Finally done in Afghanistan?

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, BroncoEN said:

Interesting quote from BBC:

"I have little doubt that it's going to hurt Biden," says Christopher Phelps, an associate professor of American Studies at the University of Nottingham. "It's going to be viewed as a loss, and possibly as a disgrace - it really was his call, fairly or not."

Highlights the political nature of presidency, regardless of what deals (one, two, or three terms before you) were enacted. 

They have had 7+ months to execute some form of operation that didn't result in the optics that occured the last couple of days.  Regardless of what "deal" they were "stuck" with, the last two days didn't have to go down the way they did.   He and the rest of the DOS/DOD own that at a minimum.  

[AirGuardianC141747]

If not already mentioned, C17 landing gear is the last large aircraft gear I would attempt take a ride and survive on. Turn, twist, fold, retract, etc. Not good odds even for me having flown her for well over a decade out of Afghanistan alone. It’s just a mess…

 

[pbar]

I know one thing, if I ever hear another Army or Marine general officer saying only boots on the ground can win wars, I'm going to vomit.  Airpower may not win wars by itself, but it hasn't lost any either.  Only due to the heroic efforts of Army/Marine NCOs and CGOs did the fecklessness of our generals in Afghanistan not turn into a disaster 10 years sooner.

Edited August 17, 2021 by pbar
wording

[ClearedHot]

As a counter to Brian Williams a former CIA analyst pushes back on the POTUS speech and his narrative placing all the blame at the feet of the Afghan Army.  While I agree they should fight for their own country and certainly not an excuse for the rapid capitulation of the Afghan Army but some context at least to what they faced.  As an example the Afghan Army took more losses every year than we did in 20, they were rarely paid, barely fed (except by us), and in general not properly supported by their government. 

 

[DUNBAR]

Just now, ClearedHot said:

As a counter to Brian Williams a former CIA analyst pushes back on the POTUS speech and his narrative placing all the blame at the feet of the Afghan Army.  While I agree they should fight for their own country and certainly not an excuse for the rapid capitulation of the Afghan Army but some context at least to what they faced.  As an example the Afghan Army took more losses every year than we did in 20, they were rarely paid, barely fed (except by us), and in general not properly supported by their government. 

 

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/pj-gladnick/2021/08/17/brian-williams-slapped-unwelcome-afghanistan-truth-bomb-guest

 

[slc]

The other concept which is relevant in this case is the fact that the Afghan culture is based on constantly shifting alliances with whoever happens to hold the most power at the time.  ANA was "slowly" crumbling the last few months.  Soldiers saw the inevitable and began to change side en masse.

[slc]

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Air Force up and running!!  Good lord

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, slc said:

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Air Force up and running!!  Good lord

I wonder if the Taliban is training their pilots with VR headsets...

[ClearedHot]

A Taliban Commander who helped seize the Afghan Presidential Palace spent nearly six years at Guantanamo, where he told a guard "we will get you on the outside."

In an assessment before he was released, Pentagon officials said that Ruhani posed a "medium" threat to the US, since he had family in "anti-coalition militia entities," and would likely join such groups if released and take part in attacks against US forces in Afghanistan.

So that worked out well.

 

[dudebro]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

A Taliban Commander who helped seize the Afghan Presidential Palace spent nearly six years at Guantanamo, where he told a guard "we will get you on the outside."

In an assessment before he was released, Pentagon officials said that Ruhani posed a "medium" threat to the US, since he had family in "anti-coalition militia entities," and would likely join such groups if released and take part in attacks against US forces in Afghanistan.

So that worked out well.

 

Swapped with Bergdahl too I believe

[Prozac]

14 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

IT'S REAL. Hahaahhhahah! The federal government is intentionally crumbling before our eyes. Grab your horns and squirting flowers, the circus is here!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 How long until Fort Sumpter 2.0?

So the VA reaching out to veterans who may be distressed over current events is a joke to you? If you’ve been around for a while, I’d be willing to bet you’ve lost at least one or two squadron mates to suicide. If you’re new and you haven’t, steel yourself because you very likely will. Personally, I’ve seen my fair share, including a couple of friends for whom I never would’ve thought that would be an option. I’m all for ANYONE who reaches out & promotes veterans’ mental health. 

[ClearedHot]

5 minutes ago, Prozac said:

So the VA reaching out to veterans who may be distressed over current events is a joke to you? If you’ve been around for a while, I’d be willing to bet you’ve lost at least one or two squadron mates to suicide. If you’re new and you haven’t, steel yourself because you very likely will. Personally, I’ve seen my fair share, including a couple of friends for whom I never would’ve thought that would be an option. I’m all for ANYONE who reaches out & promotes veterans’ mental health. 

Amen,

I was pleasantly surprised to get the Email form the VA yesterday, I am glad someone is at least trying. 

In all honesty I have struggled to find meaning with the sights and ensuing chaos caused by our hasty departure, it is painful to watch.  I would imagine there are others who need to process and I am glad they are not alone.

[FLEA]

I've been thinking a lot about my friends on Independence 08 the last few days. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by FLEA

[gearhog]

[Standby]

A lot of people placing blame on senior military leaders who’ve commanded in the last two decades. There are always things to bitch about in war, but my perspective was always that our civilian leadership was to blame. Tried to straddle the middle ground which muddied the waters and then emplaced overly restrictive ROEs further cheapening efforts. 

[Springer]

21 minutes ago, Standby said:

A lot of people placing blame on senior military leaders who’ve commanded in the last two decades. There are always things to bitch about in war, but my perspective was always that our civilian leadership was to blame. Tried to straddle the middle ground which muddied the waters and then emplaced overly restrictive ROEs further cheapening efforts. 

Any one of those unhappy senior military leaders could have pulled a "Ron Foggleman"

 and exited.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Springer

[Standby]

10 minutes ago, Springer said:

Any one of those unhappy senior military leaders could have pulled a "Ron Foggleman"

 and exited.

I don’t fault the military personalities who were given the bullshit task from on high. Most, in my opinion, were superb leaders but forced to feed poop sandwiches with PB&J labels on them. The military doesn’t decide when we go to war, but we definitely ought to have the right to decide how and where we do it. Senior military officials were given the keys to a Ferrari and told that it couldn’t be started and must be pushed everywhere. Final point: mission creep and the lack of a military objective. Not enough of one, and plenty of the other. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Standby

[Prozac]

4 minutes ago, Standby said:

A lot of people placing blame on senior military leaders who’ve commanded in the last two decades. There are always things to bitch about in war, but my perspective was always that our civilian leadership was to blame. Tried to straddle the middle ground which muddied the waters and then emplaced overly restrictive ROEs further cheapening efforts. 

I mostly agree, but I do think the pentagon needs to come to terms that it shares some of the blame here. We’ve rotated so much leadership through the AOR over the years it’s no wonder that continuity of purpose has been virtually non existent. I can remember the expeditionary WG/CC on my first deployment giving a hung-ho pep talk to us about how we were the tip of the spear & truly making a difference. Over the years, I deployed to the same location, listened to the same speech given by new leadership, stayed in the same Qs, ate the same food, flew the same jets in the same airspace against the same enemy. A decade later, several WG/CCs had cycled through, we called the enemy by a different name even though we were fighting the same people, and that pep talk had barely changed. It was clear that everybody just wanted to get through their deployment and back to life. Progress didn’t matter. We were running in place. Biding our time. Nothing was ever going to change appreciably. Senior military leadership failed to internalize the lesson of Vietnam. In their own careerist pursuits, they yielded to clueless civilian leadership that insisted on committing troops without a clearly defined end goal/exit strategy. I hope our military can take a hard internal look after this debacle. Twice now we have suffered the pain and humiliation of walking away from hugely costly conflicts with little to nothing to show for it except broken human beings. The small number of patriots who volunteer to serve this country should have the assurance that their toil and sacrifice will not be wasted. The responsibility for that assurance lies with senior pentagon leaders & they failed spectacularly this time around. 

[Lockjaw]

As I read in a well written piece by a former MARSOC operator, "We weren't in Afghanistan for 20 years. We were in Afghanistan 20 times for 1 year."

[Prozac]

11 minutes ago, Lockjaw said:

As I read in a well written piece by a former MARSOC operator, "We weren't in Afghanistan for 20 years. We were in Afghanistan 20 times for 1 year."

That’s an excellent way to put it. Have a link to said piece? 

[Lockjaw]

Here ya go

What Just Happened?

[Smokin]

Taliban seem to be making a very smart political move.  By hold the ring around the airport, they allow many of what would be the most problematic Afghans to potentially leave, and if the US doesn't evacuate them, they're consolidated for later...

Meanwhile, the Taliban gains considerable good will on the world stage and suddenly seems like reasonable rulers.  And, they allow us to keep looking like idiots.  It's a win, win, win for them with virtually no risk.  If they attack, everything changes.  Smart move would be to hold the ring and allow us to get out everyone we are able/want to evacuate.

[Wendell]

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/afghanistan-taliban-us-news-08-17-21/h_dc45f7ca1e7885d72a43641a61f145eb
 

55 min ago

Biden has not spoken to US allies since Kabul fell, national security adviser says

WTF is waiting for?

Edited August 17, 2021 by Wendell

[ClearedHot]

[arg]

There’s video of that going around the net.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app