Degradation of SUPT

[SurelySerious]

55 minutes ago, WheelsOff said:

Anyone in the know care to give a report on the “Pipeline” (aka FTU) Conference from SJ this week?

Let me guess, it was similar to last year’s where they blamed the problem on MAF/AFSOC guys teaching 38s, PTN being the greatest thing since sliced bread, VR sims are the wave of the future...what else am I missing?

Who goes to said conference? People who deal only with the pipeline directly, or is there input from those that have to deal with the output?

[WheelsOff]

9 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

Who goes to said conference? People who deal only with the pipeline directly, or is there input from those that have to deal with the output?

Last year it was a rep from most of the fighter FTUs, a few IFF/UPT reps, and someone from PTN. This year I hear it drew a bigger crowd, mostly made up of the same demographics (just more representation). It was meant to be the CGO mafia taking issues into their hands to crosstalk amongst each other to figure out how to unfvck the mess the AF has created.

As with any idea originally born with good intentions that gain traction; my fear is that some “good idea fairies” may have weaseled their way in to push their “innovative” agendas...

Edited September 19, 2019 by WheelsOff

[brabus]

I’m with surely, no rep from the organizations that get the AETC product at the end is a foul. The bob’s need to hear how the product they’re ultimately responsible for is not cutting it. 

[Harambe]

Do you need a waiver to go to T-38 PIT as a non 11F/B? What reg is that in?

[Bode]

Do you need a waiver to go to T-38 PIT as a non 11F/B? What reg is that in?

Only if you didn’t fly the 38 in pilot training.


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[Harambe]

12 minutes ago, Bode said:

Only if you didn’t fly the 38 in pilot training.


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So if you did you’re good? That 19th AF generals comments don’t apply?

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, Harambe said:

Do you need a waiver to go to T-38 PIT as a non 11F/B? What reg is that in?

Yes you do. It’s on the course entry requirements for the T-38 PIT syllabus. The only exception is if you are a T-6 IP.

T-38 SUPT/ENJJPT/FWQ graduate and have fighter / bomber experience or have previous T-38 IP experience.
(a) Single pilot aircraft candidates must have achieved mission-qualified and certified as at least a two-
ship lead in that aircraft. Note: Candidates with a previous T-6A UPT/PIT IP tour meet this requirement.
(b) Those candidates from other aircraft must have achieved aircraft commander (AC) status with a minimum 
of 100 hours as primary AC. Note: Candidates with a previous T-6A UPT/PIT IP tour meet this requirement.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by LookieRookie

[dream big]

Got to experience some of these PTN VR sims this weekend.  They are great for learning the switches, the pattern and callouts but in no way shape or form could I see these replacing traditional UPT, unless leadership is willing to get people killed.  Just because a test bed of hand selected individuals are doing okay doesn’t mean that they are representative of your average UPT student.  

[brabus]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

unless leadership is willing to get people killed.

They are. But it’ll be the aircrew’s fault when it happens, root cause be damned. 

[Bigred]

I dunno if this belong here, but hearing rumors from all the 2 and 1Lts fresh out of UPT that the Air Force actually overshot their numbers on pilot accessions and are taking pilot slots away from those who have yet to report to training. 

I don’t think it does much in the way of ‘degradation of SUPT’ but has anyone heard similar?

[zachbar]

2 minutes ago, Bigred said:

I dunno if this belong here, but hearing rumors from all the 2 and 1Lts fresh out of UPT that the Air Force actually overshot their numbers on pilot accessions and are taking pilot slots away from those who have yet to report to training. 

I don’t think it does much in the way of ‘degradation of SUPT’ but has anyone heard similar?

I have zero idea about whether slots are being taken away or not, but if that’s true another reason MIGHT be because 19AF figured out in the last year that their initial estimate of how many students it can produce was too high. The rumblings down here at the “why-the-🤬-did-you-fly-CT-instead-of-a-student-sortie” level are that those numbers are being adjusted for the next year. 

[WheelsOff]

34 minutes ago, zachbar said:

I have zero idea about whether slots are being taken away or not, but if that’s true another reason MIGHT be because 19AF figured out in the last year that their initial estimate of how many students it can produce was too high. The rumblings down here at the “why-the-🤬-did-you-fly-CT-instead-of-a-student-sortie” level are that those numbers are being adjusted for the next year. 

Haven’t heard anything about taking slots away. But as to production numbers getting cut; it’s because they were too lofty in their projections to begin with. The jets are broke, especially at CBM, and 19AF realizes that and has adjusted fire as a result. It’s kind of like popping those cheap enhancement supplements at the gas station that boast 9 inches but only give you 6...at the end of the day when the big innovation boner wears off, you realize that your equipment can only do so much. 

[Bob Uecker]

Sorry for potato quality, got it from a guy that knows a guy.

[zachbar]

4 minutes ago, Bob Uecker said:

Sorry for potato quality, got it from a guy that knows a guy.

Interesting. I feel bad for the people who will have their slots taken away. Something had to happen. It seems like the reckoning happened when the snowball of washbacks from classes 20-XX threatened to crash into class 21-01 like the KoolAid man. 

[JBueno]

How broke are the jets at CBM?

[hindsight2020]

Their revolving door contract mx was running a shell game and trashing the flyers and hangar queens alike due to lack of continuity. No free lunch in life but hey, contractors got paid so the senators are happy. When you realize the DOD is fundamentally a jobs program in modern times, you start seeing the fiscal failures of our military spending as success and not the Orwellian irony ive come to privately accept them to be. 

We might be picking up the slack for CBM by next summer until their new contractor presumably rights the ship. Hope in one hand and shit on the other amma right? 

[Negatory]

Holy shit, what a foul.  Dudes thinking they will be pilots for 2 years and now won’t get to because we can’t just ramp up/down when we make a decision.  Instead, it seems like we always elect to overshoot/undershoot dramatically and rebound from the new mean.

Short sighted manning decisions are a large part of what got us to our current rated crisis.  Things like this will totally be great for retention of those year groups.  Maybe bonus take rates will finally turn around in 2032?

[ImNotARobot]

Combining the collective wisdom of the last two posts...you guys are correct with the "foul jobs program".

For all the USG's faults, it has never claimed to be efficient. It never claimed to save the taxpayer's money. It never claimed to provide the list of ready volunteers with a long, stable career.

Although 1st and the 15th paychecks are virtually assured into infinity (the jobs program), it certainly is foul in almost every respect. I can only speak for myself, but for the first half of my career, the rose-colored glasses allowed the good to outweigh the bad.

Then around the 10-year mark, the glasses were punched off my face, and that decade of experience and observation created a single goal...reach escape velocity before the foul jobs program created an indelible negative mark on my family's future. So thankful and lucky that the airlines hiring was there to greet me and thousands of my contemporaries. I wish that luck upon all of us who raised our hands to volunteer...a choice for you to easily transition out when the requisite pain threshold is reached.

YOUNG PEOPLE:  Knowing what I know now, I advocate hard for ARC positions. The Guard / Reserves allows you to maintain maximum flexibility while participating in the USG jobs program. If you love it, they will absolutely allow you to volunteer to come onto Active Duty. If you hate it, you'll have ample opportunity to weave other jobs/locations.

Go ARC. Have contingencies in place. And no matter WHAT, never expect the USG to take care of you. You will be disappointed.

 

 

[Bob Uecker]

29 minutes ago, PilotCandidate said:

Link, please. 

Thats all I have.

Someone on reddit commented that it looks like BS, because everything outside of the yellow is apparently copied from a military.com article from May. The only images out there for this are potato quality, like they were screenshotting big foot.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Bob Uecker

[Merle Dixon]

BS or not, this pullback in rated pilot slots rumor makes sense. A few months ago I heard that AETC needed 250ish new IPs in FY 19. Well, they only got 150ish because everyone is jumping ship. And, CBM has yuge aircraft maintenance problems that will take the new maintenance contractor at least a year to fix. Didn’t one of you guys also mention PIT had/has maintenance problems too? You cant train pilots with broken aircraft and a lack of IPs.

[Kenny Powers]

1 hour ago, Merle Dixon said:

You cant train pilots with broken aircraft and a lack of IPs.

I thought all you had to do was put on some special goggles. You're telling me you actually have to fly airplanes to learn how to fly airplanes?

[Danny Noonin]

It’s bs if they gave out slots then take them away. There’s probably no good option here but something like the deferments of the early 90s would be better than nothing. Essentially, some dudes’ pilot training classes were delayed 2-3 years and they did a tour as a missileer, skycop, acquisition, etc. while they waited. At least give folks the option to do something like that. Otherwise it’s just another broken promise.

 

[HuskyPilot]

Think we have problems now with UPT production? Wait until the deployment machine revs up and starts tagging UPT line IPs again. 

Not sure what other thread to post that little gem, but the rumint is they are coming back like they were before the mythical "fence" went up. 

Can anyone else confirm or throw BS flags?

[BashiChuni]

stfu and innovate - AF

[WheelsOff]

27 minutes ago, HuskyPilot said:

Think we have problems now with UPT production? Wait until the deployment machine revs up and starts tagging UPT line IPs again. 

Not sure what other thread to post that little gem, but the rumint is they are coming back like they were before the mythical "fence" went up. 

Can anyone else confirm or throw BS flags?

Can confirm. I heard it straight from the 19AF/CC’s mouth at the IP all call yesterday during his base visit at CBM this week. No details on how many, other than “a few” per cycle...