The new NGB RUTA policy...

[Duck]

Found out something totally ridiculous. If you have been in AROWS lately pushing through AFTPs you will notice that you can now push 24 in a quarter.

I was trying to figure out why 8 of my AFTPs didn’t get paid even though they had been completely approved through my OG/CC. Went by finance and was told that it had been rejected by the pay system and we still have to open CMS cases to go past the 16 allowed under the old reg.

Seriously, WTF?


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[nunya]

Similar thing happened in 2015/16 when they changed a policy “in our favor” but didn’t fix the underlying systems.  I was the guy trying to un-f it for the unit.  Took months.

[Gazmo]

Found out something totally ridiculous. If you have been in AROWS lately pushing through AFTPs you will notice that you can now push 24 in a quarter.

I was trying to figure out why 8 of my AFTPs didn’t get paid even though they had been completely approved through my OG/CC. Went by finance and was told that it had been rejected by the pay system and we still have to open CMS cases to go past the 16 allowed under the old reg.

Seriously, WTF?


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Yep. CMS case for every one of them past 16. I can't wait until the last hoop I jump through is the one that leads me out the door for the last time.

With RUTA's, my unit makes us fill out the good old paper RUTA request (which we sign by hand) which gets left in a binder later to be approved by the CC. Then, the admin takes that and inputs the request into AROWS, which then requires us to go into AROWS at some point in time to sign the request electronically so it can be processed for pay. If you have a CAC reader at home and keep it in the front of your brain to keep checking it when you are not at the unit, great. If not, you will eventually figure out (if you are tracking it), that you didn't get paid for said RUTA and figure out that it is because it has been sitting in limbo waiting for your signature in AROWS. You can't make this stuff up.

[SocialD]

10 hours ago, Duck said:

Found out something totally ridiculous. If you have been in AROWS lately pushing through AFTPs you will notice that you can now push 24 in a quarter.

I was trying to figure out why 8 of my AFTPs didn’t get paid even though they had been completely approved through my OG/CC. Went by finance and was told that it had been rejected by the pay system and we still have to open CMS cases to go past the 16 allowed under the old reg.

Seriously, WTF?

 

It's actually worse than that.  Last week I had an extensive talk about this with one of our finance chicks  (who is actually damn good at her job).  You can't process more than 16/qtr or 48/yr through AROWS.  Once you hit those system limits, you have to open a CMS case for these to be paid out.  Catch is, these CMS cases can only be processed on the 1st and 15th of the month...you can't make this shit up!  You have to use digital 105s because apparently wet signatures are old fashioned and we must now digitally sign everything.  We have guys whose AFTPs were submitted in July that still haven't been paid. 

She also said the part timer flight pay issue is not going to be fixed because they're supposedly rolling out some new pay system in January of 2021.  We'll be lucky if that thing is operational by 2025.  I've honestly just given up trying to keep track of the flt pay and I just hope they're doing it right.

 

So to recap.

- What used to take less than a minute with a pen/105 card, is now a 15-20 minute affair (minimum).  That's if the computers are running good AND "the network" isn't down that day.  

- For some fucking odd reason we can no longer process our own UTA cards.

- Additional AFTPs, while nice, have created a fuckton of extra work.

- Flight pay is still a rusty coat hanger abortion and will be until Jan of 2021...checks in the mail.

- Last week I spent pay cards just to unfuck all my rejected AFTPs.  Ha, getting paid to get paid!

- In my 18 years in the ANG, damn near every new "advancement," has made life harder on the DSG.

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by SocialD

[SocialD]

Update: Another gotcha.  Once your extra AFTPs are submitted via a CMS case, they can not process additional AFTPs until the previous CMS case is routed AND paid.  One of our guys was paid this week for AFTPs that were submitted 1Sep.

[EvilEagle]

Me and a couple of the other Eagle squadron commanders went up to NGB back in May.  This was one of the topics we talked about.  Let me be upfront:  I'm not saying it's good/right/excused/etc - just stating the facts here.  

 

The DFAS system is being overhauled, rollout scheduled for FY21.  They aren't putting any additional money into the current one for modifications or updates.  The current DFAS system has the AFTP limits hard coded into it, the new one will be able to adapt to changes in AFI's. (allegedly)  

 

We talked to the people who wrote the changes and asked why the changes were the way they are, this is what they told us.  I guess you can say at least there is a reason other than someone just crossing their arms, stomping their feet and saying "NO! NO! NO!".  (which is how I picture most things going down (STS) when we ask the staff to fix things for the field)

[SocialD]

3 hours ago, EvilEagle said:

The DFAS system is being overhauled, rollout scheduled for FY21.  They aren't putting any additional money into the current one for modifications or updates.  

This is exactly what was echoed by our finance chick.  Not surprising, especially since it doesn't impact those who sit up on the staff (sts) or at DFAS.  We work for them, they don't work for us...

 

3 hours ago, EvilEagle said:

We talked to the people who wrote the changes and asked why the changes were the way they are, this is what they told us.  I guess you can say at least there is a reason other than someone just crossing their arms, stomping their feet and saying "NO! NO! NO!".  (which is how I picture most things going down (STS) when we ask the staff to fix things for the field)

Seriously, thanks for the words.  Did they give a reason why we can no longer control our own UTAs?  Zero system limitations on this...one day we could could process our own UTAs, the next day we could not.  When I could process my own UTAs, I never had a problem getting paid. 

 

At the end of the day, the job of the full time force (something I once was) is to ensure the part time force is trained and ready to go when we're needed.  When I'm spending one of my limited work days just trying to get paid, they're seriously failing.  Honestly, I used to bend over backwards to get the mission done, but when I see them just say fuck it, deal with it...I'm done with throwing them a bone.  You're going to make it harder on me, fine...but don't be surprised when I blow a pay card just to get paid, or you see me not make RAP because I spent one the few days you have me, just trying to get paid.   

[EvilEagle]

As the pilot force shifts from mostly full time to mostly part time it's just going to get worse unless they fix these types of things.  I couldn't agree with you more; how do you stay motivated when it's a hassle to get paid - and what you are getting paid is less than you can make at your other job which is easier and the pay system works?  Only the government could conceive something so FUBAR.  

 

What specifically is the issue with UTA's?  We haven't had issues with them, so I may not have known to ask about it.  

[Gazmo]

As the pilot force shifts from mostly full time to mostly part time it's just going to get worse unless they fix these types of things.  I couldn't agree with you more; how do you stay motivated when it's a hassle to get paid - and what you are getting paid is less than you can make at your other job which is easier and the pay system works?  Only the government could conceive something so FUBAR.  
 
What specifically is the issue with UTA's?  We haven't had issues with them, so I may not have known to ask about it.  

The issue is they are bean counting and robbing Peter to pay Paul. Every Guardsman gets 48 UTA's, but if you are on orders at home station and present for UTA (AT/MPA/Alert, ect.) you lose those RUTA's. If you are deployed, TDY or excused, you keep them. Lots of us managed to bank quite a few pay periods to have a "RUTApalooza" at the end of the FY. Looks like a lot more people will be "excused" from UTA now. The downside is the SQ/CC or whoever has the privilege to approve RUTA's in your unit has become an admin and everyone is doing double the work. The big-boy program is gone.

[SocialD]

14 hours ago, EvilEagle said:

What specifically is the issue with UTA's?  We haven't had issues with them, so I may not have known to ask about it.  

Ya, I can't remember when the change happened, it may have been after your visit.  At the most basic level, the issue is we no longer have the ability to log our own UTAs in AROWS.  For the average Guardsman who are not pilots and only show up to drill every month, it's not a bid deal.  But for us pilots who show up 4-5 days/month and not always on drill weekend, it's a royal pain to log/track.  It used to be that I could log in and certify a UTA and that was it.  Now I have to log into my email the admin folks when I made up X drill.  They then have to go into AROWS and input that card.  I then have to log back in and get into AROWS and sign it.  Throw in the fact that for the part-timers it seems like every time we log in, we have to wait on some other update or for the email to "connect to the server" (if the network isn't down that day) and/or the admin guy being off work that day...it's often weeks later that you'll finally get back to sign that card. 

[Gazmo]

For years I resisted a CAC reader at home. Especially as a full-timer. The last thing I wanted as a full-timer in a non-leadership position was the ability to work from home. However, now as a DSG, I like it and I've gotten over the fear that the government's going to look at my porn. My unit does have a telecommute policy so there are certain things we can do at home and get paid for it. It's only about a 30 minute drive into the Squadron for me but the ability to login real quick to check some email or make a quick revision to a DTS voucher (for the 3rd time) or sign some AROWS stuff from home even if I'm not getting paid for it is worth more to me than driving my ass in, which these days tends to just put me in a bad mood whenever I walk through the door. So.... I'd rather just do the quick stuff at home well I'm on reserve with the company. Whatever the case may be, it's all just turning into one big pile of suck.

 

 

[SocialD]

Update.  I was finally paid out for some of the additional AFTPs, but for some reason they did not take any TSP contributions as I have setup in mypay.  It sounds others have experienced the same issue.  Given that it's the end of the the year, I'm trying to max my TSP, and this was quite a few AFTPs, it's a big hit to my savings goals.  Going to try yet another CMS case to try to get this straightened out.  It shouldn't be this hard to just get the shit right! 

 

When is that new pay system scheduled to roll out again?  Yay, for another year plus of dealing with fucked up pay.  It honestly seems as if they're purposely trying to make life harder on the part-timer.  

 

[Duck]

I’m 2 months in and still have like 16 AFTPs that haven’t paid out. New finance system to roll out in FY2021...


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[SocialD]

Another thing we've found is that, on the additional AFTPs, we're all being taxed between 38% and 49%.  You can't make this shit up.  I'm expecting their response to be "you'll just get it back with your taxes..."  

[gearhog]

42 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Another thing we've found is that, on the additional AFTPs, we're all being taxed between 38% and 49%.  You can't make this shit up.  I'm expecting their response to be "you'll just get it back with your taxes..."  

Is this a policy or a mistake?

Or both?

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, SocialD said:

Another thing we've found is that, on the additional AFTPs, we're all being taxed between 38% and 49%.  You can't make this shit up.  I'm expecting their response to be "you'll just get it back with your taxes..."  

Well, if this thread has done anything, its making me feel better about staying active duty instead of moving to the guard or reserve.

[SocialD]

52 minutes ago, torqued said:

Is this a policy or a mistake?

Or both?

Incompetence at best...at worse, indifference.  We've already been brushed off with respect to the flight pay fiasco.  We've been told it will be fixed when the new pay system rolls out in Jan 2021.  So with that, I expect the answer to be that we'll get it back with our taxes.

Honestly, unknown.  The OG is taking this one on, so I haven't sent any flaming arrows towards finance.  It has already been sent up the chain and guys are still being taxed at an extremely high rate and no TSP is being taken out, or that we'll have to do a CMS case.  Some of the guys have just given up on them until this whole process gets unfucked.  I mean, I appreciate the extra pay but it shouldn't be this difficult. 

 

21 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Well, if this thread has done anything, its making me feel better about staying active duty instead of moving to the guard or reserve.

These are for additional pay cards we didn't have before.  As with most things in the military, the rollout has been a rusty coat hanger abortion.  It pisses me off because it continues with the trend of making life harder on the part-timer.  It's almost as if they're intentionally trying to make it harder for guys to be part time.  But hey, they've made it such a PITA that I pretty much have to blow a pay card or two just to get paid.  Lol...getting paid to get paid.  Life is still pretty damn good in the ANG, but I'm seriously looking forward to the day I have 3 years time-in-grade.

Edited December 6, 2019 by SocialD

[gearhog]

15 hours ago, SocialD said:

Incompetence at best...at worse, indifference... I'm seriously looking forward to the day I have 3 years time-in-grade.

I just hit 3 year O5 TIG. The next day I did the few outprocessing checklist items that I figured would keep me out of trouble and called it good.
I definitely miss the fellas, but I have never felt more free and less stressed. I was worried I’d have regrets, now I think I waited too long. (22 yrs.)

I’m only a curious spectator now. Not my monkeys, not my circus anymore.

Edited December 7, 2019 by torqued

[SocialD]

On 12/7/2019 at 10:13 AM, torqued said:

I just hit 3 year O5 TIG. The next day I did the few outprocessing checklist items that I figured would keep me out of trouble and called it good.
I definitely miss the fellas, but I have never felt more free and less stressed. I was worried I’d have regrets, now I think I waited too long. (22 yrs.)

Congrats on your retirement.  Your comments are echoed by all the recently retired guys I fly with.  I know I'll miss the camaraderie, but not all the extra shit.

 

On 12/7/2019 at 10:13 AM, torqued said:

I’m only a curious spectator now. Not my monkeys, not my circus anymore.

A fitting description to what it's all become.  My recent attempt to get a new CAC is a great metaphor for what it's all become.  It's too long to type out here and if it weren't so sad, it would be comical.  

 

[nunya]

5 hours ago, SocialD said:

new CAC

You mean the little thing in the wallets of a couple million people that routinely expires and therefore the renewal process should be mind-numbingly polished and painless? 

Makes perfect sense, then. BTW, I would pay a like to read the cliff notes version.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Made some life long friends, some Grand memories and proud to have served. As Black Rifle Coffee Company dude titled his book: Thank You for MY Service!

After reading these latest monkey mounting pig skin scenarios, very fortunate to be retired and enjoying the Freedom our forefathers, my fellow peers and current rank holders provide/provided. 

Nice looking inside from the outside for once as a fully retired card holder.

2 Rules: Leave at the Top of Your Game AND Never stay at the party too Loooong....

Keep Up The Good Fight!

Edited January 3, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747