Finally done in Afghanistan?

[SocialD]

  On 8/12/2021 at 12:30 PM, pawnman said:

So Trump is too dangerous for Twitter, but a literal terrorist organization is good to go?

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Because in their minds, Trump is worse than a terrorists.  These are the types of people that are trying to steer our nation...

[fire4effect]

I guess I had an epiphany of sorts when I realized in my mind that those who were willing to join the Afghan Military/Police as patriotic as they were could never be completely combat effective for one big reason. Namely because the Taliban was always embedded in the fabric of society and would always be able threaten family members somewhere in the country. I mean how effective would we be if we knew that our families would be under constant real threats at home every day. That said the Taliban are now in the open sts and taking over government building/police stations etc. If you ask me they're more concentrated and easier to kill wholesale even on our way out the door.

You'd think after seeing what happened in Iraq after the first withdrawal we'd have learned our lesson.

Edited August 12, 2021 by fire4effect
spellun

[di1630]

The afghanis deserve to live under the Taliban. 20 yrs of assistance from a superpower and they still can’t stand. F em

[FLEA]

  On 8/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, di1630 said:

The afghanis deserve to live under the Taliban. 20 yrs of assistance from a superpower and they still can’t stand. F em

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We only half assed it though. I don't think the Taliban can be defeated if we don't snuff the root which is the materiel support they're getting from Pakistan. 

[fire4effect]

  On 8/12/2021 at 3:16 PM, FLEA said:

We only half assed it though. I don't think the Taliban can be defeated if we don't snuff the root which is the materiel support they're getting from Pakistan. 

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THIS!

[gearhog]

Well, that’s a wrap. All is lost. 
 

 

[arg]

  On 8/12/2021 at 1:24 PM, fire4effect said:

I guess I had an epiphany of sorts when I realized in my mind that those who were willing to join the Afghan Military/Police as patriotic as they were could never be completely combat effective for one big reason. Namely because the Taliban was always embedded in the fabric of society and would always be able threaten family members somewhere in the country. I mean how effective would we be if we knew that our families would be under constant real threats at home every day. That said the Taliban are now in the open sts and taking over government building/police stations etc. If you ask me they're more concentrated and easier to kill wholesale even on our way out the door.

You'd think after seeing what happened in Iraq after the first withdrawal we'd have learned our lesson.

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Your statement would also apply to Viet Nam. 

[fire4effect]

  On 8/12/2021 at 9:21 PM, arg said:

Your statement would also apply to Viet Nam. 

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Interesting point you make as I was just recalling a close family relative who's a Viet Nam Vet and how

he recalled how it hit him every time he saw the famous picture of the helicopter on the embassy roof in Saigon

[di1630]

  On 8/12/2021 at 3:16 PM, FLEA said:

We only half assed it though. I don't think the Taliban can be defeated if we don't snuff the root which is the materiel support they're getting from Pakistan. 

No, at some point the population needs to take responsibility. A whole generation has been raised under our protection, 20 years to learn to fight and govern themselves. F-ck them. They’ll get used to Taliban rule….again.

[arg]

  On 8/12/2021 at 10:22 PM, fire4effect said:

Interesting point you make as I was just recalling a close family relative who's a Viet Nam Vet and how

he recalled how it hit him every time he saw the famous picture of the helicopter on the embassy roof in Saigon

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I think the last thing we got (half) right was Korea. In conflicts since then the MIC was directing the battle. Some politicians made a lot of money on the blood of our brothers.

[jrizzell]

  On 8/12/2021 at 3:16 PM, FLEA said:

We only half assed it though. I don't think the Taliban can be defeated if we don't snuff the root which is the materiel support they're getting from Pakistan. 

We will never beat the Taliban. This is a religious war to them. They don’t care or accept our American way of life, they will wait in the mountains until we decide it’s time to leave, then they will drive back into the cities and take over. We’ve lost time, individual lives, and Trillions of dollars, and we still don’t understand the enemy. Unless we plan on staying and fighting there forever, this is the reality of Afghanistan.


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[FLEA]

  On 8/13/2021 at 3:13 AM, jrizzell said:

 

We will never beat the Taliban. This is a religious war to them. They don’t care or accept our American way of life, they will wait in the mountains until we decide it’s time to leave, then they will drive back into the cities and take over. We’ve lost time, individual lives, and Trillions of dollars, and we still don’t understand the enemy. Unless we plan on staying and fighting there forever, this is the reality of Afghanistan.


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Yes but they werent waiting in the mountains. They were waiting in Pakistan. Pakistan was providing them haven, training, money and weapons for the last 20 years. We willingly allowed it because Pakistan was also providing us Intel on the where abouts of mid level Al Queda operatives (but not senior leadership). 

Look I'm not advocating we stay or go back. Far from it. But let's not pretend this is a fight Afghanistan can win right now. They are a fledgling state with few resources essentially up against a regional military power (Pakistan). Pakistan does not want the current government of Afghanistan in power. They do want the Taliban in power. 

[FLEA]

  On 8/12/2021 at 11:16 PM, di1630 said:

No, at some point the population needs to take responsibility. A whole generation has been raised under our protection, 20 years to learn to fight and govern themselves. F-ck them. They’ll get used to Taliban rule….again.

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Dude I understand this experience makes you jaded and bitter, but I have good friends who are Afghan officers, still fighting, and they will likely be executed in the next 2-3 months. Don't generalize them. Noone went to Afghanistan for 3-4 months and suddenly understands their culture and politics. 

 

[Bode]

  On 8/13/2021 at 7:40 AM, FLEA said:

Dude I understand this experience makes you jaded and bitter, but I have good friends who are Afghan officers, still fighting, and they will likely be executed in the next 2-3 months. Don't generalize them. Noone went to Afghanistan for 3-4 months and suddenly understands their culture and politics. 
 

I completely agree. I’m expecting some of those great men that I advised not making it to the end of this year. It’s sad, all they want is a safe free country for their family and now they lost (most likely)


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[DUNBAR]

  On 8/12/2021 at 12:30 PM, pawnman said:

So Trump is too dangerous for Twitter, but a literal terrorist organization is good to go?

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Wait'll Jack Dorcy realizes the Taliban refuses masks AND the jab.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Our history dictates that we have very poor exit strategies. When another snake head pops up, here we go again. It is what it is.

[fire4effect]

  On 8/13/2021 at 7:40 AM, FLEA said:

Dude I understand this experience makes you jaded and bitter, but I have good friends who are Afghan officers, still fighting, and they will likely be executed in the next 2-3 months. Don't generalize them. Noone went to Afghanistan for 3-4 months and suddenly understands their culture and politics. 

 

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Yes, this is what hits me personally the most.

[pbar]

  On 8/13/2021 at 7:39 AM, FLEA said:

Yes but they werent waiting in the mountains. They were waiting in Pakistan. Pakistan was providing them haven, training, money and weapons for the last 20 years. We willingly allowed it because Pakistan was also providing us Intel on the where abouts of mid level Al Queda operatives (but not senior leadership). 

Look I'm not advocating we stay or go back. Far from it. But let's not pretend this is a fight Afghanistan can win right now. They are a fledgling state with few resources essentially up against a regional military power (Pakistan). Pakistan does not want the current government of Afghanistan in power. They do want the Taliban in power. 

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I think we can all agree the Pakistanis are a wicked lot.

[Guest]

  On 8/12/2021 at 12:30 PM, pawnman said:

So Trump is too dangerous for Twitter, but a literal terrorist organization is good to go?

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Now you're starting to understand @pawnman. Keep digging, you're getting closer. 

 

20 years of money and blood, all for nothing. What an utter clown world. Better don your red noses and believe in clown world gentlemen, we're in one 🤡.

[Guest]

  On 8/12/2021 at 1:24 PM, fire4effect said:

I guess I had an epiphany of sorts when I realized in my mind that those who were willing to join the Afghan Military/Police as patriotic as they were could never be completely combat effective for one big reason. Namely because the Taliban was always embedded in the fabric of society and would always be able threaten family members somewhere in the country. I mean how effective would we be if we knew that our families would be under constant real threats at home every day. That said the Taliban are now in the open sts and taking over government building/police stations etc. If you ask me they're more concentrated and easier to kill wholesale even on our way out the door.

You'd think after seeing what happened in Iraq after the first withdrawal we'd have learned our lesson.

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It's like a mafia. For a hypothetical, one would need to literally build a parallel society for all the family members of the ANA/Police to live in (like a military base) to have protection while the nation builds its strength, so as to avoid the threats to the ANA/Police family members. Ridiculously expensive, mega-infrastructure project, that still probably wouldn't pan out in real life because then there's a dichotomy between those families and the people that aren't in the protected bases, so tensions rise from differences. And if you put every person in the protected area, the ones who are not family, then logically, no one is in a protected area. Interesting thought game. End of the day, it was all for nothing, our brothers and sisters died so the U.S. could play world police. We have to do better.

Edited August 13, 2021 by dogfish78
Typo.

[FDNYOldGuy]

  On 8/13/2021 at 10:30 PM, dogfish78 said:

20 years of money and blood, all for nothing.

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“War is a racket. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.”

-General Smedley Butler

[lloyd christmas]

In just a couple days we are going to see endless footage of an American embassy overrun by militant terrorists.  Just about the worst optics we can have on the international stage.  

[jrizzell]

  On 8/14/2021 at 2:54 PM, lloyd christmas said:

In just a couple days we are going to see endless footage of an American embassy overrun by militant terrorists.  Just about the worst optics we can have on the international stage.  

No the raising of a Taliban flag over the US Embassy on the 20th anniversary of September 11th will be worse…and that’s what they’re planning on doing


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[lloyd christmas]

  On 8/14/2021 at 3:09 PM, jrizzell said:

No the raising of a Taliban flag over the US Embassy on the 20th anniversary of September 11th will be worse…and that’s what they’re planning on doing


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Damn.  Hadn’t heard that.  

[Clark Griswold]

  On 8/14/2021 at 2:54 PM, lloyd christmas said:

In just a couple days we are going to see endless footage of an American embassy overrun by militant terrorists.  Just about the worst optics we can have on the international stage.  

Blow it up as the last helicopter flies clear
Start planning the B-2 round the world strike now
Enjoy your rubble…


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