Degradation of SUPT

[Walkerdubs]

Yep. I am one of those guys. Flew 38s and got caught up in some of the worst drops since the bank happened. Some of my buddies never flew a manned USAF aircraft after pilot training. Still an awesome career path but don’t have high expectations and you won’t be disappointed.


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Do you think Big Blue will actually go through with that AETC memo about taking pilot slots? Should we prepare for disappointment? Cadre at our ROTC Detachment keep saying “ignore it”

FYSA - December 2019 Commission -> Vance June 2020


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[Homestar]

I would be surprised if that memo were real. 

[Duck]

The only thing you can count on in the Air Force is to not count on the Air Force. Nothing would surprise me at all.


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[Merle Dixon]

6 hours ago, Walkerdubs said:

Do you think Big Blue will actually go through with that AETC memo about taking pilot slots? Should we prepare for disappointment? Cadre at our ROTC Detachment keep saying “ignore it”

FYSA - December 2019 Commission -> Vance June 2020


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I am surprised management at your detachment is so detached from reality. I just heard that CBM is going to send some T-38 students to Sheppard. CBMs maintenance problems have crushed their ability to train T-38 students. So, yes, I think big blue will reduce UPT slots. And please, while working for big blue falcon, always, ALWAYS “prepare for disappointment.” 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Merle Dixon

[Sua Sponte]

12 hours ago, Walkerdubs said:

 

Do you think Big Blue will actually go through with that AETC memo about taking pilot slots? Should we prepare for disappointment? Cadre at our ROTC Detachment keep saying “ignore it”

FYSA - December 2019 Commission -> Vance June 2020


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Things to do:

1. Start searching for ANG/AFRC flying units you’d like to be apart of.

2. Get in writing from your cadre that the AETC memo is false (they won’t).

3. Read every thread on this forum about the current state of the Air Force and make your own judgement.

Good luck

[Sprkt69]

Ah yes, the new Air Force motto... “Aim Low” so every good deal is a gift and things will be pretty darn good

[Bigred]

12 hours ago, Sprkt69 said:

Ah yes, the new Air Force motto... “Aim Low” so every good deal is a gift and things will be pretty darn good

Well, if you set the bar low it’s pretty easy to step over it when you lower it even further, so...

[Dynasty22]

Is there any information regarding if candidates are still being selected UPT Next?

[whiskeydriver]

[Bender]

Rumor has it a “Innovation Syllabus” is in its final stretch to reaching the 19AF this month. From what I’ve heard so far it will increase T-6 sorties for T-1s and hold for T-38s...single track perhaps. All kinds of flashy VR and 360 Video included to augment the training...rather than replace.

I mean, it was already into the bone with OBOGS. Maybe they can at least get back to the skin if more sorties aren’t cut.

Moles in place...stand by for more!

~Bendy

[LookieRookie]

1 hour ago, Bender said:

Rumor has it a “Innovation Syllabus” is in its final stretch to reaching the 19AF this month. From what I’ve heard so far it will increase T-6 sorties for T-1s and hold for T-38s...single track perhaps. All kinds of flashy VR and 360 Video included to augment the training...rather than replace.

I mean, it was already into the bone with OBOGS. Maybe they can at least get back to the skin if more sorties aren’t cut.

Moles in place...stand by for more!

~Bendy

It’s the UPT 2.5 syllabus that will be executed at Randolph. It’s not particularly a secret

[Bender]

It’s the UPT 2.5 syllabus that will be executed at Randolph. It’s not particularly a secret

Oh, I didn’t realize it was common knowledge. Can you share more about what’s going on?

Once RND gets done with it, my understanding is it’s supposed to hit everyone in the face.

Thought it would be of interest...maybe you know more than me.

Let us know what’s up.

~Bendy

[Bender]

It’s the UPT 2.5 syllabus that will be executed at Randolph. It’s not particularly a secret

So can you share the syllabus draft or details with us? A synopsis at least?

~Bendy

[YoungnDumb]

I'm gonna guess it involves less flying and less sims all in the name of increased production. Oh and a healthy splash of VR and some buzz words.

[LookieRookie]

On 12/3/2019 at 7:30 PM, Bender said:

 

So can you share the syllabus draft or details with us? A synopsis at least?

~Bendy

 

Dont have one, the Bobs are still debating over what it will be.

[zachbar]

2 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

Dont have one, the Bobs are still debating over what it will be.

I’ve been reading through a draft in order to provide comments to be sent up the chain, and I find myself scratching my head a lot. I don’t want to disparage the people who worked very hard on it, because I have good friends at the other bases. The effort was well intentioned, but syllabus 2.5 seems overly optimistic and grasping for anything and everything “innovative.” The new syllabus concepts also seems to have been tested in a vacuum, primarily because the class that provided the lessons learned for it was part of a separate innovation flight apart from the rest of the flying squadrons. No washbacks or forwards, no inbound baby class pressuring the timeline, no brand new FAIP development to worry about, etc. I question it’s ability to succeed in the real world. 

My big problem with what we have been doing in UPT isn’t that 19AF wants to innovate, it’s how we do it. We changed every variable a year ago with the new syllabus starting with 19-20, and we changed the way we rate what is successful and what is not. That’s not an experiment. That’s desperate thrashing. How do I know what new concept works and what doesn’t if everything changed at the same time and if I don’t have a control to compare it against? We’re also doing the equivalent of jerking ourselves off here in 19AF because we define our own success. As far as I know there isn’t an official channel to interface with follow on training, and there isn’t an official forum for them to define what they want from a UPT graduate.

What stood out to me is that syllabus 2.5 increases the flying time slightly over the current “new” syllabus. That’s awesome! But...if we are nearing the same amount of hours as the proven legacy syllabus, this entire last year and a half was a waste. We should have used something like PTN to vette isolated, innovative ideas to be rolled into the syllabus in an incremental and controlled manner. Instead we have an entire generation of pilots who were screwed by AETC, received worse training, and are less qualified graduates. I’ll look every one of them in the eye and tell that to their faces when I go back to my MWS because they deserve to know it and also because I’ll be stuck with the results when I’m on a crew with them. 
 

*rant over*

[ThreeHoler]

People in AMC training (at the MAJCOM level) are of the opinion that the product coming out of UPT is not quality for MAF operations. It probably doesn’t help that 19 AF is of the opinion that UPT Phase III can be taught in much larger more expensive airframes.


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[LookieRookie]

8 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

People in AMC training (at the MAJCOM level) are of the opinion that the product coming out of UPT is not quality for MAF operations. It probably doesn’t help that 19 AF is of the opinion that UPT Phase III can be taught in much larger more expensive airframes.


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Well, AMC better be ready for in the next decade:

1. Pilots that only fly the T-6

2. Pilots that fly the T-6 and minimal T-7

or

3. Pilots that only fly the T-6 and sim in legacy T-1 sims for Phase III top off

 

 

On another note, 2.5 is only supposed to be producing T-38 trained pilots. 

[Genghis John]

Dope. Looks like CMR just got twice as long. 

[Homestar]

11 hours ago, zachbar said:

As far as I know there isn’t an official channel to interface with follow on training, and there isn’t an official forum for them to define what they want from a UPT graduate.

AETC is holding a realistic training review board this summer.  Hopefully there is some crosstalk there.

[SurelySerious]

5 hours ago, Genghis John said:

Dope. Looks like CMR just got twice as long. 

At least, since UPT 2.5 coincides with the halving of FTU training, while the ops squadrons bleed instructors...

[Bob Uecker]

You guys got any info on the Randolph UPT classes next summer?

[LookieRookie]

39 minutes ago, Bob Uecker said:

You guys got any info on the Randolph UPT classes next summer?

Are you at USAFA as a firstie right now? If not, then I doubt you’ll go.

Edited December 6, 2019 by LookieRookie

[Bob Uecker]

Nope, picked up on the last AD board with my next PCS being to Randolph to start UPT.

[LookieRookie]

1 minute ago, Bob Uecker said:

Nope, picked up on the last AD board with my next PCS being to Randolph to start UPT.

Interesting. The first class won’t be till the summer.