thing fixed in no time at all! 🤬

[Sua Sponte]

14 hours ago, Bigred said:

Going AD, heading to join the boys out in Mildenhall. 

Sq/CC there is awesome.

[BADFNZ]

In my community, staying in the cockpit as an O-5 is very doable, but they're constantly getting blasted with AMD deployments.  Our wing gets a handful of O-5 billeted staff deployments every year and our leadership refuses to send any O-5 that's a CC or DO, so the few O-5s in the wing that are not on the command path get them every time. 

[IDALPHA]

2 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

In my community, staying in the cockpit as an O-5 is very doable, but they're constantly getting blasted with AMD deployments.  Our wing gets a handful of O-5 billeted staff deployments every year and our leadership refuses to send any O-5 that's a CC or DO, so the few O-5s in the wing that are not on the command path get them every time. 

This belongs in the “What’s Wrong” thread.

Yet again, another great reason to steer clear of ACSC so you’re not tagged for PowerPoint  deployments as a “leader”....

[Shazaam]

1 minute ago, IDALPHA said:

This belongs in the “What’s Wrong” thread.

Yet again, another great reason to steer clear of ACSC so you’re not tagged for PowerPoint  deployments as a “leader”....

All the officers automatically promoted to O-4 will be the next to have the deer in the headlights look. Rolls downhill if an O-5 can't do it.

[Bigred]

3 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

In my community, staying in the cockpit as an O-5 is very doable, but they're constantly getting blasted with AMD deployments.  Our wing gets a handful of O-5 billeted staff deployments every year and our leadership refuses to send any O-5 that's a CC or DO, so the few O-5s in the wing that are not on the command path get them every time. 

AMD deployment? Reading between the lines, it sounds super awesome...

[nunya]

2 hours ago, Bigred said:

AMD deployment? Reading between the lines, it sounds super awesome...

It stands for Airline Manpower Delivery. They're really good at their job.

[IDALPHA]

6 hours ago, Shazaam said:

All the officers automatically promoted to O-4 will be the next to have the deer in the headlights look. Rolls downhill if an O-5 can't do it.

Yup, it’ll be the O-4 that completed his ACSC and took the bonus. The  “Real Go Getter.”

[pawnman]

6 minutes ago, IDALPHA said:

Yup, it’ll be the O-4 that completed his ACSC and took the bonus. The  “Real Go Getter.”

Well, shit.

[Right Seat Driver]

On 5/1/2019 at 5:23 PM, war007afa said:

So the solution to the manning situation is to prohibit dudes who want to from staying in the cockpit? Genius! We’ll have this thing fixed in no time at all! 🤬

Yeah, the way the AF manages assignments is mind-blowing. We lost a bunch of IPs with the 2014 VSP and overnight our IP numbers went to shit. So, AFPC starts scrambling to fill IP slots in the 135 only to send the the IPs that are still flying the jet to UPT or staff...only to keep running low on IPs.

[SurelySerious]

1 hour ago, Right Seat Driver said:

Yeah, the way the AF manages assignments is mind-blowing. We lost a bunch of IPs with the 2014 VSP and overnight our IP numbers went to shit. So, AFPC starts scrambling to fill IP slots in the 135 only to send the the IPs that are still flying the jet to UPT or staff...only to keep running low on IPs.

The AF has a talent management problem because it continually refuses to distinguish between talents. Standby for everyone wears OCPs.