What is a good company to Mil-leave from?

[Swanwick]

I finish my Bachelor's May 2020 and will be rushing units beginning then. I currently pay the bills with single-pilot corporate flying and contract gigs, but I wonder if I should sign on with an established company after I graduate but before I'm hired by the military to make the most of my USERRA rights. 

I could continue to be a contract pilot which would give me the option to rush units on my own schedule (but my job wouldn't be protected through USERRA). Or try to join a regional with a flow program to one of the majors. Or join a large charter op such as XOJet, which also seems to have flow to the majors now.

What are your suggestions/experiences?

Edited August 16, 2019 by Swanwick

[rudderrightmore]

6 hours ago, Swanwick said:

I finish my Bachelor's May 2020 and will be rushing units beginning then. I currently pay the bills with single-pilot corporate flying and contract gigs, but I wonder if I should sign on with an established company after I graduate but before I'm hired by the military to make the most of my USERRA rights. 

I could continue to be a contract pilot which would give me the option to rush units on my own schedule (but my job wouldn't be protected through USERRA). Or try to join a regional with a flow program to one of the majors. Or join a large charter op such as XOJet, which also seems to have flow to the majors now.

What are your suggestions/experiences?

Rush now, some units will interview if you're a year away from graduating. If not, you'll make contacts. 

What do you mean "make the most of my USERRA rights?" There's only one "right." it's that your employer has to hold your position. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the second part but you are in no way protected under USERRA when rushing units. 

[Swanwick]

4 minutes ago, rudderrightmore said:

Rush now, some units will interview if you're a year away from graduating. If not, you'll make contacts.

Good point, thank you.

4 minutes ago, rudderrightmore said:

What do you mean "make the most of my USERRA rights?" There's only one "right." it's that your employer has to hold your position. 

Point taken.

4 minutes ago, rudderrightmore said:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the second part but you are in no way protected under USERRA when rushing units.

I know of some guys who signed up for a regional before joining the ANG and came back four years later with a great seniority number waiting for them. I'm wondering whether that's my best option or if there are alternative strategies that the search function didn't turn up. As a contract pilot I can rush units whenever I want. One concern I have is being stuck on a regional schedule and not having the time to rush units; is this a valid concern?

[rudderrightmore]

2 hours ago, Swanwick said:

I know of some guys who signed up for a regional before joining the ANG and came back four years later with a great seniority number waiting for them. I'm wondering whether that's my best option or if there are alternative strategies that the search function didn't turn up.

I feel like someone got away with that once and the airline smartened up. More power to you if it's possible though.

Yes, it is a valid concern, I had units call me a week in advance to come out for an interview.. not much notice. Fortunately my other career allows me to work remotely so I kind of just disappeared for a week,  but obviously you cant do that when you're flying. 

[kona4breakfast]

It's a valid question though. I know that there are companies that will round file your resume if they notice you're in the reserves or guard. They've had enough issues with us in the past and they can't accommodate someone leaving for drills or AT during the season. I get it. I split train all of my drills when I'm scheduled for work because I have a hitch schedule. In helicopter aviation, if you allow someone else to start flying your contract, then they have your contract when the music stops and there's no more work. You might still 'have a job,' but when you're paid a daily rate and not salaried, that doesn't mean much. I'm in a better situation now with a lot more leverage over my employer, but I don't screw over my employer because they pay my mortgage; Uncle Sugar doesn't.

Long term orders are a bit of a different story, but it's still a very valid question. If I was the OP, I'd go to a large company that will stand a good chance of weathering a recession and still existing in a few years. I'd also be very proactive in communicating with the first-line supervisor about what to expect and try to work out with them a plan to minimize impact to the company. 

[PilotPitts]

Lockheed. Differential pay while on mil leave up to the USERRA 5 year limit. Can’t beat it.


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[iRobot]

@PilotPitts Shhhhhhhhh!!!!! 😏

[iRobot]

They do differential the whole 5 year period? I could of swore the policy said up to 4 weeks?
 
Anyone have any gouge on if Northrop Grumman has the same differential pay policy as Lockheed?

It’s policy that was recently updated this year (and God willing stays that way).

As for Northrop, haven’t been there for a few years, but last time I checked it’s as you stated, only for the weekend drills and 2 week training.


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[cowdog]

Boeing is good with military LOA.  They offer differential pay as well.

[WheelsOff]

Bump. Although more of a USERRA question:

An O-4 getting out and going ANG/AFRC at their UPT commitment (roughly 12 years total service) wanting to get a line number ASAP but also get their 20. 

What’s the best way/strategy to make this work without burning through the 5 years of USERRA too quickly? Ideally I’d like to get through probation and pick up a year (or two) worth of orders on an AGR/full-time status, but then that only gets me to the 13-14 year mark and now only 3-4 years of USERRA left to burn...

Sorry for the noob question but trying to understand how this all works. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by WheelsOff

[mp5g]

Any set of orders that are USERRA exempt. Have a few guys in my unit facing being a year or two short of a 20 yr AD retirement and they are scrounging for any flying deployment that is USERRA exempt. 
 

We’ve also had dudes fill non-flying staff job billets as well just because they were USERRA exempt, and preserved their leave.  Good luck with the decision. 

[brabus]

There’s a lot of USERRA-exempt orders to be had on deployments, staff, school in res, etc. Prepare yourself to have to take a 3 year staff job in DC/Langley, because you’re not likely to make up 3 years with just collecting USERRA-exempts deployments (and why would you want to?) There’s WOM of consideration for making all CC orders exempt, but not an actual thing right now.  My opinion without knowing your exact situation: get your line number and see how the AF cards fall, but don’t prioritize the AF over the line number. 

[Duck]

Try to find a unit with ONE alpha alert. USERRA Exempt orders and a pretty awesome deal depending on the unit.


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[nsplayr]

On 8/17/2019 at 3:30 PM, PilotPitts said:

Lockheed. Differential pay while on mil leave up to the USERRA 5 year limit. Can’t beat it.


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Daaaamn that is nice. L3 Harris is (was?) 6 months of differential pay FWIW. Not sure if policy changed after the merger.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Regional is one thing, try to hold out for the Big3 or 5, then go on the hunt as the normal transition for final career thoughts if you dare. They have made leaps and bounds tracking Mil Leave individuals and holding them to the 5 year line. AGRs are way more plentiful as the hiring continues and it’s always good to have a part-time mil gig while at the lower percentage of the pilot group, or just to have something to run back too and break up the monotony if you have a cookie cutter multiple leg carrier gig. Good for mil leave and quality of life but beware employers may have a matrix to monitor trends if you will.  
 

Delta will find you (friends have been called), Frontier not so much, (a friend got the “we’ll see you when we see you!) I would record that call for sure...

 

[Chida]

UPS does differential pay for named operations. 365 day limit in your career, though.

[FDNYOldGuy]

Not sure how wide-ranging you're looking, but civil service is another solid option. Most cities and departments will let you buy up to 3 years of prior military service from before you're hired, then you have another 5 years of USERRA protection after you're already on the job.   OTS/SERE/UPT/(potentially?)FTU do not count toward that limit because they're "School" orders, so that 5 year is theoretically longer because the ~1.5 years of school are exempt from USERRA 5 year limit. 

At least for NYC, as @Chida said above, any named operations can be eligible for differential pay, too, which is a huge benefit (mainly because you're also able to pay into retirement plans). I'm not getting the differential pay while in school, but my time is still clicking off toward my retirement. I'll have to pay into the pension a % of salary to "buy" the years that I've been gone when I get back, but it's still nice to have the clock still rolling. 

Another positive is FD or PD are very similar to military life (camaraderie, excitement, etc.), so the work risk/reward happiness is similar. So is the bureaucratic BS, but that's kinda life. This similarity also flows over (usually) into extra military leave pay to attend military obligations, but those benefits can vary greatly by department/city agency.

Lastly, you'll also get Veterans' points that can help move your name up a list. They can be used while trying to get hired, or for promotional exams after already employed. 

Lots of benefits, similarities, and symbiotic relationships between civil and mil service, if that's your bag.

[SocialD]

On 2/11/2020 at 3:54 PM, Duck said:

Try to find a unit with ONE alpha alert. USERRA Exempt orders and a pretty awesome deal depending on the unit.

 

Don't know what is considered alpha alert, but our (fighters) ONE orders are NOT currently USERRA exempt.  Are your ONE orders actually exempt?   

[Duck]

 
Don't know what is considered alpha alert, but our (fighters) ONE orders are NOT currently USERRA exempt.  Are your ONE orders actually exempt?   

Yeah ours are Title 10 and specifically says USERRA exempt. We’ve had airline guys do a whole career on ONE alert here and get an AD retirement. It’s a pretty good deal.


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[hindsight2020]

United Airlines these days....

 

too soon?

Edited March 1, 2020 by hindsight2020

[SocialD]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

Yeah ours are Title 10 and specifically says USERRA exempt. We’ve had airline guys do a whole career on ONE alert here and get an AD retirement. It’s a pretty good deal.

 

Man, we're getting screwed!  It gets shot down every time we've pushed to get them exempt.  No skin off my back as I don't have the time or the desire to be full time long enough to get me to an AD retirement.  Must be a different pot of money 🤣.  

[AirGuardianC141747]

Totally getting screwed without ANY doubt!!! Did something change or did your Commander(s) make a “deal” they shouldn’t have. I retired from the 601 AOC Homeland Defense / home of the ONE mission which scrambles ya’ll(assets). Gas Tanks were covered and so were the pointy folks - where is the disconnect?

SAF/MR exempted Air Reserve Component (ARC) members who volunteered for active duty under section 12301(d) of Title 10, Unites States Code, in direct or indirect support of Operation NOBLE EAGLE....

And several others such as OEF, OIF, etc. were/are covered as well.

*Back in May 2015 - SAF/MR recut all Statutory Tours (Staff) orders, taking away the “exempted” portion. We lost a lot of airline folks (they were 5 years maxed out) who didn’t have previous ETP’s in place to keep them on station and not have Delta or any others come a knock’n. (That was ignited by an Airline push(meetings) in 2013-15.)

ETP - Exception To Policy

[SocialD]

13 hours ago, AirGuardianC141747 said:

Totally getting screwed without ANY doubt!!! Did something change or did your Commander(s) make a “deal” they shouldn’t have. I retired from the 601 AOC Homeland Defense / home of the ONE mission which scrambles ya’ll(assets). Gas Tanks were covered and so were the pointy folks - where is the disconnect?

SAF/MR exempted Air Reserve Component (ARC) members who volunteered for active duty under section 12301(d) of Title 10, Unites States Code, in direct or indirect support of Operation NOBLE EAGLE....

And several others such as OEF, OIF, etc. were/are covered as well.

*Back in May 2015 - SAF/MR recut all Statutory Tours (Staff) orders, taking away the “exempted” portion. We lost a lot of airline folks (they were 5 years maxed out) who didn’t have previous ETP’s in place to keep them on station and not have Delta or any others come a knock’n. (That was ignited by an Airline push(meetings) in 2013-15.)

ETP - Exception To Policy

 

Well I'm guessing it's kinda like how the NGB staff takes care of themselves with USERRA exempt orders (though I heard those are getting cut as well), but the peons don't get the same.  For us fighters, our alert orders are title 32 and we only get a title 10 day IF we have a real world scramble, and only for that day.  I've sat alert at two other units and it's the same everywhere.  They've been "talking" about getting them USERRA exempt for quite some time, but it gets shot down year after year.  It's part of the reason I don't sit alert anymore.  

Edited March 7, 2020 by SocialD

[Duck]

 
Well I'm guessing it's kinda like how the NGB staff takes care of themselves with USERRA exempt orders (though I heard those are getting cut as well), but the peons don't get the same.  For us fighters, our alert orders are title 32 and we only get a title 10 day IF we have a real world scramble, and only for that day.  I've sat alert at two other units and it's the same everywhere.  They've been "talking" about getting them USERRA exempt for quite some time, but it gets shot down year after year.  It's part of the reason I don't sit alert anymore.  

Is this Alpha Alert? Launch within 30mins? I know some units that have a Bravo line and it doesn’t seem to be as good of a deal as we have here.


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[brabus]

We don’t call it A/B, but yes, it’s faster than A. Title 32, non-exempt...Just another fuck job, courtesy of NGB.