Finally done in Afghanistan?

[filthy_liar]

5 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

A unique combination of extreme comfortability and safety brought on by untold global wealth, combined with a brewing discontent due to lack of shared purpose.

I agree.  Americans are bored.  If you put down the chainsaw, gardening tools, close the door to the chicken door and sit down and think about how absurd the shit that woke people are concerned with is, it makes sense.  They are extremely comfortable, safe, and therefore bored.  Again, I don't think ill of urbanites.  But I can see the boredom.  Unfortunately I can also see the fragility of the safety net.

[filthy_liar]

For some reason I can't edit.   "close the door to the chicken coop" reads less retardedly.

[FourFans]

6 hours ago, Biff_T said:

I can barely remember what it was like before 9/11 (young and drunk lol) but we didn't have dudes walking around with 69 air medals as the norm.   

Well, in AMC dudes are still deploying, only it's Ramstein and DJ now (and yes, sadly...the 'deid still...sigh).  Africa, PACOM and exercises keep the mobility bubbas just as busy as they were, just in different locations.  I know some of our young IP/WO community still, and as a single ray off sunshine compared to ClearedHot's report card on AFSOC, the up and coming mobility community is ready for the future fights (both dirty and conventional), at least at the squadron/group level.  Innovation and initiative are high in those kids.

[Biff_T]

38 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:

Well, in AMC dudes are still deploying, only it's Ramstein and DJ now (and yes, sadly...the 'deid still...sigh).  Africa, PACOM and exercises keep the mobility bubbas just as busy as they were, just in different locations.  I know some of our young IP/WO community still, and as a single ray off sunshine compared to ClearedHot's report card on AFSOC, the up and coming mobility community is ready for the future fights (both dirty and conventional), at least at the squadron/group level.  Innovation and initiative are high in those kids.

That's awesome to hear!

[dream big]

5 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Well, in AMC dudes are still deploying, only it's Ramstein and DJ now (and yes, sadly...the 'deid still...sigh).  Africa, PACOM and exercises keep the mobility bubbas just as busy as they were, just in different locations.  I know some of our young IP/WO community still, and as a single ray off sunshine compared to ClearedHot's report card on AFSOC, the up and coming mobility community is ready for the future fights (both dirty and conventional), at least at the squadron/group level.  Innovation and initiative are high in those kids.

Absolutely, AMC’s culture has really changed recently, largely thanks to Mini. Young cats are in the vault more than ever and excited about planning and executing challenging profiles and exercises. Thank god because INDOPACOM presents a logistical challenge like no other, EUCOM would be no cake walk either. There are still your AMC careerists and your toxic old hats who scoff at anything more challenging than SKE VIS PRO..but I’m really impressed and optimistic with the way the community is headed. 

[nsplayr]

On 12/28/2022 at 8:16 AM, ClearedHot said:

Define winning, which has always been the problem.  Did we stop attacks on the homeland while murking bad guys "over there?"  I think there was a certain value in that proposition but obviously it can't go on forever.  As far as monitor and assess, I presume you are?  The intel feeds and assessments are not pretty, Al-Qaeda, ISIS-K, Taliban and other Jihadist groups are most certainly rebuilding and spreading influence while our exalted leaders have shifted to countering domestic violence here at home.  Sadly, there will be another big event, followed by investigations, finger pointing and over-reaction.

Yea, obv defining "winning" is and has always been the issue. I'd argue we somewhat "won" in Iraq although at TREMENDOUS, unfathomable cost. Today Iraq is better and more US-friendly than under Saddam, but phew it was not an easy road. Afghanistan I'd say is equally bad today as pre-9/11, maybe a bit less so because the problem has not has as long to fester, again at incredible cost. Wish we had done better there strategically...I certainly tried to do my part tactically. But as you said, our spending blood and treasure can't go on forever, even as the global superpower.

We are monitoring & assessing and striking when juicy opportunities arise, and I'd argue that's the right strategy for most of the familiar shitholes we've been fighting in for the last 20 years. RPA in particular will continue keeping the lid on as best as is possible with imperfect intel and understanding that the enemy always gets a vote as well. As you well know, VEO isn't going away but it's no longer the focus, nor should it be IMHO.

[nsplayr]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/26/us/politics/isis-leader-us-somalia-raid.html
 

All VEO dickbags be on notice: we will still come and find you and ruin your day no matter how long you try to hide 🇺🇸

[arg]

He mentioned a familiar name at about 10:40

 

[ClearedHot]

Biden administration releases report about decisions around U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan

"A summary of the report largely blamed former President Donald Trump's administration for the breakdown that occurred after U.S. troops withdrew."

Of course it did because the Clown Penis sitting in the oval office will take responsibility for NOTHING.  The blood of 13 dead Americans is on his hands and he blames the previous guy.

[FLEA]

22 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Biden administration releases report about decisions around U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan

"A summary of the report largely blamed former President Donald Trump's administration for the breakdown that occurred after U.S. troops withdrew."

Of course it did because the Clown Penis sitting in the oval office will take responsibility for NOTHING.  The blood of 13 dead Americans is on his hands and he blames the previous guy.

Interesting. I didn't know former President Trump was the one that decided to leave 1000 American citizens, 10,000 lawful permanent residents, and nearly 100,000 SIV qualified immigrants in a war zone. 

[uhhello]

Maybe this report will be the catalyst needed to enable the American public to elect someone into a position that will be able to make decisions related to military and diplomatic operations.  

[uhhello]

And to be fair, our dear leader only had 7 months to analyze the current plan and make changes/delays as needed.  

Biden and his team were "well aware of the challenges posed by withdrawing from a warzone" after 20 years, the White House said, and while the Trump administration left a target date for leaving Afghanistan, it provided "no plan for executing it."

Great, so what happened to all the fired generals and staffers who failed to plan for an event that the president at the time said was going to happen?  

Edited April 6, 2023 by uhhello

[Biff_T]

If it wasn't Trumps fault then in was definitely G-Ws!  /s

[SocialD]

38 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

If it wasn't Trumps fault then in was definitely G-Ws!  /s

 

I blame Obama...we should have pulled out of Afghanistan during his first term.  

[Day Man]

why would they when the slides were green and we were "making progress?"

[ClearedHot]

All This Talk of Chaos, I Just Didn't See It': White House Spokesman Says Administration 'Proud' of Afghanistan Withdrawal. John Kirby, coordinator for strategic communications at the National Security Council, said Thursday that the Biden administration is “proud” of its botched withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021

[bfargin]

I’m not surprised ole braindead B and his staff are proud of that cluster

[Clark Griswold]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

All This Talk of Chaos, I Just Didn't See It': White House Spokesman Says Administration 'Proud' of Afghanistan Withdrawal. John Kirby, coordinator for strategic communications at the National Security Council, said Thursday that the Biden administration is “proud” of its botched withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021

Kirby was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force...

[Danger41]

I’m not going to pitch in on the political left vs right but I don’t know how you could watch that and not think chaos was present.

[VigilanteNav]

A wise CC of mine always said there are always three sides to every story.  In that perspective, here are my thoughts: 

After reading the report to congress: US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf (whitehouse.gov)

For the unclassified version, IMHO, it is a thoughtful look and after action report on what went right and what went wrong and what they have applied to similar scenarios subsequent to the withdrawal (Ethiopia and Ukraine).  I think as long as you're not trying to win some political argument out of it by cherry picking a few things to write a short article with a catchy headline then there are some valid takeaways that hopefully congress will dive into during the AFGHANISTAN WAR COMMISSION   So, just reading the headlines, from any of the media outlets is not going to do it justice.      

 

Watched and read what Kirby actually said about being proud:  "Just because the mission changed over time, under previous administration and leadership and scenarios, doesn't mean that anybody who served in Afghanistan doesn't have something to be proud of doesn't have, doesn't have, --sorry -- doesn't have service to this country that they can take with them the rest of their lives and feel honorable about it," he said.  (he breaks up a bit at the "doesn't have --sorry" part which I do believe was an honest reaction to him thinking about some of his service or peers who served and possibly were lost in the war.)  

White House official is asked why Biden admin taking no responsibility for Afghanistan debacle | Fox News Video

“The president is very proud about the manner in which the men and women of the military, the foreign service, the intelligence community and on and on and on conducted this withdrawal,” he said. “I’ve been around operations my entire life and there’s not a single one that ever goes perfectly according to plan.” 

Doocy continued to push back saying, “There were children being killed. There were people hanging off of Air Force jets that were leaving and you’re saying that you guys are proud of the way this mission was conducted? Of that?”

Kirby said: “Proud of the fact that we got more than 124,000 people safely out of Afghanistan? You bet. Proud of the fact that American troops were able to seize control of a defunct airport and get it operational in 48 hours? You bet. Proud of the fact that we now have about 100,000 afghans our former allies and partners living in this country and working toward citizenship? You bet.”

“But does that mean everything went perfect in that evacuation? Of course not,” he said.

He later added, “Nobody is saying that everything is perfect but there was a lot that went right and a lot of Afghans are now living better lives in this country and other countries around the world because of the sacrifices and the work of so many American government officials. So yeah, there’s a lot to be proud of, Peter.”

I certainly hope that any of us who served in Afghanistan, supported it from afar, or supported any of the execution of the withdrawal are proud of what we did and agree that we would hope an administration would be proud of us.  If we are directed to do a military operation and it fails or goes poorly at no fault of our own (the enemy has a say as Kirby acknowledged), I certainly want to be supported afterwards.  

 

As for the media outlets coverage (which surely most Americans aren't looking at considering the other shiny objects floating around these days): I thought this one was about as close to the "third side of the story" as they can get... 

Biden admin acknowledges mistakes in Afghanistan exit but defends decision to leave (msn.com)

 

 

[BashiChuni]

The fact no one in the DOD pushed back against bagram being closed and using Kabul to withdraw is the biggest WTF of the entire event. 
 

and if you’re not being heard resign. But that takes moral courage…something clearly lacking in senior DOD “leadership”

[brabus]

7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

The fact no one in the DOD pushed back against bagram being closed and using Kabul to withdraw is the biggest WTF of the entire event

I have been told (can’t personally corroborate) that all the things were said in the room, multiple times, that all of us would have said. They were summarily ignored and the dumbest COAs were chosen. Civilian control of the military makes sense overall, but this was an example of that system completely backfiring, similar to Vietnam. 

[BashiChuni]

3 minutes ago, brabus said:

I have been told (can’t personally corroborate) that all the things were said in the room, multiple times, that all of us would have said. They were summarily ignored and the dumbest COAs were chosen. Civilian control of the military makes sense overall, but this was an example of that system completely backfiring, similar to Vietnam. 

then you resign in protest.

[Lord Ratner]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

then you resign in protest.

You have to want to do the right thing more than you want to progress your career.

 

That's tough for anyone, me included, but it seems literally impossible for anyone over the rank of O-5. I was convinced they taught colonels a standardized response at whatever charm school they had to attend:

I'll be able to do more to fix the problem on the inside. If I just quit I'll be replaced tomorrow.

[ClearedHot]

50 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

That's tough for anyone, me included, but it seems literally impossible for anyone over the rank of O-5. I was convinced they taught colonels a standardized response at whatever charm school they had to attend:

You would be surprised at what they teach at "Colonel Charm School."  They start by sending you a document attached to a congratulations note.  Paraphrasing the document but mostly verbatim:

1.  Don't ask to be stationed near your parents because they are ill, all Colonels have older parents and we can not accommodate.

2.  Don't ask for an extension in one location so your kid can finish high school, all Colonels have kids in high school.

3.  Expect to move a lot, the average Colonel moved every 18 months. The needs of the service were never more true than now that you are a Colonel.

4.  Again, don't ask for the above, if you don't like these rules, thanks for your service, bye Felicia.

I went through both the Group Commander Course and the Wing Commander Course prior to taking command and both were centered on "here are the things that gets Colonels in trouble:

1.  The car - I shit you not...long discussions about the rules for using your White Top.  The car went away after my command so I guess it was even more sensitive.

2.  Money - Be careful and be sure about how you and those in your command spend govt funds...trust but verify.

3.  Your dick - I forget the percentage but as I recall almost half of all instances of being removed from command were caused by misplacing your dick.  There was a small section about being a dick...for a brief time the AF was actually going to stop caustic leaders but we all know that was just lip service.