2020 UPT for Guardsmen

[GoGuard]

Rumor control:  I heard that active duty pulled (not sure how long ago) all of the 2020 UPT slots allocated for the ANG.  

Looking to see if anyone knows if that's true or not.  

[flammable]

false

[CharlieHotel47]

False... but it was a big cut. ANG had allocated funds for 150 slots. 19th AF (big blue) only approved about 90. Maintenance all across UPT bases was the main reason. Excess in students = un attainable maintenance cycles. Also AD and AFRC saw a decrease in pilot slots for FY20.


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[GoGuard]

Thanks, CH47.  

In your opinion, how can a Guardsman get a 2020 UPT slot... if at all?

[CharlieHotel47]

Thanks, CH47.  
In your opinion, how can a Guardsman get a 2020 UPT slot... if at all?

Your HARM can call A3 at NGB to get a feel if you’ll have to wait until FY21 or if A3 is still hoping to get a couple more slots here and there Before the year is over.


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[tarheelaviator]

On 1/11/2020 at 3:03 PM, CharlieHotel47 said:

False... but it was a big cut. ANG had allocated funds for 150 slots. 19th AF (big blue) only approved about 90. Maintenance all across UPT bases was the main reason. Excess in students = un attainable maintenance cycles. Also AD and AFRC saw a decrease in pilot slots for FY20.


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So this would indicate the rumors about the backlog at UPT have some truth to them?  A contact at Vance said they just don't have enough planes and instructors to get everyone through.  Seems unlikely they'll meet the goal of producing 1480 pilots if that's the case.  

[Tarawa565]

Guard guy here, just got dates for April UPT at Columbus. So, there's still hope. But, a lot of folks are being pushed out like that.

[brabus]

We only got one new hire into UPT in FY20...there definitely is a shortage of ANG slots. Hopefully FY21 is better.

[VigilanteNav]

Hate to add to a rumor mill but I think my sources tell me the UPT backlog in FY20 is very real.  In the AFROTC active duty world, we are hearing that all May 2020 commissionees will be waiting one year to go on AD orders to UPT.  In plain english, even on active duty, you will likely wait one year so May 2021 will be the earliest you will start UPT.  I'd imagine that hurts ANG start times too. 

[FlyingFisher]

53 minutes ago, VigilanteNav said:

Hate to add to a rumor mill but I think my sources tell me the UPT backlog in FY20 is very real.  In the AFROTC active duty world, we are hearing that all May 2020 commissionees will be waiting one year to go on AD orders to UPT.  In plain english, even on active duty, you will likely wait one year so May 2021 will be the earliest you will start UPT.  I'd imagine that hurts ANG start times too. 

I went through Wright-Pat with Guard dudes who have been assigned FY2020 dates for UPT as recently as last month. For some reason those of us waiting for UPT love starting rumors as a whole, but they're mostly unfounded, if you have access to the system you'll see that there are openings for most UPT classes for the remainder of the year. 

Having said that, maybe it will turn out that the rumors are true and we do have to wait, in which case I say we enjoy our time off. Play golf, go fly fishing, take up underwater basket weaving, knit a sweater for your mom and your dog. At the end of the day we all still won the lottery, a little longer wait than expected is still worth it.

[N730]

I went through Wright-Pat with Guard dudes who have been assigned FY2020 dates for UPT as recently as last month. For some reason those of us waiting for UPT love starting rumors as a whole, but they're mostly unfounded, if you have access to the system you'll see that there are openings for most UPT classes for the remainder of the year. 
Having said that, maybe it will turn out that the rumors are true and we do have to wait, in which case I say we enjoy our time off. Play golf, go fly fishing, take up underwater basket weaving, knit a sweater for your mom and your dog. At the end of the day we all still won the lottery, a little longer wait than expected is still worth it.

Will say it's not purely rumor. We have a guy who graduated OTS in December and is still waiting on dates. He's been told not to expect to go before October unless a spot unexpectedly opens up.

I guarantee the squadron wouldn't keep him on full time orders and pay him to wait around if it was possible to have him in UPT.

And I'm in a similar boat. I still don't have UPT dates while I'm starting OTS extremely soon.

Maybe it's an issue of T-38s vs T-1s, I don't know. But there's a real backlog that is causing a larger than normal break in training.

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[Sonofabone]

BLUF: UPT bases are drowning in students. Training squadrons and mx can’t keep up. Expect delays to continue to lengthen. 

 

Currently in phase 3, so can’t speak to the current delays in getting UPT dates, but for reference I graduated OTS in Aug 18 and didn’t start UPT til Jan 19 (Guard guy).
 

As for the delays at UPT, they are very real. Only 1 student from my original class graduated on time. Most of have rolled back 5 classes on the T1 side and 11 classes on the 38 side. T6s (phase 2) is taking 6+ weeks longer than planned to complete. I averaged 1 sortie a week for the entire first block of T6 training. Once T6 complete, current wait times are 3 months to start phase 3 academics for T1s and 4-6 months for 38s. Then expect to be rolled back 1,2,possibly 3 times once your on the flight line due to Mx, wx, scheduling, syllabus restraints, etc. 

The excessive numbers of students being pushed through the pipeline is slowing down everything. T6s are more reliable and better able to handle the increased sortie numbers, but still unable to keep students flying in regular intervals. T1s and 38s are much less reliable resulting in the ever increasing wait time from phase 2 to 3. I can only imagine that wait time will continue to increase until the pipeline is slowed down to allow the squadrons to catch up. 
 

Guard/reserve folks typically make out better in terms of getting washed back in phase 3 as they usually have follow on dates quickly after planned grad UPT grad dates. Active duty folks on the other hand are first to get washed back and do frequently. We had 8 washed back from our original phase 3 class in the first month, and expect to have 3-4 more before washed back before our planned grad date. 

[CharlieHotel47]

BLUF: UPT bases are drowning in students. Training squadrons and mx can’t keep up. Expect delays to continue to lengthen. 
 
Currently in phase 3, so can’t speak to the current delays in getting UPT dates, but for reference I graduated OTS in Aug 18 and didn’t start UPT til Jan 19 (Guard guy).
 
As for the delays at UPT, they are very real. Only 1 student from my original class graduated on time. Most of have rolled back 5 classes on the T1 side and 11 classes on the 38 side. T6s (phase 2) is taking 6+ weeks longer than planned to complete. I averaged 1 sortie a week for the entire first block of T6 training. Once T6 complete, current wait times are 3 months to start phase 3 academics for T1s and 4-6 months for 38s. Then expect to be rolled back 1,2,possibly 3 times once your on the flight line due to Mx, wx, scheduling, syllabus restraints, etc. 
The excessive numbers of students being pushed through the pipeline is slowing down everything. T6s are more reliable and better able to handle the increased sortie numbers, but still unable to keep students flying in regular intervals. T1s and 38s are much less reliable resulting in the ever increasing wait time from phase 2 to 3. I can only imagine that wait time will continue to increase until the pipeline is slowed down to allow the squadrons to catch up. 
 
Guard/reserve folks typically make out better in terms of getting washed back in phase 3 as they usually have follow on dates quickly after planned grad UPT grad dates. Active duty folks on the other hand are first to get washed back and do frequently. We had 8 washed back from our original phase 3 class in the first month, and expect to have 3-4 more before washed back before our planned grad date. 

What UPT base are you out of?


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[Sonofabone]

I plead the 5th, however, I do believe the other two bases are in marginally better shape.

 

edited for stupidity 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Sonofabone