Confused About The Hiring Process: Getting Hired By a Unit Rushing Vs Recruiters

[JohnClark]

I've read through a ton of older threads on here. Maybe I've read to much that I've jumped the gun and confused myself.

So older threads on here I found my 2008 or so, say the way to start the hiring process is by rushing a unit. I'm suppose to call a unit, ask for the pilot's ops desk and schedule a visit. I also fill out a packet and send it to the unit. If they like me they call me to the hiring board.

When I call units one of two things happen. Either A they don't know what I am talking about or B. They redirect to a voicemail box that is either full or I leave a message and never hear back.

The units that say they don't know what I am talking about never heard of the pilot ops desk and apparently don't have that number.

Today two Heavy units told me I have to go through their recruiters. I talked to the recruiter of one of the heavy units. They told me I need a pilot's license and already have to be graduated from college to even be considered for the board. Another Heavy unit told me I need a minimum of 45 flying hours (I have seven currently) to even be considered.

Has anyone else run into this trouble when trying to get in touch with units. It almost feels like dealing with the DMV at times. 

[LNGH]

Every unit is different. Some will have a listed POC and some will not. Some will list an ops desk some will not. Generally, ANG recruiters deal with enlisted and not officers, but they might be able to point you in the right direction. Additionally, more and more units don't allowing rushing these days. Some only at certain times, some invite only, like everything, it depends.

You do need to have a degree to become an officer, and you need to be an officer to fly, so if you haven't graduated you need to at least be close (1 semester or so).  Each unit can have it's own specific requirements so don't be surprised when it varies unit to unit. Some will require a license some won't. Some might require hours while others don't. For a lot of units, fighters especially, you can apply and technically be considered with 0 hours but the reality is without a PPL you get pushed aside pretty quick.

 

EDIT: To add to that, here's an example of where Ops is listed: 

https://www.138fw.ang.af.mil/Contact-Us/

If you're interested in being a pilot here's an example posting:

https://www.115fw.ang.af.mil/About/Careers/Pilot-Training/

Notice some info on there that if you're just getting started you probably don't have and will need to get sorted before you can seriously discuss hiring with anyone.

Edited August 6, 2019 by LNGH

[CharlieHotel47]

Instead of asking for the pilot's desk ops or ops or w.e., you should just ask to speak to a pilot. Once speaking with one, ask for the contact info for the chief pilot, or just simply tell whoever you are speaking with (weather pilot, nonner or enlisted airman) that you are interested in becoming a pilot and would like to know more about the hiring/rushing process. Most pilots will try to guide you or put you in contact with the right person. Unfortunately, when calling ops it will most likely be a young airman that thinks of pilots as mythical creatures that only show up when its time to fly. Or if there is some type of free food or coffee available. And young airman handling the phone at ops will be quick to tell you that they have never heard of such things as "the pilot's desk ops". This might be true and in their defense, they haven't been in the military long enough to know any better. PM if your interested in a list of contact I compiled about 2 years ago while I was rushing. Contacts might be old but the phone #s are probable still good. 

Cheers

[JohnClark]

2 hours ago, LNGH said:

Every unit is different. Some will have a listed POC and some will not. Some will list an ops desk some will not. Generally, ANG recruiters deal with enlisted and not officers, but they might be able to point you in the right direction. Additionally, more and more units don't allowing rushing these days. Some only at certain times, some invite only, like everything, it depends.

You do need to have a degree to become an officer, and you need to be an officer to fly, so if you haven't graduated you need to at least be close (1 semester or so).  Each unit can have it's own specific requirements so don't be surprised when it varies unit to unit. Some will require a license some won't. Some might require hours while others don't. For a lot of units, fighters especially, you can apply and technically be considered with 0 hours but the reality is without a PPL you get pushed aside pretty quick.

 

EDIT: To add to that, here's an example of where Ops is listed: 

https://www.138fw.ang.af.mil/Contact-Us/

If you're interested in being a pilot here's an example posting:

https://www.115fw.ang.af.mil/About/Careers/Pilot-Training/

Notice some info on there that if you're just getting started you probably don't have and will need to get sorted before you can seriously discuss hiring with anyone.

Thank you for the info. I'm about to be a senior in college and will be graduating in May. A lot of the old threads I read said begin applying your Junior year. Only recently, was I finally able to get in contact with an active duty officer recruiter. I filled out an Officer Prequalification sheet to take the AFOQT and TABS. I've been trying to get in touch with this recruiter since December of last year.

[N730]

26 minutes ago, JohnClark said:

Thank you for the info. I'm about to be a senior in college and will be graduating in May. A lot of the old threads I read said begin applying your Junior year. Only recently, was I finally able to get in contact with an active duty officer recruiter. I filled out an Officer Prequalification sheet to take the AFOQT and TABS. I've been trying to get in touch with this recruiter since December of last year.

Some units say you must graduate within 6 months of the board, some say a year, it just depends. The other guys have it spot on. Go to bogidope, check the wing websites, look at the wing recruiting facebook pages, call and try to talk to a pilot. You'll be able to find the information you want.

If Active Duty is the path you want to take, don't allow the recruiter to bully you into applying for rated positions other than pilot, unless you are interested in those positions. If you turn down a rated position, you are inelegible for future AD boards without a waiver.

 I have a buddy whos recruiter told him he HAD to put a top 3...until he told the recruiter that he would just keep rushing guard units and wasn't interested in applying to active duty if he had to apply to boards other than pilot. Then, miraculously, the recruiter found out that he could, in fact, apply for pilot only.

 

Outside of the job listings on Bogidope, I'm not sure how to find out when reserve units are hiring. But if you are interested in all airframes, you can get in touch with a Reserve Officer Recruiter too.

But be aware, if you call the AFR recruiting 1-800 number, it is basically a call center, so they aren't always correct in what they say. I had a lady passionately tell me that I could not speak to an officer recruiter until I had my degree in hand. She even went as far as to tell me that whoever let me take my AFOQT should get in trouble because you aren't allowed to take the AFOQT or TBAS until after graduation. The lady was an idiot and full of crap. So if that kind of thing happens to you, try to call another day, arguing with stupidity won't get you anywhere.

 

And speaking of the AFOQT and TBAS, you don't necessarily have to go through a recruiter to take the tests. Call any universities with AFROTC detachments or guard units within driving distance. They may tell you no, but the AFROTC detachment near me was willing to proctor both tests as soon as I was willing to take them. Just make sure you study your ass off and make the most of it. There's no reason to do poorly if you prepare correctly.

[JohnClark]

28 minutes ago, N730 said:

Some units say you must graduate within 6 months of the board, some say a year, it just depends. The other guys have it spot on. Go to bogidope, check the wing websites, look at the wing recruiting facebook pages, call and try to talk to a pilot. You'll be able to find the information you want.

If Active Duty is the path you want to take, don't allow the recruiter to bully you into applying for rated positions other than pilot, unless you are interested in those positions. If you turn down a rated position, you are inelegible for future AD boards without a waiver.

 I have a buddy whos recruiter told him he HAD to put a top 3...until he told the recruiter that he would just keep rushing guard units and wasn't interested in applying to active duty if he had to apply to boards other than pilot. Then, miraculously, the recruiter found out that he could, in fact, apply for pilot only.

 

Outside of the job listings on Bogidope, I'm not sure how to find out when reserve units are hiring. But if you are interested in all airframes, you can get in touch with a Reserve Officer Recruiter too.

But be aware, if you call the AFR recruiting 1-800 number, it is basically a call center, so they aren't always correct in what they say. I had a lady passionately tell me that I could not speak to an officer recruiter until I had my degree in hand. She even went as far as to tell me that whoever let me take my AFOQT should get in trouble because you aren't allowed to take the AFOQT or TBAS until after graduation. The lady was an idiot and full of crap. So if that kind of thing happens to you, try to call another day, arguing with stupidity won't get you anywhere.

 

And speaking of the AFOQT and TBAS, you don't necessarily have to go through a recruiter to take the tests. Call any universities with AFROTC detachments or guard units within driving distance. They may tell you no, but the AFROTC detachment near me was willing to proctor both tests as soon as I was willing to take them. Just make sure you study your ass off and make the most of it. There's no reason to do poorly if you prepare correctly.

Thanks for the advice man. I'll trying calling again and ask to speak to a pilot. I've been trying since fall of last year to get a chance to take the AFOQT. I did try contacting my college's AFROTC unit but they said I had to be a cadet to take it.

I've called the AFR 1-800 a dozen times and kept dialing the Air Force officer recruiter number as well. Finally a local enlisted recruiter gave me the number of my state's officer recruiter and then it took him months to finally answer the phone when I called. (It would always go straight to voicemail).

I'm interested in both Heavies and Fighters. Anything but drones. Another thread I started months ago, a few people said most units higher twice a year. I know a ton of units had a deadline back in April-June. Do most of them usually start posting on Bogidope?

My back up plan is to go active duty but I would love a Law Enforcement career so I am leaning towards Guard/Reserve.

[N730]

Thanks for the advice man. I'll trying calling again and ask to speak to a pilot. I've been trying since fall of last year to get a chance to take the AFOQT. I did try contacting my college's AFROTC unit but they said I had to be a cadet to take it.
I've called the AFR 1-800 a dozen times and kept dialing the Air Force officer recruiter number as well. Finally a local enlisted recruiter gave me the number of my state's officer recruiter and then it took him months to finally answer the phone when I called. (It would always go straight to voicemail).
I'm interested in both Heavies and Fighters. Anything but drones. Another thread I started months ago, a few people said most units higher twice a year. I know a ton of units had a deadline back in April-June. Do most of them usually start posting on Bogidope?
My back up plan is to go active duty but I would love a Law Enforcement career so I am leaning towards Guard/Reserve.

It just depends. Most post on Bogidope, but it’s probably 75% if I had to guess. I know of 3-4 units off the top of my head that don’t post their jobs there.

And you have to stay on top of the officer recruiters, they’re busy and have no way of knowing how serious people that reach out to them are. So be annoying. Call or text the AFR recruiter once a week until he realizes you’re serious and starts investing some time into you.


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[Fly For a 62E]

Jumping off what my man N730 said, BogiDope.com has quite a few numbers for units (though it's not every unit). Some may be outdated, but if that's the case the person still usually is able to help point you in the right direction. 

When you do call, ask for a pilot (preferably the one in charge of UPT hiring) and ask for application requirements and when the next UPT board will be. Keep pressing and you'll get good info sooner or later. Persistence is key! Good luck. 

[FDNYOldGuy]

For the Reserves, you can work with an officer recruiter to get you through the initial million forms of paperwork, get you scheduled for MEPS/TBAS/AFOQT (this will take a LOT of pushing on your part, but they can do it), and they can also have you apply for an Unsponsored slot. Unsponsored means you're picked up by the Reserves as a whole to go through pilot training and you just hustle to find a Reserves unit to sponsor you. If you don't get sponsored by the time you're done with UPT, they send you to whatever unit they need manning at. 

You can also start doing what others above have said and making contacts at units to set up your interviews. But, unless you're hired by the unit (unlikely if you don't have AFOQT/TBAS scores), you're still going to have to get ahold of the officer recruiter to get those things booked and done.

Guard is completely different and each unit runs its own recruiter, so working with one unit's recruiter won't do you a lot of good if you're trying to get hired by another. And, as others said, they're more focused on enlisted folks, so they might not be able to help as much. 

Active is a different beast and I don't know anything about it, but there's good advice already in this thread about only applying for what you want and don't let them push you into a position you don't want. 

The whole process can take about 2 years (especially for Active and Guard), so get the ball rolling ASAP if you want to do it. Good luck!

[WeatherLion]

On 8/11/2019 at 9:02 AM, FDNYOldGuy said:

For the Reserves, you can work with an officer recruiter to get you through the initial million forms of paperwork, get you scheduled for MEPS/TBAS/AFOQT (this will take a LOT of pushing on your part, but they can do it), and they can also have you apply for an Unsponsored slot. Unsponsored means you're picked up by the Reserves as a whole to go through pilot training and you just hustle to find a Reserves unit to sponsor you. If you don't get sponsored by the time you're done with UPT, they send you to whatever unit they need manning at. 

 

Is it possible to switch from a reserve contract to an Active Duty contract if you cannot find a unit to sponsor you?

On 8/6/2019 at 4:13 PM, N730 said:

Some units say you must graduate within 6 months of the board, some say a year, it just depends. The other guys have it spot on. Go to bogidope, check the wing websites, look at the wing recruiting facebook pages, call and try to talk to a pilot. You'll be able to find the information you want.

If Active Duty is the path you want to take, don't allow the recruiter to bully you into applying for rated positions other than pilot, unless you are interested in those positions. If you turn down a rated position, you are inelegible for future AD boards without a waiver.

 I have a buddy whos recruiter told him he HAD to put a top 3...until he told the recruiter that he would just keep rushing guard units and wasn't interested in applying to active duty if he had to apply to boards other than pilot. Then, miraculously, the recruiter found out that he could, in fact, apply for pilot only.

This happened to me. My recruiter said he would not submit my application to board without selecting at least two. I picked Pilot and CSO. I was just selected for CSO for the 2019OT03 Board. I do not want to accept. Will I still be able to apply to guard or reserves?

[FDNYOldGuy]

1 hour ago, WeatherLion said:

Is it possible to switch from a reserve contract to an Active Duty contract if you cannot find a unit to sponsor you?

I haven’t heard of that out of the gate. There was talk of allowing Unsponsored folks to FAIP, which would obviously be 3-4 years of AD orders, but I haven’t heard of it panning out. You could come back full time as an IP under the Reserves (~15% of IPs are Reservists), but that would take time in service and time with an MWS/unit before happening. 

More likely, if you didn’t get picked up by a unit by UPT completion, you’d just get shuttled to a unit that was undermanned by the 340th. You’re going to be pretty desirable to a unit while at UPT and will likely get hired by someone, unless you’re really jamming up in the interview process. 

[WeatherLion]

1 hour ago, FDNYOldGuy said:

I haven’t heard of that out of the gate. There was talk of allowing Unsponsored folks to FAIP, which would obviously be 3-4 years of AD orders, but I haven’t heard of it panning out. You could come back full time as an IP under the Reserves (~15% of IPs are Reservists), but that would take time in service and time with an MWS/unit before happening. 

More likely, if you didn’t get picked up by a unit by UPT completion, you’d just get shuttled to a unit that was undermanned by the 340th. You’re going to be pretty desirable to a unit while at UPT and will likely get hired by someone, unless you’re really jamming up in the interview process. 

My reservist recruiter did mention this. Something about being on active orders for up to 4 years. I'm not sure what the FAIP program is though. Could you please explain that? 

[FDNYOldGuy]

7 hours ago, WeatherLion said:

My reservist recruiter did mention this. Something about being on active orders for up to 4 years. I'm not sure what the FAIP program is though. Could you please explain that? 

First Assignment Instructor Pilot. Basically, you graduate pilot training with wings and, instead of getting sent to a MWS/another base, you get sent to Pilot Instructor Training (PIT) and come back to instruct T6s. Usually T6s and usually at the base you just left UPT from, but there are exceptions. 
 

Only been for AD folks, but brought up as a potential for Unsponsored Reservists.Yet to see it happen, though. 
 

The active orders for 4 years is roughly encompassing all training from OTS through unit seasoning in your aircraft. 2-3 years is more likely for mobility and tankers, with the up to 4 years likely being for the more in-depth fighter training/seasoning. 

[Hopefulflyer389]

I can speak about the unsponsored/FAIP situation as I was selected to be a FAIP, but found a unit at the same time. Going unsponsored is a great thing if you want to fly heavies and not concerned about location; you can always transfer units after 3 years. The FAIP portion is primarily for T-6s as an unsponsored person automatically tracks T-1s. However, there are times where they need T-38 FAIPs. 

Simply put, the reserves need to provide instructors and you need to voice early on that you want to do it so the ball can get rolling. What will happen is you be an instructor for the reserve unit at your UPT base and will do that for 3-4 years active. In the last year of the full time orders you will begin rushing units and the liaison officer will help you find a home.