Finally done in Afghanistan?

[Hawg15]

2 hours ago, SPAWNmaster said:

Did you guys actually read the article? They just put in stipulations for the withdrawal, which for the most part appear to be reasonable. Always set performance gates, if you hit them you get a cookie. If you don’t, then you hook the ride. Aside from the partisan headline not sure what the issue is here. 

There is no measurable or attainable stipulations for withdrawal in their proposal. It’s just a vague “it can’t threaten us” that will be used to oppose anyone who tries to stop sending our kids to die in a pointless conflict that started before they were even born and accomplishes nothing. Anyone who actually supports troops in Afghanistan is part of the problem in our government and military. There isn’t a good reason to be there, or a good outcome, Russia and now the US has proven that.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Hawg15

[SurelySerious]

32 minutes ago, SPAWNmaster said:

Did you guys actually read the article? They just put in stipulations for the withdrawal, which for the most part appear to be reasonable. Always set performance gates, if you hit them you get a cookie. If you don’t, then you hook the ride. Aside from the partisan headline not sure what the issue is here. 

What has been the measurable performance over the last 19 years?

[SocialD]

42 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

What has been the measurable performance over the last 19 years?

Last time I was there it seemed to be based on how many little rocks we could make out of big rocks.  

[brabus]

17 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Last time I was there it seemed to be based on how many little rocks we could make out of big rocks.  

“We need 69 min POL before you can drop $100k worth of weapons on this desolate pile of rocks”.

[Lawman]

Left June 1.

The war has been pretty much over since Feb. The token drone strikes have been the best way of us yelling at our unruly children to “keep it down over there.”

For the most part it’s like an agreeable breakup between us and the Taliban. We want out, they want us out, and after killing 3 generations of them continuously it won’t be shortly remembered that despite the rhetoric we have the ability to come in the night and take them like the boogie man at will.

The only people clamoring for a fight is ISIS-K (reference IDF strikes on Bagram and Kabul). They are just trying to keeps us there because as soon as we are gone they are going to get spit roasted by the Taliban and the regular Afghan security forces.


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[HU&W]

10 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

What has been the measurable performance over the last 19 years?

Performance is measured through OCO funding. 

[SurelySerious]

33 minutes ago, HU&W said:

Performance is measured through OCO funding. 

Checks, and is about the only thing I can imagine Liz Cheney chalking up. 

[SocialD]

9 hours ago, HU&W said:

Performance is measured through OCO funding. 

 

If only we could select both the laugh and cry buttons.  

[Clark Griswold]

12 hours ago, Lawman said:

The only people clamoring for a fight is ISIS-K (reference IDF strikes on Bagram and Kabul). They are just trying to keeps us there because as soon as we are gone they are going to get spit roasted by the Taliban and the regular Afghan security forces.

Then let's leave tomorrow.

I hope the neo-cons are completely alone in Congress for this, I don't see anyone in their right mind supporting this and no matter how severe the case of Trump Derangement Syndrome, the D's won't support this.

If we pay them off to keep them for overrunning Kabul for 6 to 9 months after leave, worth every penny. 

If we can keep the ANA and recognized gov together with money, duct tape and twine for a few years, worth every penny.  

[Lawman]

Then let's leave tomorrow.
I hope the neo-cons are completely alone in Congress for this, I don't see anyone in their right mind supporting this and no matter how severe the case of Trump Derangement Syndrome, the D's won't support this.
If we pay them off to keep them for overrunning Kabul for 6 to 9 months after leave, worth every penny. 
If we can keep the ANA and recognized gov together with money, duct tape and twine for a few years, worth every penny.  

Just like moving forward forces out of Syria to avoid the cross fire of a NATO “ally” and Russian forces was fought tooth and nail by people who didn’t want us there in the first place... so will this be a “OMG Trump” issue.
They want to leave, but they have to oppose leaving until they like the conditions/plan.

Fact of the matter is they will never approve of any executable plan Trump has, but they know they can sport bitch the whole time and oppose him while he will leave because it’s what he said and what they oppose. They both get to play to their respective bases and make political talking points and YouTube clips for campaigning.

Meanwhile we get to finally stop pissing away combat power and attrition the force no matter which group of political talking heads “wins.”

Let’s do this. If I ever go back to Afghanistan it will be too damn soon.


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[Clark Griswold]

Let’s do this. If I ever go back to Afghanistan it will be too damn soon.
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Amen


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[frog]

12 minutes ago, Lawman said:

If I ever go back to Afghanistan it will be too damn soon.

Word.

[BashiChuni]

Word. They’ve had 20 years to take their country where they want it. Screw em. C ya. 

[SurelySerious]

Multiplying by Zero: Our Afghanistan policies may be insurmountably antithetical to Afghan culture

And we knew it at least nine years ago. 
 

Edit: posted in the Read File in 2011 by Learjetter, I take no credit for discovering it. 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by SurelySerious

[HuggyU2]

Thanks for posting that.  I found that article in 2011 when I was over there.  I couldn't recall the title and hadn't been able to find it since. 

Well worth the read.  

[Danger41]

Great read. The author completely nailed it.

[SurelySerious]

Some analysis on mission creep; I’ve long thought this the problem. What was the desired end state?

https://www.csis.org/analysis/tell-me-how-ends-military-advice-strategic-goals-and-forever-war-afghanistan

[12xu2a3x3]

good film touching on some Afghan history if you've never seen it: Bitter Lake

[SurelySerious]

15 minutes ago, 12xu2a3x3 said:

good film touching on some Afghan history if you've never seen it: Bitter Lake

I was 80% sure it was going to be one of those Rick rolls you cant exit out of...just like the war in Afghanistan. 

[Orbit]

That place is a shithole, who gives a shit who controls that wretched place.  

Let's GTFO now.

[12xu2a3x3]

On 7/6/2020 at 11:12 PM, SurelySerious said:

I was 80% sure it was going to be one of those Rick rolls you cant exit out of...just like the war in Afghanistan. 

i think humor in 2020 is just suggesting someone watch a three hour documentary about some horrible material reality

[Clark Griswold]

Congress wants to stay the course...

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/20/nearly-all-lawmakers-at-house-armed-services-committee-hearing-opposed-afghanistan-troop-drawdown/

Just leave, tell them to fly everybody out in 69 C-17s and leave whatever is not classified, a weapon and/or scuttle it as a final F you to the Taliban.

2500 guys in perpetuity to do what?  In a landlocked shithole surrounded by unfriendly nations to our causes.  There is nothing there for us anymore. 

#Choirpreach, but just leave POTUS, it's your last thing to do on your watch on the long fight against the Swamp.

[CharlieHotel47]

Take everything important back home and dump everything else in the old poo-pond at KAF. What a waste of time, people and money it would be to “stay the course”.


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[Homestar]

I will completely give Trump credit for winding these wars down. Here’s an example where Congress and the defense industrial complex are actually being war-checked by the President. 
 

I’d rather the numbers be no more than a marine detachment at the embassy and a few high level defense liasons but I’ll take what I can get. 

[Clark Griswold]

With "friends" like these:

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/11/21/merkels-germany-tells-trump-not-to-bring-troops-home-from-afghanistan/

From the article:

Conservative German MP Roderich Kiesewetter said that the United States is “morally obligated” to rebuild the Afghani military and civil society, saying in September: “A hasty and rash withdrawal would only lead to the collapse of social structures and the return of organized violence of all kinds.”

The Germans do not appear to be considering filling the gap left by a potential American withdrawal with their own forces, however.

They have the capability, money but apparently not the will for this mission they claim to care so much for.  Given the size of our footprint and their resources, even modestly growing their armed forces to just cover this mission or make it their focus is feasible.  If NATO is so interested in this, just do it without us.

Add this as one more thing to do POTUS, offer to transfer intel, bases and missions to them to continue the Afghanistan Project, do it publicly and hold their feet to the fire.  The American and European MSM will either bury it or spin it as bullying but who cares at this point.