Information on PCS/moves/moving (DITY, TMO, DLA, storage)

[brabus]

Thanks for the help. Also, do you know where in the JTFRs it says what is tax deductible? I searched all over them and couldn't find anything. I'm just wondering what receipts I should keep and turn in to get the tax deduction. Thanks.

[Herk Driver]

Thanks for the help. Also, do you know where in the JTFRs it says what is tax deductible? I searched all over them and couldn't find anything. I'm just wondering what receipts I should keep and turn in to get the tax deduction. Thanks.

You mean the items that will reduce the taxable amount? If so, IIRC, rental vehicle, fuel, oil, tolls, costs of weight tickets are all used to reduce the taxable amount. I think the costs of any boxes/ paper, etc are as well. I'm sure I've forgotten something. I've always had a TMO provided worksheet to track those expenses. It has all the categories listed.

[Finance_Guy]

You mean the items that will reduce the taxable amount? If so, IIRC, rental vehicle, fuel, oil, tolls, costs of weight tickets are all used to reduce the taxable amount. I think the costs of any boxes/ paper, etc are as well. I'm sure I've forgotten something. I've always had a TMO provided worksheet to track those expenses. It has all the categories listed.

HD is right, but double check IRS Form 3903--the deductions all come from the IRS code. Pretty much all expenses to move your HHGs from point A to B can be deducted. There is one area that can get sticky. The 3903 allows you to deduct actual costs of gas/oil OR mileage at 19 cents. The problem is you also are paid mileage on your regular PCS travel voucher. So if you were reimbursed mileage on the regular PCS voucher (as matched to the IRS allowance), then you should not claim a deduction on the DITY move voucher. If you went ahead and claimed the gas/oil, you would also have to report the income received off your regular PCS travel voucher. You could claim gas/oil costs that exceeded your mileage reimbursement on the travel voucher.

Key statement from the IRS website: You cannot deduct any moving expenses that were reimbursed by your employer.

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc455.html

[ColoradoAviator]

Question about moving on short notice...

I finished primary at Whiting this week with a follow-on assignment to Vance for advanced (phase 3). One of the other students got hurt and now I'm tapped to fill his class date. The problem is that my RNLTD is 8 Apr 09 which is less than a month away. Our MPF won't have my orders cut for at least another week. I have a military clause in my lease that states that I need to give 30 days' prior notice with a copy of my orders to break my lease. Unfortunately, I won't have orders in-hand for at least another week perhaps longer. My landlord won't budge on this issue and insists that we stick to the letter-of-the-lease.

Am I going to get stuck paying an extra month's rent due to this short-notice move? Do I have any recourse with either my squadron/MPF or my landlord?

Edited March 13, 2009 by ColoradoAviator

[XL0901]

Question about moving on short notice...

I finished primary at Whiting this week with a follow-on assignment to Vance for advanced (phase 3). One of the other students got hurt and now I'm tapped to fill his class date. The problem is that my RNLTD is 8 Apr 09 which is less than a month away. Our MPF won't have my orders cut for at least another week. I have a military clause in my lease that states that I need to give 30 days' prior notice with a copy of my orders to break my lease. Unfortunately, I won't have orders in-hand for at least another week perhaps longer. My landlord won't budge on this issue and insists that we stick to the letter-of-the-lease.

Am I going to get stuck paying an extra month's rent due to this short-notice move? Do I have any recourse with either my squadron/MPF or my landlord?

Ask MPF (or whoever is cutting your order) to draw up a MFR in lieu of orders for you. People move/go TDY all the time without orders and as long as they have this in hand it makes no difference. It should work for your landlord to. If not go to Jag followed by the housing office. I'm not saying to threaten your landlord but if push comes to shove maybe inform them that if you have to go to JAG and housing it could be bad for them and could be "Blackballed" by the base.

Hope that made sense/helps. Bottom line, DO NOT let the landlord win and pay another month. Those clauses are there for this very reason.

[Guest EN_GRAD]

If you are doing a partial-DITY, can you still be reimbursed for putting your DITY-moved household goods into storage even if you ALSO have your government-moved household goods put into storage?

If so, is the 90 day storage reimbursement based on weight or a direct reimbursement of the storage unit cost? Any way to calculate what you might make by putting some stuff in storage on a partial-DITY? It may be worth keeping a storage unit for the full 90 days even if you only keep a few things in it.

[HossHarris]

If you are doing a partial-DITY, can you still be reimbursed for putting your DITY-moved household goods into storage even if you ALSO have your government-moved household goods put into storage?

If so, is the 90 day storage reimbursement based on weight or a direct reimbursement of the storage unit cost? Any way to calculate what you might make by putting some stuff in storage on a partial-DITY? It may be worth keeping a storage unit for the full 90 days even if you only keep a few things in it.

Partial answer, but last I moved the temp storage reimbursment was 95% of what it would COST THE GOV'T to store said weight (not your actual cost). That was a change from actual costs (2 moves ago). It made a huge difference in the actual amount of cash paid to temp store 6000 pounds of boat and trailer.

Again ... everything you need to know is in the JFTR ... worth the read!

Edited March 31, 2009 by HossHarris

[Guest flytolive]

Ok - done some searching but nothing specific to my situation came up yet although I know I'm not the only one.

PCSing from DM to OSAN here in about a month. I've got a follow on to Moody after my 1 year non-sponsored. Wife is coming along but I don't think that affects my question because I would have the same issue if I was single. I'm going to have to store my stuff somewhere while I'm gone but the thing I can't figure out (my first meeting with TMO couldn't either) is how I get my stuff to Moody.

1. If I store it here they say I have to have someone to open up my storage and supervise movers to take it to Moody in a year. That can't be me because I'm not coming back to DM - just straight PCS form OSAN to Moody. I'd rather not have to ask one of my buds to give up a day and be responsible for all my stuff.
   
2. Alternatively, I could have it moved to Moody now but I would have to have someone there to receive it and then move it into storage, again, I won't be there.
   
3. They said there was a third option to just ship it to Moody and not receive it but I don't want to know what happens in a year when I show up try to find out what they desided to do with my stuff.
   

So, anyone with some expertise/experience please chime in here. Getting a POD, doing the whole think DITY and just having that thing shipped to Moody could work too but I'm not sure what would be reimbursed out of that.

THanks!

[Guest Jollygreen]

Your TMO gave you bad info.

I went from a stateside assignment to Osan. Outbound I had a hold baggage packing/move, a storage packing/move and finally a household goods packing/move. My storage remained at my previous location, no requirement to have someone there to accept it at the warehouse.

When I finally returned to the states, after a COT even, my storage items were shipped to my new conus PCS location. No one had to be there to see it moved out of storage, only at my house to accept it when it finally arrived (which was ahead of my HHG move from Osan).

Ask someone a little more senior in TMO.

[Guest SOF HERK]

I should've put this in here. At the risk of having my post in two threads, here goes:

I'm PCS from Kirtland to Mildenhall. I'm doing a partial-DITY (personally procured move in JFTR-speak) to a designated place (just so happens to be my home of record, but that's really irrelevant for this discussion - you're allowed to move HHG to any designated place w/in the constraints of JFTR based on where you're at at the time) and wish to continue my PCS travel from my designated place to my new permanent duty station. This appears to be allowed in JFTR U5120-G, but my TMO is refusing to let me do it. They're saying I'm going there for my convenience, so I have to make my own way to their port (FWIW, my designated place is Miami, FL and their port is JFK, NY - the contract carrier offers a GSA city pair fare from MIA to LON). They are contending that I'm not authorized the GSA City Pair rate from MIA to LON because I'm there in leave status - when I say I'm not in leave status, I'm doing a P-DITY, they come back with the "your convenience" remark, when I tell them how inconvenient it actually is to move HHG 2000+ miles, they tell me that the gov't isn't forcing me to move my stuff there. When I tell them I could make the gov't move my stuff instead of saving them money, they then revert to 'it has nothing to do with your port call' and we go full circle.

I've reached an impasse with them. I asked them to show me where it was written that I couldn't do what I want to do & they're telling me the P-DITY to my designated place has nothing to do with my port call and port call rules. I asked for where the port call rules were and they can't (or won't) provide them. They're insisting that they can't do it, but refuse to justify it. When pressed, they claim they called JPPSO (who do property only, I thought) and some civilian there said I couldn't do it & that was good enough for them. So they're operating on word of mouth and locally developed policy.

I've sent an email to the Per Diem And Travel Allowance Committe - which sat in an inbox for 3 days before being told they were forwarding to the MAP (whoever that is - office symbol is AF/A1AP at the Pentagon). I've sent follow-up emails to the three individuals on the email from PDATAC, but so far no joy.

Bottom line in my eyes is I'm conducting authorized PCS travel to an authorized location (designated place per JFTR) and am allowed to continue my PCS travel from this location (not be required to make my own way to the port).

Any suggestions? I've been nice and pleasant and understanding as I can be (because I really don't want to piss them off), but my patience is wearing thin and I'm <3 weeks out from moving and still don't have a port call....

?????

BTW, I did EXACTLY this on my last OCONUS PCS from Hurlburt to Lyneham....it was suggested & pointed out in JFTR to me by TMO at that time.

Edited April 29, 2009 by SOF HERK

[Herk Driver]

I should've put this in here. At the risk of having my post in two threads, here goes:

Any suggestions? I've been nice and pleasant and understanding as I can be (because I really don't want to piss them off), but my patience is wearing thin and I'm <3 weeks out from moving and still don't have a port call....

I did exactly this when I moved to Europe, but my "designated location" was close to the authorized port so I didn't have a problem. But, I'll throw in my question to you. I haven't asked TMO, because I forgot about it, but do I have to put in the papers overseas to move that stuff to my next base or can I do that in the states?

Edited May 1, 2009 by Toro

[Guest SOF HERK]

I did exactly this when I moved to Europe, but my "designated location" was close to the authorized port so I didn't have a problem. But, I'll throw in my question to you. I haven't asked TMO, because I forgot about it, but do I have to put in the papers overseas to move that stuff to my next base or can I do that in the states?

Spent hours in the JFTR this afternoon - literally. I'm convinced I'm authorized to do what I'm asking to do.

For your question - What I did last time I returned from OCONUS was shipped my vehicle to the closest port and then began my DITY from there, so there was no discussion about "send me to my designated place" (I had to get my vehicle anyway) - I've not been looking at it from your angle, but I'm confident you can do that. You effectively placed your HHG into NTS at your own expense - you're authorized to get them out at gov't expense. Which end you have to do it from, I don't know - should be either I would think.

[Guest flytolive]

Your TMO gave you bad info.

I went from a stateside assignment to Osan. Outbound I had a hold baggage packing/move, a storage packing/move and finally a household goods packing/move. My storage remained at my previous location, no requirement to have someone there to accept it at the warehouse.

When I finally returned to the states, after a COT even, my storage items were shipped to my new conus PCS location. No one had to be there to see it moved out of storage, only at my house to accept it when it finally arrived (which was ahead of my HHG move from Osan).

Ask someone a little more senior in TMO.

Jollygreen - were you married at the time? That seems to be the issue I'm running into. Since I'm married, she'll be getting BAH or OSHA so the AF won't pay extra for storage. Logically it makes sence, but still seems like a real hassle to have to bring a 3rd party in the mix to store my stuff.

[Mark1]

It's been a long time since my last PCS and for some reason I thought that I wasn't eligible for dislocation allowance for my recent move so I didn't apply for it. Now post-PCS I find out that I am in fact eligible for this move. Can I apply for DLA after the fact? I'm less that a week past my report date, is it too late?

Thanks.

[Herk Driver]

It's been a long time since my last PCS and for some reason I thought that I wasn't eligible for dislocation allowance for my recent move so I didn't apply for it. Now post-PCS I find out that I am in fact eligible for this move. Can I apply for DLA after the fact? I'm less that a week past my report date, is it too late?

Thanks.

So, you arrived at your new PDS a week ago? Have you filed your PCS voucher yet? You should be claiming your DLA on that form, if I'm not mistaken. If you forgot to mark the block for DLA, go down to finance and tell them and ask to file for your DLA. You don't have to ask for DLA ahead of time or anything; you can get it advanced, but don't have to. This is easy.

[El Guapo]

I'm switching reserve squadrons from the east coast to west coast. Anyone ever done the move out of pocket? I'm not doing the U-haul thing, I'm trying to find a full-service company possibly with a military discount. I haven't hit up TMO yet but was hoping someone had some experiences to share, it's definitely going to be a pain in the ass no matter how it's done.

[Guest Sandlapper]

I'm switching reserve squadrons from the east coast to west coast. Anyone ever done the move out of pocket? I'm not doing the U-haul thing, I'm trying to find a full-service company possibly with a military discount. I haven't hit up TMO yet but was hoping someone had some experiences to share, it's definitely going to be a pain in the ass no matter how it's done.

I recommend sucking it up, renting the Budget 26' U-Drive. You can find some cheap labor on craigslist to pack & load your truck (and unload at your destination). I did exactly this for a total cost of about $2K...ended up being about 9,800lbs of stuff. A full-service move will run you about $14K for coast-to-coast for about 10,000lbs of stuff. (at least that's what TMO told me)

[Guest Blu4]

El Guapo -

Long answer, but worthwhile, I think.

Yep. Just finished dealing with this myself. Go by TMO, and tell them you are interested in a self-procured DITY move. Basically, in the past several years they've expanded the DITY move beyond the U-haul, and essentially you can now do all the work that TMO used to do, and it's still classified as a DITY move.

The beginning steps are the same, go to the JPPSO/AF Move website (https://afmove.hq.af.mil/default.asp) and get an estimate of your weight (they have online weight estimators that will get you within a thousand pounds or so, depending on how accurately you account for stuff). With that weight, you then complete the TMO paperwork.

As with any DITY, the AF will pay you 95% of what it would've cost the government to move them. You can get up to 60% of that up front. For example, I had 13K pounds of stuff, and the estimated cost to the government was $31K. The AF will thus pay me $29K to make my move, and they gave me $19K of that up front. You can then take that amount and start getting quotes from moving companies and decide if it's worth your time.

The best part about the self procured DITY is that, unlike the generic, one size fits all moving contract that the AF does with all companies, you can pick and choose where you want to spend your $$$. You still get the labor, without having to do all the work yourself. For example, instead of insuring every single item we own under the same plan, we were able to pick and choose full replacement value for our truly expensive items. In our case, since we only have a limited number of high dollar items, it was cheaper than the blanket insurance policy, and it also insured them for full replacement value, ie, what they were worth when we bought them, instead of the depreciated values that you get if you file a claim via the AF's insurance policy. We also confirmed with USAA that our renters insurance covers items en-route, so if the entire shipment were to sink/burn/get hit by a meteor, we're covered there.

So we saved some money on the insurance. We also saved money on the packing, because we were able to dictate to the movers how we wanted our stuff packed, rather than the AF's standardized move plan. In our case, since it was an overseas move, the AF standard is to crate everything, which is much more expensive. However, since we are taking up one entire moving truck anyway, the movers said there was no need, because they'll just put the whole truck on the boat/barge, and move it. And since we're going door-to-door, and there's no storage, they recommended against crating, since more stuff can actually be damaged as they try to play jenga with the crates. More money saved there.

Bottom line: the total cost of our move, with the contractor, is going to be between $15K and $17K, depending on the finalized insured items costs. We still get the full incentive payment of $29K, since that's the 95% cost of the government's expenses. So even though there is some ass pain involved in getting estimates, researching the insurance costs, tracking weight tickets, and negotiating the specifics with the contractor, I think it was worth the $12K.

Note that the incentive payment will be taxed, so plan on figuring that into your costs as well.

In the end, it was worth it for us....your mileage may vary.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Blu4

[Finance_Guy]

I'm switching reserve squadrons from the east coast to west coast. Anyone ever done the move out of pocket? I'm not doing the U-haul thing, I'm trying to find a full-service company possibly with a military discount. I haven't hit up TMO yet but was hoping someone had some experiences to share, it's definitely going to be a pain in the ass no matter how it's done.

What do you mean by "out of pocket"? Is this a funded PCS move to the new Sq? If so, why not just let TMO handle it all. but if it's due to the carriers they use, then I could maybe see a self-procured move,but if you've not been to TMO yet, how would you know what carriiers they use.

Edit to add JFTR notes on the subject:

NOTE 1: A member (or next of kin, when appropriate) who personally arranges for HHG transportation (i.e., personally moves the HHG, or arranges directly for the HHG to be moved) is entirely responsible for all issues related to the Status of Force Agreement (SOFA), use of U.S. carriers, import/export processes, tariffs, customs, etc. If Service regulations require, preference also must be given to VISA (Voluntary Inter-modal Sealift

Agreement) ship carriers when available.

NOTE 2: If a third party (e.g., a new employer) pays for the HHG transportation, no reimbursement is authorized.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Finance_Guy

[contraildash]

I understand how a true DITY move works, but not sure what's going on in my case.

PCS'ing to Ramstein. Did a partial DITY to put things in storage back home. Same deal with the 95% ect, but it was never mentioned that I'd get anything up front. I didn't know, so I couldn't ask.

So I move my stuff, come back, file the paperwork, and supposedly should have been paid within 2-3 weeks. 3 weeks later, no money. Come to find out, my paperwork never got sent to finance, the reasoning was that I had to wait until my household goods were picked up and shipped (not for another month) and only then will my DITY paperwork go through.

From my understanding, I get paid for the weight of the DITY move, not a comparison of the DITY weight to the HHG weight. I don't see why one has anything to do with the other.

I think they are jacking me around or, just don't know what the hell they are doing.

That $800 bucks would be nice to have...

[Finance_Guy]

I understand how a true DITY move works, but not sure what's going on in my case.

PCS'ing to Ramstein. Did a partial DITY to put things in storage back home. Same deal with the 95% ect, but it was never mentioned that I'd get anything up front. I didn't know, so I couldn't ask.

So I move my stuff, come back, file the paperwork, and supposedly should have been paid within 2-3 weeks. 3 weeks later, no money. Come to find out, my paperwork never got sent to finance, the reasoning was that I had to wait until my household goods were picked up and shipped (not for another month) and only then will my DITY paperwork go through.

From my understanding, I get paid for the weight of the DITY move, not a comparison of the DITY weight to the HHG weight. I don't see why one has anything to do with the other.

I think they are jacking me around or, just don't know what the hell they are doing.

That $800 bucks would be nice to have...

I would suspect they wait to pay the DITY until after your main HHGs shipment. The main reason is what if you go over your total authorized weight on the main shipment? If you do, then there would be no entitlement on the DITY. Just a thought.

[capt4fans]

I would suspect they wait to pay the DITY until after your main HHGs shipment. The main reason is what if you go over your total authorized weight on the main shipment? If you do, then there would be no entitlement on the DITY. Just a thought.

Finance Guy is 100% on the money here. If you go over your alloted HHG weight, there is no way they will pay you for a DITY. That item is briefed every time I go and do a DITY move and in 9 years with 7 moves, I have a little experience with this.

contraildish....read the full post you put out there earlier. Sorry, but didn't do that the first time. You do get paid for the DITY assuming that you are moving authorized amounts. The Gov't only pays for up to the total amount that you're authorized to move. For example, if you're authorized 12.000 and the gov't ships 10,000 and you DITY 5,000, they won't pay you for the additional 3,000 that you went over your authorized HHG weight.

Have a great weekend.

Edited July 24, 2009 by capt4fans

[afthunderchief16]

Ok, I have spent the better part of the last hour looking through the JFTR and different rules and regs regarding what you can and cannot write off and am having some difficulties finding info on whether you can write off vehicle expenses (oil changes prior to move, etc) or not. My last PCS to Randolph we were told that these kinds of expenses can be written off and my wife and I were reimbursed for them. When I went in this afternoon to the TMO office at Offutt the lady working (who really needed a throat punch to put her back in the right place and not be such a raging whore to me and my wife) told us that they are not and have not ever been reimbursable expenses. I have seen other people on here say that they are in fact reimbursable so I was hoping that somebody might have some more insight to this or where in the JFTR so I can take it back to the office and politely point it out to her if it can get me some of my expenses back

[capt4fans]

Ok, I have spent the better part of the last hour looking through the JFTR and different rules and regs regarding what you can and cannot write off and am having some difficulties finding info on whether you can write off vehicle expenses (oil changes prior to move, etc) or not. My last PCS to Randolph we were told that these kinds of expenses can be written off and my wife and I were reimbursed for them. When I went in this afternoon to the TMO office at Offutt the lady working (who really needed a throat punch to put her back in the right place and not be such a raging whore to me and my wife) told us that they are not and have not ever been reimbursable expenses. I have seen other people on here say that they are in fact reimbursable so I was hoping that somebody might have some more insight to this or where in the JFTR so I can take it back to the office and politely point it out to her if it can get me some of my expenses back

Here's the reference. You're paid for mileage on a PCS, so therefore, no oil changes.

U3335 EXPENSES NOT REIMBURSABLE WHEN MILEAGE IS PAYABLE

A member who travels by POC for the entire journey and is paid mileage may not be reimbursed for:

1. Fuel, oil, winter plug-ins, and trip insurance for travel in foreign countries; and

[Jughead]

Here's the reference. You're paid for mileage on a PCS, so therefore, no oil changes.

Thunderchief, 4Fans is correct ref PCS reimbursement.

What you may be confusing it with is DITY (or whatever the hell they're calling it now). While you can't "claim" the oil as a reimbursible expense, you can claim it as an expense (of performing the DITY), which reduces the taxable amount*. I don't know what the time window is; I also don't know if you can claim an oil *change* vs oil *added* during the trip (and I suspect it's just the latter). I usually just stick to the fuel and any repairs, since the tax benefit of a $30 oil change isn't worth the headache (to me). If you're confident enough of your debate skills w/ the IRS if they call you and have to make a "facts & circumstances" decision on whether the oil change was incident to the DITY move, you could always itemize it as an unreimbursed business expense (again, to me, not worth it).

*This is actually a better deduction than most realize, since DFAS (?) makes the deduction prior to calculating your taxable pay--essentially making it a "front page" deduction for those who itemize, and a "built-in" itemized deduction for those who do not. Still, the amounts in question usually won't be large enough to really matter (at least that's been my experience).