Information on PCS/moves/moving (DITY, TMO, DLA, storage)

[Pajaro]

JFTR U5310:

1. UB is authorized NTE 2,000 pounds (or the administrative weight limit shown in APP W,

whichever is less) for active duty members with command sponsored family member(s).

It looks like APP W does not have any European locations, so I think you are safe with 2000 lbs for your UB. Also per U5310, Max HHG for an O-4 with dependents is 17000lbs, but that includes the UB.

[so.it.goes]

Thought about making a separate post for TDY stuff, but I suppose this will do... I'm looking for information on moving/housing/pay-related items in connection with a TDY, post-UPT.

Background:

I'm a Guard guy with a family finishing-up training soon with a follow-on to Little Rock. My orders show me PCS'ing back to my unit the day after graduation, and then immediately taking the TDY trip to the Rock. I'm debating my options as far as bringing my family with me for the whole trip, or having them stay at home to job/permanent-house search while I'm in training.

First question there: If I do have them come with me to LR, will I still get paid BAH for my home of record, i.e. my unit's city, even if I don't own property there/have proof of household? We moved out of our apartment before UPT, so I currently don't have a technical "residence" back home now. My guess is that the answer is "no", so the follow-up to that would be, is it worth having them move with me to LR, and then just renting-out a cheap place back home to pocket the difference?

Next Part:

I tried to dig online for clarification for how the segments of TDY pay work so that I can know what my rental budget is off-base, and I'm not so sure my interpretation is correct. The government site shows a "Maximum reimbursable hotel amount (Lodging rate)" of $87, and a "Meals and Incidental Expenses (M&IE) rate" of $56 at Little Rock...

So, more Questions: Is it still policy to get a Non-A letter from Housing to live off-base, and does having my family with me or not make the odds of getting said letter more or less likely? Further, if I am/have to get this Non-A letter, am I entitled to rent a place up to the dollar amount of $87 x 30? That works out to $2,600+ per month, so that seems incredibly unlikely, but I can't find anything saying otherwise (although I did hear by unsubstantiated word-of-mouth that we are limited to $1,400 off-base). I have no idea where that came from. Also, if I am not afforded meals on base (which I assume I am not), do I ALSO get the full amount of $56 x 30 (~$1,600)? Those dollar amounts stack up in a hurry so I'm skeptical, but like I said, I can't find anything to the contrary.

If anyone would be able to intelligently speak to this or even just point me in the right direction to research further, I would be incredibly grateful.

Thanks...

[Fuzz]

TDY thread can be found here

Short, no bringing your family won't help you get a non-A, maybe a TLF; the AF Inns have to maintain maximum occupancy. Yes if you get a non-A your numbers check, however, for your lodging you only get what you actually pay, so don't think you can get a cheaper place and bank that remaining money. Also you have the option to just go off-base on you own and you'll be reimbursed up to the on base VOQ rate ($56/night) and on base ME/I, which nets you $1680 a month for lodging.

[so.it.goes]

TDY thread can be found here

Short, no bringing your family won't help you get a non-A, maybe a TLF; the AF Inns have to maintain maximum occupancy. Yes if you get a non-A your numbers check, however, for your lodging you only get what you actually pay, so don't think you can get a cheaper place and bank that remaining money. Also you have the option to just go off-base on you own and you'll be reimbursed up to the on base VOQ rate ($56/night) and on base ME/I, which nets you $1680 a month for lodging.

Thanks for that info. Heard from someone else that what I need isn't actually called a Non-A letter, it's a "refusal letter"... Does that sound familiar to anyone?

Also, after a few years on here, I still don't understand the search function for this site. TDY search still yields zero results for me, or I would have posted this there.

[Smokin]

If you are not planning on staying at lodging regardless, show up without reservations and hope for a non-A. Then, if you get a non-A, you're golden. If they have space available, you don't need any letter to stay off base, but you can only claim what it would have cost for you to stay on base. If you're going to be there for a few months, you should be able to find a place off base to rent for the $56/night that should be reimbursed regardless of any letter.

[Breckey]

It's in the JFTR under "refusal of gov't quarters" I actually had to show the reg reference to finance here when I PCSd in after initial qual. They initially didn't reimburse me because I didn't have a non-A and I lived off base. Always know what you're entitled to and be prepared to fight for it against dimwits.

[noumenon]

If anyone would be able to intelligently speak to this or even just point me in the right direction to research further, I would be incredibly grateful.

Thanks...

check your personal messages.

[Finance_Guy]

New CY 2014 DLA Rates attached.

SYNOPSIS: Increases the DLA rates effective 1 January 2014 based on the monthly pay raise of 1.0% IAW 37 USC §1009 and Executive Order signed by the President on 23 December 2013.

UTD MAP 245-13(I) DLA Rates 1-1-14 Revised.doc

Edited January 6, 2014 by Finance_Guy

[stract]

FG - I can't seem to get a straight answer from the local CPTS or TMO right now - I am separating, and am authorized to return to my HOR (not HOS). I have a line of accounting on my orders for Non-temporary storage, and I'm trying to figure out if I utilize the NTS option, does this void the GOVT payment to move my HHG to my HOR? I will most likely be travelling farther than my HOR to my next job and understand I will have to pay the difference, but that location is as yet an unknown quantity. So the idea is to put my stuff in NTS until I can determine where I'm going, and rent out my house.

I think, from reading U5630, that I can use NTS up to 180 days, then my goods need to be transported ASAPly to their final destination, all without additional expense incurred by me (assuming final destination is HOR). Where I would have to pay more is if HHG are not going to HOR and this cost for the GOVT exceeds the shipping cost to HOR, and/or if I extend the NTS past 180 days without getting an approved extension. True?

Edited January 6, 2014 by stract

[theat6bisasham]

I'm reading that you can go anywhere in CONUS…you get to choose. Plus 5630 says to use 5130 as the reference when doing HOR/HOS/etc calculation (greater). Anyway - my reading says anywhere you choose is your home. Hence, you could NTS it but you may need to preselect your HOS

U5130 RETIREMENT, PLACEMENT ON TDRL, DISCHARGE WITH SEVERANCE OR SEPARATION

PAY, OR INVOLUNTARY RELEASE FROM ACTIVE DUTY WITH READJUSTMENT OR

SEPARATION PAY

A. General

1. Travel to HOS Authorized. A member on active duty is authorized travel and transportation allowances to a

home selected by the member from the last PDS when the member is:

a. Retired for physical disability or placed on the TDRL (without regard to length of service);

b. Retired with pay for any other reason (including transfer to the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps

Reserve) immediately following at least 8 years of continuous active duty with no single break therein of

more than 90 days ( B-160488, 14 February 1967);

c. Separated with severance or separation pay immediately following at least 8 years of continuous active

duty with no single break therein of more than 90 days; or

d. Involuntarily released from active duty with readjustment or separation pay immediately following at

least 8 years of continuous active duty with no single break therein of more than 90 days.

A member may select a home:

a. Any place in the U.S.;

b. The HOR outside the U.S. (see par. U5125-A) or the place outside the U.S. from which the member was

initially called or ordered to active duty ( 53 Comp. Gen. 963 (1974), 54 id. 1042 (1975)); or

c. Any other place. NOTE: Allowances paid in this case must not exceed those payable had the member

selected a home at a CONUS location specified by the member.

[stract]

that chapter doesn't apply to me. I get HOR, not HOS. I'm not getting severance pay or being forced out involuntarily, my ADSC expired and I'm getting out, and my separation orders specify HOR.

doesn't NTS occur where you are currently living (last PDS)? When I was stationed overseas, my NTS was held at my previous PDS, and when I returned to CONUS it had to be released from storage and shipped across the country to my new duty station. So I don't think I would need a pre-determined location, as it would go into NTS where I am right now.

Edited January 7, 2014 by stract

[ForgotPassword]

Do I need to provide lodging receipts for PCS travel? I always thought no, and that it was the flat rate for the allotted days, just like per diem. Someone in travel dept told me today, however, that I need receipts for all lodging while making the drive. Thoughts?

[Finance_Guy]

Do I need to provide lodging receipts for PCS travel? I always thought no, and that it was the flat rate for the allotted days, just like per diem. Someone in travel dept told me today, however, that I need receipts for all lodging while making the drive. Thoughts?

Don't need them for the driving portion within CONUS but would need lodging receipts on nights staying at the APOE/APOD when going to or coming from OCONUS locations.

[Finance_Guy]

FG - I can't seem to get a straight answer from the local CPTS or TMO right now - I am separating, and am authorized to return to my HOR (not HOS). I have a line of accounting on my orders for Non-temporary storage, and I'm trying to figure out if I utilize the NTS option, does this void the GOVT payment to move my HHG to my HOR? I will most likely be travelling farther than my HOR to my next job and understand I will have to pay the difference, but that location is as yet an unknown quantity. So the idea is to put my stuff in NTS until I can determine where I'm going, and rent out my house.

I think, from reading U5630, that I can use NTS up to 180 days, then my goods need to be transported ASAPly to their final destination, all without additional expense incurred by me (assuming final destination is HOR). Where I would have to pay more is if HHG are not going to HOR and this cost for the GOVT exceeds the shipping cost to HOR, and/or if I extend the NTS past 180 days without getting an approved extension. True?

TMO is the OPR to answer that question, not finance. I checked the AF Supp to the JFTR and don't really see anything clearly stating you don't also get the HHG shipment in addition to the NTS. I do see the 180 day reference. See page 23.

https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a4_7/publication/jftrv1-jtrv2_afsup1/jftrv1-jtrv2_afsup1.pdf

Edited January 9, 2014 by Finance_Guy

[stract]

thanks!

[Day Man]

Stract- FWIW, When I separated in Sept, they would move my stuff to my HOR, or where I entered active duty; they were essentially the same place for me. I made a good amount of money renting the biggest U-Haul possible and road-tripping with the old lady. Your TMO should brief you on this crap in your initial out-processing briefing. PM me with any questions.

[LockheedFix]

Is it possible to occupy two TLFs when you PCS and get reimbursed for both with you TLE? I know the max amount is $290 per day so I would think you can, but it doesn't explicitly say you can occupy two rooms at the same station.

I'm moving with 4 dependents and our TLFs at my old PDS only have two bedrooms apiece. That's a tight squeeze for 5 days.

[ForgotPassword]

Don't need them for the driving portion within CONUS but would need lodging receipts on nights staying at the APOE/APOD when going to or coming from OCONUS locations.

I donno...I went back in today to turn in my paperwork and he asked for my itemized lodging receipts. Is TLE different than PCS travel lodging (driving portion)? Maybe that's what he is asking for, even though I didn't have any temp lodging once I arrived.

Edited January 10, 2014 by ForgotPassword

[Herk Driver]

I donno...I went back in today to turn in my paperwork and he asked for my itemized lodging receipts. Is TLE different than PCS travel lodging (driving portion)? Maybe that's what he is asking for, even though I didn't have any temp lodging once I arrived.

Are you moving CONUS to CONUS? If so, you do not need receipts for lodging. Who are you talking to? Ask to speak to a supervisor. FG is in the know...this is his career. Also, if you need more back-up then start digging through the JFTR and get the para that you need and take it with you.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Herk Driver

[ForgotPassword]

Yeah, I am conus to conus. I definitely belive FG over the dude at the local travel office. I'm thinking he is asking for TLE receipts.

[Finance_Guy]

Yeah, I am conus to conus. I definitely belive FG over the dude at the local travel office. I'm thinking he is asking for TLE receipts.

If not claiming TLE then no receipts are required for the PCS CONUS land travel. PCS moves get what we call "MALT Plus". The "Plus" is the standard CONUS per diem rate. If the CPTS still insists on receipts ask them to show you in the JFTR/AFI that a lodging receipt is required for PCS MALT Plus travel. See JFTR ref below which basically says you get the standard rate--doesn't matter if you spent money on meals/lodging or not.

U2025 STANDARD CONUS PER DIEM RATE

A. Definition. The Standard CONUS per diem rate is the rate for any CONUS location not included in a defined locality (county/area) in the CONUS.

B. CONUS PCS. The Standard CONUS per diem rate is used for all CONUS locations when PCS is involved.

U5105 TRAVEL AND TRANSPORTATION OPTIONS

B. ‘MALT Plus’ for POC Travel. Other than for transoceanic travel, PCS travel by POC is to the GOV’T’S advantage. A member traveling by POC is authorized ‘MALT Plus’. The MALT (par. U2605) is paid on a "per mile" basis for the official distance of each portion of the ordered travel (par. U3010). The ‘Plus’ (per diem) portion is paid on a whole day calendar basis for the allowable travel time.

2. Per Diem. A flat per diem at the Standard CONUS per diem rate is paid for each PCS travel day between authorized points, NTE the allowable travel time computed under par. U5160. If used, GOV’T QTRS and/or mess have no effect on the per diem amount paid. Each member traveling in a POC is authorized the Standard CONUS per diem rate.

[uhhello]

Just moved to the uk. Shipped our car and to do so drove the car up to the port and then rented a car back the other way. To get to airport, we rented a van and drove to airport. Finance is saying neither expense is reimburseable and that I will only get mileage.

[Pajaro]

I'm missing something on a Circuitous Travel Request and could use some advice. I'm an exchange officer in the middle of nowhere in Europe soon to PSC to a minor AETC base. I want to do Circuitous Travel through Venice, Italy. I submitted my request through Ramstein TMO (SATO, actually) to find out the official travel cost from my base in the middle of nowhere to the minor AETC base. That's what the USAF would pay if I did the direct route. They say it's $950 per person for all of FY2014. It doesn't matter what date.

I thought that was a little low, so I called Keesler (my most previous US base) to verify that they say the same price. Not even close. They say the official travel price for the same route is $2100 per person.

So, I called Ellsworth SATO to get a neutral party's figure. I've never been to Ellsworth, but I figure they have no reason to screw me. They say...wait for it....$3400 per person! WTF! They also say it's absolutely date-dependent (directly contradicting Ramstein SATO). Evidently having the contractor calculate the official travel cost is more of an art than a science. Either:

1) Ramstein SATO is super efficient and gets special official travel rates

2) Ramstein SATO is trying to screw me for some reason

3) Keesler (admittedly not SATO, but Wingate, I think) and Ellsworth (SATO) don't know how to figure out prices from Europe.

My plan is to wait until Monday and see what Aviano says. Maybe another USAFE base will be able to confirm the Ramstein number. Any thoughts on this? I really thought there was some big DoD travel database that listed the price between bases. I'm not at a US base, so I understand that my case is a little weird, but shouldn't two SATO offices have the exact same data to reference?

[guineapigfury]

The issue might be them leaving off the cost of the rotator since that isn't individually billed.

[Finance_Guy]

I'm missing something on a Circuitous Travel Request and could use some advice. I'm an exchange officer in the middle of nowhere in Europe soon to PSC to a minor AETC base. I want to do Circuitous Travel through Venice, Italy. I submitted my request through Ramstein TMO (SATO, actually) to find out the official travel cost from my base in the middle of nowhere to the minor AETC base. That's what the USAF would pay if I did the direct route. They say it's $950 per person for all of FY2014. It doesn't matter what date.

I thought that was a little low, so I called Keesler (my most previous US base) to verify that they say the same price. Not even close. They say the official travel price for the same route is $2100 per person.

So, I called Ellsworth SATO to get a neutral party's figure. I've never been to Ellsworth, but I figure they have no reason to screw me. They say...wait for it....$3400 per person! WTF! They also say it's absolutely date-dependent (directly contradicting Ramstein SATO). Evidently having the contractor calculate the official travel cost is more of an art than a science. Either:

1) Ramstein SATO is super efficient and gets special official travel rates

2) Ramstein SATO is trying to screw me for some reason

3) Keesler (admittedly not SATO, but Wingate, I think) and Ellsworth (SATO) don't know how to figure out prices from Europe.

My plan is to wait until Monday and see what Aviano says. Maybe another USAFE base will be able to confirm the Ramstein number. Any thoughts on this? I really thought there was some big DoD travel database that listed the price between bases. I'm not at a US base, so I understand that my case is a little weird, but shouldn't two SATO offices have the exact same data to reference?

I would suspect those stateside bases aren't as familiar with OCONUS booking. Cost of rotator isn't probably a factor here. Are they just giving you one-way costs or round trip. Try this website and see if there is a GSA rate. https://cpsearch.fas.gsa.gov/cpsearch/search.do?method=enter

I plugged in Frankfort to Austin, TX and got a YCA fare rate of $721 one-way. Always use the YCA rate. Really shouldn't be an issue if the Ramstein TMO is giving you the figure--that figure gets put on your PCS orders and the gaining base really can't dispute it.