Running out of steam...

[RunningOutOfSteam]

Dudes/Dudettes,

 

I don't know where else to turn but I'm running out of steam for this whole process. Life is getting me down. It's been my dream to fly fighters since I was a kid but there were a lot of hiccups on the way there, but I'm still not even at the finish line. I haven't landed any fighter interviews yet and I've broadened my horizons to AD to try my hand there. But I missed this board because my recruiter wouldn't talk to me or would take too long to respond. Below are my stats:

AFOQT: P99 N89 AA33 V35 Q31

PCSM: 99

GPA: 3.07 (English)

Flight Hours: 23 (Solo)

The kicker is, I'm 31. I was so stoked to see the age limit be raised to 33 but I'm running out of time. AGAIN. I'm not doing well in my day job and it's super stressful. I'm in a Part 61 school, money is tight, so I just stopped doing flying lessons because I can't afford them anymore. I don't really know what to do anymore and where to turn. I know fighters is a long shot but if anyone can just give me some hope in my situation I would really appreciate that. 

[BashiChuni]

it's never been a better time to try and snag a fighter. The (fighter) pilot shortage won't be solved anytime soon.

The only sure way you won't get a fighter is if you quit. Make the air force tell you no. and when they do, make them tell you no again. and again. and again.

also, own everything. did you miss the board b/c of your recruiter? or in hindsight was there something you could have done differently to not miss the board? no one cares about excuses. work harder!

don't give up!

 

[gear3green]

4 hours ago, 5thGenProdigy said:

Dudes/Dudettes,

 

I don't know where else to turn but I'm running out of steam for this whole process. Life is getting me down. It's been my dream to fly fighters since I was a kid but there were a lot of hiccups on the way there, but I'm still not even at the finish line. I haven't landed any fighter interviews yet and I've broadened my horizons to AD to try my hand there. But I missed this board because my recruiter wouldn't talk to me or would take too long to respond. Below are my stats:

AFOQT: P99 N89 AA33 V35 Q31

PCSM: 99

GPA: 3.07 (English)

Flight Hours: 23 (Solo)

The kicker is, I'm 31. I was so stoked to see the age limit be raised to 33 but I'm running out of time. AGAIN. I'm not doing well in my day job and it's super stressful. I'm in a Part 61 school, money is tight, so I just stopped doing flying lessons because I can't afford them anymore. I don't really know what to do anymore and where to turn. I know fighters is a long shot but if anyone can just give me some hope in my situation I would really appreciate that. 

Dude! Check this out. Right now you don’t deserve a fighter. If you have this quitter mentality then I don’t want you as my wing man. Tracking? If you want a fighter slot stop being a little bitch about it and go pursue them. The guys that tracked 38s in my class (including me) didn’t around being little bitches. Your attitude is everything. Also I know I sound like a heard ass but bro I just want to be able to get you in that fighter mentality. Don’t ###ucking give up! Much love! 

[DifferentViper]

Whole person concept. Are you visiting units? There is at least one guy on the forum with quite a bit lower stats than you that got fighters (ANG I think) and he is only a couple years younger.

I was dumped off a full ride ROTC scholarship at an out of state school and ended up over 80k in debt. I did bad on my first tbas. My mom's word of encouragement was "maybe it's not meant to be". Second time i practiced and nailed it. I ran out of money to keep flying after 11 hours. At 28yo I went to my parents for help. After i got hired i was denied a trip to MEPS 3 times but finally got there. I was DQ at meps for something they had in my medical history before i ever got there. I've been denied a waiver twice and I'm trying it again. Even though I'm probably going to get denied again I'm going to keep pressing on till my squadron gives up on me because I'm not ready to give up. So yeah things don't always go to plan and for our generation when we were in our prime fighters were rare. Sometimes luck and timing aren't on your side. All you can do is take ownership and make the best of it. Also you have a few years for heavies so keep that in mind. Many times the advice on the forum is its not what you fly that makes the experience great.

Also after meps an opportunity came up at work but i didn't pursue it because i figured i was going to be a pilot soon so it didn't matter. After the waiver was denied it occurred to me that i can't stop flying the plane of life until i land it. Get your job in order because you need it to keep focusing on the hunt. Imagine trying to visit units while unemployed. 

TLDR: visit units, keep trying even after you get some no's, get your job straight. 

Hopefully you take something positive from that even if it's to laugh at my misfortune.

[ryleypav]

Are fighters a hard stop for you? What about heavies? Sure its not pointy nose, go fast, shoot bad guys flying, but its still an important mission set. I guess you need to make the choice between fighters or bust or just flat out being able to fly in the military. Start tossing out apps everywhere. Have you rushed any units you've applied to? If they allow it, that can help out with the age thing. There are 7 fighter UPT postings on bogidope right now. Have you applied to them all? Like everyone else is saying, dont stop until they tell you to. And then keep trying some more. 

[ctf151]

Fire your recruiter. 

[tarheelaviator]

As someone who is also trying the active duty route while doing the Guard/Reserve circuit find another recruiter.  You are under NO obligation to use the regional LO recruiter.  I'm in a similar situation.  My recruiter for the last AD board made me think I had to put down an alternate job other than pilot (I put down CSO so he would push my paperwork through).  Naturally I got selected for CSO and wasn't interested.  He lost patience with me and refused to let reapply for another board for 12 MONTHS.  

I then just started cold calling recruiters all across the country until I found someone who is amicable to my cause and is now helping me apply for the next open active duty rated board due in May (wanted to apply for the January one but nobody could get me in before the deadline).  

TLDR for everyone seeking active duty (or any other) recruiters:

1.  Only put down pilot for jobs you want (you aren't required to put alternates)

2.  Don't like your recruiter or they aren't working with you?  Find another.

3.  Don't admit anything medically that they won't find on your physical.  I made that mistake and it took me YEARS to get a medical waiver (finally achieved just last year).  Everything you say can and WILL be used against you.  No reward for medical honesty.  I'm not saying lie but don't shoot yourself in the foot.

Edited January 28, 2020 by tarheelaviator

[Unit#8192]

To piggy back on what everyone else has said here it ultimately comes down to how bad you want it.

As stated above, are you visiting units? Are you being honest with yourself in terms of making sure you've improved everything that you're able to control? You mentioned work being stressful and you're not doing well with that so I'd suggest getting that in order. Starting with that and performing the best with where you currently are is an absolute must and ties to the whole person concept. As a person, regardless of your goals you owe that to yourself to do the absolute best you can with where you are regardless of what your dreams. I don't care if you work at a fast food restaurant be the best at your craft. Do this and do it now with the internal satisfaction that comes with that. Be sure you're working out consistently.

There's nothing wrong with holding off on flight time for the moment and I had to do the same. I came back after an 8 month hiatus and eventually I was able to get my license although I still had some adversity to deal with due to losing an instructor, having to get an additional 18 hours in another plane due to that plane being sold without any notice. 

If you want AD, kudos to you...It's long been said that the "fighters or bust attitude" won't serve you well. Especially with AD as it's needs of the AF at the time, performance, timing and luck. Not knocking your goal but if you're selected for AD there's a real possibility you can perform at a level that may allow you to track 38s and come assignment night there are no fighter's available to you at your pick. What would you do then? What I'm getting at is If you want Fighters keep applying everywhere although in the meantime I'd do some soul searching and consider what more important to you. I "thought" i wanted fighters when I was applying from 2012-2014 but I wasn't competitive and I wasted my time being under the age limit chasing an uphill dream. I came to the realization I'd be happy flying anything and It was more important to earn the right to go to training and fly anything versus nothing at all. Now, I'm 36 and it's a little bit different of a situation as I need an age waiver. If you're applying AD you 100% must have the attitude that you'll fly anything and grow where you're planted.

I would also suggest checking out bogidope if you haven't done so already for package review. 

Happy hunting

[mightymighty]

It took me two years, 16 fighter boards (applied to some twice, one of them three times), and quite a few visits to get hired.

A couple of things from my personal experience:

Make friends with the other applicants you meet

I only got interviews from places I had visited at least twice

I never got an interview from a place I didn't visit

When I was tight on money I skipped the hotel and did a same day round trip to visit the unit, especially if the unit only did a "during the day meet and greet." 

Another option is the good ole' 20$/night air bnb's you can find almost anywhere. In Fresno - my 20$ airbnb was a bedroom next to their kids room in the ghetto - it was weird - but I had a place to sleep. 

I had about the same scores as you for AFOQT but you had a better GPA than me (2.6 in Marketing)

I can't say if you will get hired or not - but I can tell you the ones who don't get hired are the ones who quit. 

[JeremiahWeed]

15 hours ago, gear3green said:

Dude! Check this out. Right now you don’t deserve a fighter. If you have this quitter mentality then I don’t want you as my wing man. Tracking? If you want a fighter slot stop being a little bitch about it and go pursue them. The guys that tracked 38s in my class (including me) didn’t around being little bitches. Your attitude is everything. Also I know I sound like a heard ass but bro I just want to be able to get you in that fighter mentality. Don’t ###ucking give up! Much love! 

Nice attempt with the hardass, no slack message. It definitely needed to be delivered to our young-ish wannabe. But.....We’re gonna need to see this again (phhssst.....sound of beer can opening before step).😉

If you’re going to do the finger in the chest attitude adjustment, just do it.  Don’t tell them you’re doing it while apologizing and for fcks sake..........Much love?  YGBSM! 

Edited January 28, 2020 by JeremiahWeed

[Slick]

Keep pushing.  

Retake the AFOQT if you can and find another recruiter to work with.  Get your work situation straightened out...assume your potential squadron is going to call your manager and ask about you...you'd want nothing short of a glowing review, right?     

As others have suggested, consider reconsidering only wanting fighters.  

Edited January 28, 2020 by Slick

[ctf151]

3 hours ago, Slick said:

Keep pushing.  

Retake the AFOQT if you can and find another recruiter to work with.  Get your work situation straightened out...assume your potential squadron is going to call your manager and ask about you...you'd want nothing short of a glowing review, right?     

As others have suggested, consider reconsidering only wanting fighters.  

Is it really worth it to risk losing the 99 pilot score?

[N730]

I'm honestly not convinced this isn't a troll.

If it's not, I'm very surprised. I didn't know you could get a 99 PCSM with that few hours.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app

[Slick]

55 minutes ago, ctf151 said:

Is it really worth it to risk losing the 99 pilot score?

Yes.  The pilot section is easy.  At worst he'll likely get in the mid 90's the second time around.  Whatever hit his PCSM score might take from a slightly lower pilot score he can make up for by building more flight hours.  

[Jester203]

3 hours ago, N730 said:

I didn't know you could get a 99 PCSM with that few hours.
 

Somewhat out of my lane here as just another applicant, but a 99 with 23 hrs is not possible according to Bogidope's description of scoring: https://bogidope.com/civilian-to-guard-or-reserve/the-pilot-candidate-selection-method-pcsm-score-explained-part-2/

However, some units ask for your PCSM at the 201+ hours level and he could unconsciously be referring to that.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Jester203

[PlanePhlyer]

If shit was easy dude, everybody would do it. I’ve been on hiring boards and been around the block a few minutes and can say that scores aren’t everything. Age 31 with 23 flight hours isn’t a great feat, AFOQT Pilot is great, PCSM sold. GPA, slightly average, Do you do anything interesting to bolster your resume? Don’t quit flying, find a way. Other applicants will find a way and they will get an interview nod over you. Don’t be a Debbie Downer, hope wont get you anywhere. If you want that shit, put your big boy pants on and go for it. Apply to every Guard/Reserve unit in Merica, keep flying, and get another job of you need to. How bad do you want it. 

[cowdog]

I know life gets hard and beats you down sometimes, but don't let it win. Keep fighting, and spread out your options if you're not getting any success. You need to take a realistic look at yourself and check if you're going about this the right way - maybe you need to start applying to heavy units if you're getting old? Maybe you need to stop making excuses and find a way to earn your PPL? Maybe you need to rush harder to show a unit you're worth the waiver? I got kicked out of ROTC over 4 years ago for several dumb mistakes I made with alcohol, and had to pay my scholarship back. I still found a way to pay for my PPL, worked hard at a job I hated, and interviewed at 9 different units over the span of 4 years before getting hired.  Some people didn't even want to interview me because of the hurdles of getting a moral waiver (which I was able to get from the unit that saw my motivation and potential).  Now I'm currently waiting to leave for OTS sometime this spring.

Here's the bottom line - if you want this, take responsibility and make it happen. Sometimes life deals you shitty situations, and sometimes you create them yourself - either way, it's what you learn and how you respond. If you really want to be in the military, you need to sack up and stop making excuses if this is really your dream. I feel for you bro, don't give up.

Edited February 6, 2020 by cowdog

[VigilanteNav]

On 1/28/2020 at 8:49 PM, N730 said:

I'm honestly not convinced this isn't a troll.

If it's not, I'm very surprised. I didn't know you could get a 99 PCSM with that few hours.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Baseops Network mobile app
 

Nailed it.  I'm quite positive that 5thGenProdigies don't quit when the going gets tough (like when they are up against swarms of lower gen Chinese fighters for example).  This is coming from a Nav (who used to shoot the stars to get a three star fix) who has had plenty of pilots tell him to STFU Nav and other pleasantries. Buck up bronco and go get it if you want it!