Information on PCS/moves/moving (DITY, TMO, DLA, storage)

[HossHarris]

Another rule pertaining to DITY moves changed not too long ago. You are ENTITLED to 90 days of temporary storage for your DITY move weight. In the past, TMO just reimbursed the actual cost of this storage. The change is now TMO MUST reimburse you 90% (or whatever the standard DITY rate is) of what it would cost the AF to store that weight. It's a significant chunk o money. You have to actually have a paid storage area, but the difference in the rate b/w 3 months at the u-store-it joint and what the AF pays movers to warehouse stuff is HUGE.

[Flare]

Thread revival!

Q5: Can I receive more than one DLA payment in the same year?

Answer: DLA payment limitations are based on a fiscal year. Ordinarily members are entitled to only one DLA payment per fiscal year. However, there are some exceptions. For more information, please see JFTR, par. U5620. If you still have questions please contact your local finance office.

I went to the reg and looked at this, but I'm still not sure about it (that reg isn't pilot-proof!) Does anyone here have any experience with getting multiple DLAs in the same year? We're moving to Luke in 4 weeks and then moving from there next year, but it will most likely be in the same FY.

Much thanks in advance!

[SCRIMP]

From what I understand if you are in a training pipeline then you can get it multiple times. Another possibility is to get a waiver signed for either a full or partial DLA. Also, if you know you are going to be making a smaller move (less expensive) then ask for a partial DLA and then get a full DLA on your next move. I will be able to give complete details on this by the end of the week.

[Whitman]

By the regs (to lazy to look it up) you ARE authorized more than 1 DLA within the same FY. However, it is at a reduced rate. For instance, say a 2Lt gets assigned to Whiting for UPT and 8 months later is PCSing to Vance for phase III. That butterbar would receive 1350 the first time and 1083 the second time.

The full chart effective Jan 07 can be found here:

https://secureapp2.hqda.pentagon.mil/perdie...-2007-01-01.pdf

[MacGyver]

I've spent a ton of time deciphering this lately: All sited from JFTR Chapter 5, part G https://dodtravelregs.hqda.pentagon.mil/pro...e.htm?view=main

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U5620 FISCAL YEAR LIMITATION ON PAYMENT OF DLA

Effective 20 June 2005

A. General. Under 37 USC §407, members are authorized only one DLA during a fiscal year, unless the:

2. Member is on PCS to, from, or between courses conducted, controlled and managed by one or more of the Services;

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So this says, you can get paid DLA more than once per fiscal year, if you're moving around for UPT. The guideline on when can you get PCS vs TDY is 20 weeks (although I know this has been an issue also) so PCS for training more than 20 weeks....you get DLA.

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And, U5630-B6 says when you get the secondary rate:

6. Orders Amended, Modified, Canceled, or Revoked. When a PCS order is amended, modified, canceled, or revoked to direct the member to return to the station from which transferred, a DLA is payable if the member and/or dependents actually move from the place of residence before the date the order is amended, modified, canceled, or revoked. If a member and/or dependents actually move from the place of residence ICW a PCS order and complete a move to a new location and then that PCS order is amended, modified, canceled, or revoked to either direct the member to return to the old station or to direct the member to a different new PDS, then a DLA is payable ICW each move. No more than two DLAs are authorized by this paragraph. NOTE: In this situation only, the amount of the second DLA paid is taken from Table U5G-2. Par. U5630 does not authorize more than one DLA for dependents who move twice under the authority in par. U5222-C3a.

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So the fact that all of the PCS moves are a result of amended orders during the same fiscal year, means secondary DLA rate.

[Finance_Guy]

If you would like to contribute you can just reply on this thread;

A JFTR update effective 25 Sep authorizes payment of 20 cents a mile on PCS regardless of the number of dependents (or no dependents). Travel must begin on or after 25 Sep. See attached PDF for the official change.

Keep up with all JFTR changes here: JFTR Changes

MAP73_07E_CAP60_07E.pdf

[TheInner]

Thanks to some poor planning/bad luck my wife and I are PCSing overseas soon and she is pregnant. As of now our RNLTD is her due date and we can't leave any earlier than 30 days prior due to some training that as of now cannot be moved. She has been told by her doctors that she can't travel inside of 45 days. Has anybody ever had to deal with this or know someone who has? One option I am trying to explore, i.e. I have no idea if its even feasible is having her travel overseas to the new location prior to me. I know that the AF allows you to request a change of dates by +/- 6 weeks but I am not sure this is still feasible since my RIPs have been turned in. Any reasonable advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[SPiF]

Thanks to some poor planning/bad luck my wife and I are PCSing overseas soon and she is pregnant. As of now our RNLTD is her due date and we can't leave any earlier than 30 days prior due to some training that as of now cannot be moved. She has been told by her doctors that she can't travel inside of 45 days. Has anybody ever had to deal with this or know someone who has? One option I am trying to explore, i.e. I have no idea if its even feasible is having her travel overseas to the new location prior to me. I know that the AF allows you to request a change of dates by +/- 6 weeks but I am not sure this is still feasible since my RIPs have been turned in. Any reasonable advice would be appreciated. Thanks

You should be able to get your rip changed still, if you contact your MPF.

I know a guy whose wife was due right before he PCSd to Germany, and his wife had to stay behind. Also, if I remember correctly, infants under 3mos usually can't fly internationally.

Oh, and he got convalescent leave right around the time his kid was born to fly home, be there for 2-3 weeks, and fly back to Germany and await their arrival.

FWIW.

[HerkDerka]

Talk to the MPF and your CC. You should have no trouble getting an RNLTD extension.

HD

[afnav]

My wife and I had orders to Germany when she was very pregnant. She would have had to stay behind to have the kid by herself. Turns out my orders were switched to Omaha and we came up here three months early to take advantage of "modern medicine".

If they can spot any problems with the kid in utero, it could kill your orders if they won't have treatment available for your child. It could also turn your 2-year long into a short tour.

I'm sure you can probably get an extension, but the sympathy vote has dramatically declined in value since OIF. A lot of guys are not around to see their kids born anymore.

Good advice from the above posts.

[Guest Sparky]

I don't think there is an age restriction on flying infants...but you will have to wait to get the baby's passport, I'd expect at least 6 weeks for that. Anyone know what the current wait time is?

approx 10 business days with an expedited package. Wing CC can authorize the extra cost for these things, the passport rep at the MPF will know how to accomplish it.

[rafiki]

"A member can claim the weight of a personal utility trailer, one time, if it fits the following criteria:

The trailer must be used to transport motorcycle, jet-ski, boat, or snowmobile

Can not be longer than 12 feet from hitch to rear

Can not be wider than 8 feet from outside wheel to outside wheel

Side rails can not be taller than 28 inches

Drop down tail gate (if attached) can not be taller than 4 feet

This utility trailer must have a single axle

This utility trailer can not be enclosed

You must provide a stand alone weight ticket of the utility trailer

You must provide utility trailer registration for proof of ownership.

No exceptions."

I'll PCS in March and I'm being told the same thing by TMO; That I can't claim the weight of my 7x10 utility trailer because it is enclosed. Does anybody know of an AFI that backs the above quote?

Thanks

[TopperHarley]

From what I've seen, they are starting to get anal about paying for the weight of personally owned trailers. They really don't do a good job of briefing what they'll pay for in the TMO brief. My buddy bought a 6X12 enclosed tandem axle thinking he would get paid the full weight. Upon reaching Columbus for UPT, he found out he could not claim trailer weight due to rules mentioned above. Yet no one briefs any of this beforehand. I would personally love it if someone found a reg stating otherwise since I've got a 7X16 tandem axle trailer that weighs about 2100 lbs I would LOVE to get paid to pull when I move to Dover in June.

[Vetter]

This is from the AF Move site found here:

A member who uses a personally owned utility trailer for an authorized personally procured move may include the weight of the utility trailer in the total weight. The utility trailer weight applies one time only if the trailer is used as the means of conveyance.

Such a trailer includes any authorized trailer (other than a camper trailer travel trailer, or horse trailer) that a commercial carrier could legally accept and transport as household goods.

The member or member’s dependent must own the trailer prior to the effective date of the PCS or TDY order.

It says the weight may be added the first time the move was made with the trailer. It doesn't say anything about not allowing an enclosed trailer. Still looking for the regs on it. I'm going to TMO next weeks, so I'll get the gouge from them.

[pawnman]

Have not seen this question asked or tucked in another post...How do they figure your per diem when you take leave en route? For example, I get $99/day and my wife gets $74.25/day. I'm PCSing from Beale AFB to Columbus AFB, however I'll drive from CA to SD in 2 days, then be on leave for 3 weeks, then drive from SD to MS. I get 7 days from CA to MS. When I file my voucher I'll probably only have 4 days total driving time. Will I still get $173 for all 7 days?

Nubby

I don't believe you get paid for leave days. The Air Force doesn't pay for your road trips on vacation, why would they pay for this one?

Finance Guy may have a better answer, but to the best of my knowledge, you'll get per diem for the "authorized travel days" and nothing else.

On the topic of weighing things...we went really overboard when we moved. Took out the floormats, the jack, the spare tire, the kid's car seat...anything that wasn't bolted to the car came out before we weighed it "empty".

[Finance_Guy]

I don't believe you get paid for leave days. The Air Force doesn't pay for your road trips on vacation, why would they pay for this one?

Finance Guy may have a better answer, but to the best of my knowledge, you'll get per diem for the "authorized travel days" and nothing else.

On the topic of weighing things...we went really overboard when we moved. Took out the floormats, the jack, the spare tire, the kid's car seat...anything that wasn't bolted to the car came out before we weighed it "empty".

Your response was from a 2006 post so not sure if you are asking the question again.

Here's how PCS travel works when driving. You are not required to show leave stops on a PCS move when driving the entire trip. In the case presented for 7 days of travel. If you left Beale on 1 Dec and arrived Columbus on 15 Dec, that's what you show on the voucher--mode of travel as PA. Finance looks at the entire days shown and will give credit for the 7 days of travel regardless of how many days actually were used. On the otherhand, if you show leaving 1 Dec and arriving 5 Dec, finance can only give you credit for 5 days.

There's nothing in the reg that I know of that states finance must get into a day by day analysis of whether the traveler was actually traveling or on leave.

On the comment of weighing things...how much extra did you receive for the floormats, spare tire and etc? A whole $5 or so? I guess one could consider these un-attached items as personal property? That would be a TMO call though.

[Herk Driver]

I'll PCS in March and I'm being told the same thing by TMO; That I can't claim the weight of my 7x10 utility trailer because it is enclosed. Does anybody know of an AFI that backs the above quote?

Thanks

"Such a trailer includes any authorized trailer (other than a camper trailer travel trailer, or horse trailer) that a commercial carrier could legally accept and transport as household goods."

The above quote, from the AF Move website which is quoted a couple posts above is probably where they will claim this comes from. I'm not sure that a moving company is going to 'legally accept and transport as household goods' a 7 x 10 enclosed trailer.

The other question I have is when they say ' The utility trailer weight applies one time only if the trailer is used as the means of conveyance', I'm guessing that means that the trailer weight will only be paid once for the life of the trailer? Or am I reading that wrong? So, if I buy a trailer and move my stuff and sell the trailer, then go out and buy another one before the next move, they'll pay the trailer weight once each move? WTFO?

I know a guy who moved overseas and towed his trailer to a "designated location" (parents house) and was paid for the move. Sounds like this $1B PCS budget shortfall is getting Big Blue to stop reimbursing a few things.

[Finance_Guy]

The other question I have is when they say ' The utility trailer weight applies one time only if the trailer is used as the means of conveyance', I'm guessing that means that the trailer weight will only be paid once for the life of the trailer?

From my past experience of interpretation of the regs, I would suspect they are clarifying a limitation in case you use the same trailer to go back and move more HHGs. In that case they wouldn't allow you to use the weight of the trailer twice for that same PCS move. Remember, DITYs are used for local moves as well, so one might think they could load it up, take their stuff a few miles down the road, unload, then come back for another load. Some may try to claim the trailer weight twice, or even three times.

I'm sure this is only a limitation per PCS move which leads me to think a separate PCS move years later would allow you to claim the weight on that move since one would be under separate orders and be allowed an entire new weight allowance.

Just my thoughts from a finance perspective. The TMO folks are the OPR on this one.

[rafiki]

Looking throught the JFTR's, I came across this regarding what could be accounted for in the household goods weight:

HOUSEHOLD GOODS (HHG). Items (except those listed in 2 and 3) associated with the home and all personal effects (see NOTE 1) belonging to a member and dependents on the effective date (see NOTE 2) of the member's PCS or TDY order that legally may be accepted and transported by an authorized commercial transporter.

NOTE 1: See par. U5310-E for articles involving weight additives.

NOTE 2: HHG acquired after the effective date of the order but before entering an IPCOT may be shipped when par. U5370-I1b or U5370-I2 applies.

A. HHG also include:

1. PBP&E needed and not needed for the performance of official duties at the next or a later destination. PBP&E that are needed are not calculated in the member’s weight

allowance and therefore must be weighed separately and identified on the origin inventory as PBP&E.;

2. Spare POV parts (see the definition in this Appendix) and a pickup tailgate when removed;

Change 252

A1-15 12/1/07

3. Integral or attached vehicle parts that must be removed due to their high vulnerability to pilferage or damage (e.g., seats, tops, winch, spare tires, portable auxiliary gasoline

can(s), CD players, GPS systems, and miscellaneous associated hardware);

4. Consumable goods for members ordered to locations listed in Appendix F;

5. A vehicle other than a POV (such as a motorcycle, moped, hang glider, golf cart or snowmobile (and/or the associated trailer));

6. A boat or personal watercraft (e.g., a jet ski) 14 or more feet (and/or the associated trailer); and

7. Ultralight vehicles (defined in 14 CFR §103 as being single occupant; for recreation or sport purposes; weighing less than 155 pounds if un-powered or less than 254 pounds if

powered; having a fuel capacity NTE 5 gallons; airspeed NTE 55 knots; and power-off stall speed NTE 24 knots).

8. A utility trailer, with or without a tilt bed, with a single axle, and an overall length of no more than 12 feet (from rear to trailer hitch), and no wider than 8 feet (outside tire to

outside tire). Side rails/body no higher than 28 inches (unless detachable) and ramp/gate for the utility trailer no higher than 4 feet (unless detachable).

Source: JFTR VOL I (UNIFORMED SERVICE MEMBERS) \ 2008 \ JAN 2008 JFTR \ App A (JFTR) - Def&Acronyms \ PART I: TERMS

So it looks like Bluto's motorcycle trailer is all good, as long as it has a motorcycle in it, but my general purpose enclosed utility trailer isn't. Too bad I don't have a moped to throw in it and make it a trailer for my moped....

Thanks

Edited December 30, 2007 by rafiki

[Herk Driver]

From my past experience of interpretation of the regs, I would suspect they are clarifying a limitation in case you use the same trailer to go back and move more HHGs. In that case they wouldn't allow you to use the weight of the trailer twice for that same PCS move. Remember, DITYs are used for local moves as well, so one might think they could load it up, take their stuff a few miles down the road, unload, then come back for another load. Some may try to claim the trailer weight twice, or even three times.

I'm sure this is only a limitation per PCS move which leads me to think a separate PCS move years later would allow you to claim the weight on that move since one would be under separate orders and be allowed an entire new weight allowance.

Just my thoughts from a finance perspective. The TMO folks are the OPR on this one.

That sounds reasonable. I think you are probably correct and from the post by rafiki, it looks as though they have changed the rules on what constitutes a trailer that can be claimed. I, too, have claimed the weight of a personally owned trailer on more than one move and now it appears that I will be eating that weight when I move. Oh, well. I can always sell it.

[Bluto]

Looking throught the JFTR's, I came across this regarding what could be accounted for in the household goods weight:

HOUSEHOLD GOODS (HHG). Items (except those listed in 2 and 3) associated with the home and all personal effects (see NOTE 1) belonging to a member and dependents on the effective date (see NOTE 2) of the member's PCS or TDY order that legally may be accepted and transported by an authorized commercial transporter.

NOTE 1: See par. U5310-E for articles involving weight additives.

NOTE 2: HHG acquired after the effective date of the order but before entering an IPCOT may be shipped when par. U5370-I1b or U5370-I2 applies.

A. HHG also include:

1. PBP&E needed and not needed for the performance of official duties at the next or a later destination. PBP&E that are needed are not calculated in the member’s weight

allowance and therefore must be weighed separately and identified on the origin inventory as PBP&E.;

2. Spare POV parts (see the definition in this Appendix) and a pickup tailgate when removed;

Change 252

A1-15 12/1/07

3. Integral or attached vehicle parts that must be removed due to their high vulnerability to pilferage or damage (e.g., seats, tops, winch, spare tires, portable auxiliary gasoline

can(s), CD players, GPS systems, and miscellaneous associated hardware);

4. Consumable goods for members ordered to locations listed in Appendix F;

5. A vehicle other than a POV (such as a motorcycle, moped, hang glider, golf cart or snowmobile (and/or the associated trailer));

6. A boat or personal watercraft (e.g., a jet ski) 14 or more feet (and/or the associated trailer); and

7. Ultralight vehicles (defined in 14 CFR §103 as being single occupant; for recreation or sport purposes; weighing less than 155 pounds if un-powered or less than 254 pounds if

powered; having a fuel capacity NTE 5 gallons; airspeed NTE 55 knots; and power-off stall speed NTE 24 knots).

8. A utility trailer, with or without a tilt bed, with a single axle, and an overall length of no more than 12 feet (from rear to trailer hitch), and no wider than 8 feet (outside tire to

outside tire). Side rails/body no higher than 28 inches (unless detachable) and ramp/gate for the utility trailer no higher than 4 feet (unless detachable).

Source: JFTR VOL I (UNIFORMED SERVICE MEMBERS) \ 2008 \ JAN 2008 JFTR \ App A (JFTR) - Def&Acronyms \ PART I: TERMS

So it looks like Bluto's motorcycle trailer is all good, as long as it has a motorcycle in it, but my general purpose enclosed utility trailer isn't. Too bad I don't have a moped to throw in it and make it a trailer for my moped....

Thanks

I don't think it's good anymore because my new trailer is still enclosed even though it's rather small (#8 states body no higher than 28 inches). However #5 states associated trailer and it's clearly a motorcycle trailer so maybe they'll count the weight. I can't put anything else in it other than a few bags around the bike. Anyways I just looked at the weight and it's only 650 lbs so how much are we talking anyways?

[HossHarris]

I think those trailer limitations are if you are having the gov't ship your HHG (including the trailer). I don't think that applies to a trailer that you use to DITY your own stuff.

"...that legally may be accepted and transported by an authorized commercial transporter ..."

BTW, a boat counts as HHG. So buy one before you move and drag it along. The weight counts for your DITY and you'll pay for the boat in a move or two. And the going rate the gov't get charged to store 6-9 thousand pounds of HHG boat is gigantic, and you get 90% of that as well. And don't let the TMO monkeys tell you they don't have to pay for boat storage, or partial storage of HHG, or storage after you buy a house. That's all crap. Bust out a JFTR on them and elevate as necessary. Even if they are trying to "save money" becuase there's a "war on" by screwing you out of your congressionally mandated ENTITLEMENTS

Edited December 31, 2007 by HossHarris

[Herk Driver]

I think those trailer limitations are if you are having the gov't ship your HHG (including the trailer). I don't think that applies to a trailer that you use to DITY your own stuff.

"...that legally may be accepted and transported by an authorized commercial transporter ..."

I don't know about that. The Gov't ships x lbs of Household Goods. You are asking them to include the weight of a trailer as household goods. They have re-defined household goods to basically cover only the things that a common carrier would haul for you. That's the definition that was posted earlier.

See this:

D. Transportation of Unauthorized Articles. Non-HHG articles (see “HHG” definition in Appendix A) must be transported apart from authorized HHG. The member should arrange for separate transportation. When non-HHG articles are disclosed, the member is financially responsible for all identifiable transportation costs for the articles. If the transportation cost of the articles cannot be established, the weight of the non-HHG articles is excess weight and the transportation cost is computed under par. U5340-B.

I don't like this anymore than anyone else, but it appears that they have eliminated the reimbursement for enclosed trailers. Only time will tell.

[TopperHarley]

I don't like this anymore than anyone else, but it appears that they have eliminated the reimbursement for enclosed trailers. Only time will tell.

Yeah, I don't like it either. But if that's the rule, then that's the rule. As nice as it would be to get the 2100 lbs of trailer weight, it was still worth my buying my 7x16 based on the 5000 lbs I can put in it. It'll pay for itself plus some in one move, and all profit in the next. Plus, there are certain items that I just wouldn't trust with movers that I can now move myself (gun safe, motorcycle, etc.).

The part that pisses me off about this though is that TMO does such a poor job explaining the reg. This is a fairly new rule and they don't tell you anything about it in your TMO brief. Like I mentioned earlier, my buddy down at Columbus didn't find out about it 'till he tried to turn his weight ticket in. You'd think they'd tell you what you can claim as weight when you say you're doing a DITY with your own trailer.

Edited December 31, 2007 by TopperHarley

[Vetter]

Now here's a question...can I use the the cost of a 6x12' trailer I bought to move my stuff as an expense associated with the move so I can get less taxes taken out at the end?