COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[brickhistory]

Hasn't happened in modern USAF times that I know of, but going to HEB this morning reminded me of the decon drills of old.

Stand in line, wait for the decon personnel to bring you forward, I looked for the shuffle box but didn't see one, got sprayed down in the vestibule area, proceed to the decon showers, then off to somewhat empty shelves.

 

 

[war007afa]

11 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

You guys honesty think wearing gloves is going to do a damn thing? GMAFB

I subscribe to gloves, but in the opposite method advertised.

The virus spreads by touching something bad and then an orifice of your body.  So I do all my shopping and remain cognizant of hand placement (it's like I fly airplanes, for Christ's sake!).  Then, when I'm done, I put gloves on after I'm clear of the high risk of contamination to ensure I don't risk any of the nastiness on my hands accidentally touching my face (trap the risk in the damn gloves).  Then you can take the gloves off when you're able to finally be out of the environment and clean off.

Of course, none of this means anything if you can't get any damn gloves (like in DC).  But food for thought.

[stuckindayton]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Because I've seen how baggers at the commissary and workers at Chick-fil-A wear them.  Put on a pair at the beginning of your shift, bag everyone stuff, cough into your hands, rub your eyes, scratch the top of your head, bag some more groceries...

It might work if they were changing gloves regularly or using SOME kind of restraint with where they put their hands.  As it is, all it does is keep them from washing their hands more often.

Fair enough.  My point is that when used properly gloves can be a benefit.  It's like a seat belt.  Just because you are wearing it doesn't make you immune to injury.  You still have to use common sense.

[AirGuardianC141747]

13 hours ago, Stoker said:

Because people wearing gloves don't wash their hands or use hand sanitizer. It's a false sense of security.

People is kind of generic don’t you think. Maybe the people you associate with or live with or watch don’t do it hence “people”. We’ll just call them the ignorant to further specify. Not great, but better. If anyone is like this, totally agree, don’t wear gloves, don’t do anything, why bother, just stay away from me. Your right, definitely much more authoritarian in the Asian sector and I do not wish to be under such gubment power. But, it’s also a matter of discipline, washing hands, staying apart, Hong Kong folks shopping heavily ”trying” to keep distance (just not bumping into me which was normal) almost all with masks, some have gloves, most do not I grant you - but they’ve been out for weeks now with no doors welded keeping them in. It was very lite traffic doing essentials early on during the epidemic and some even had trackable wrist bands, plastic style/paper not handcuffs. Deliveries between all buildings every night for morning delivery. Nearly 7.5 million would have starved as they are much more thin than us, all kidding aside there was quite a bit of common sense support. Not advocating, just informing, just saying. I’ll see if I can dig up some of my HKG mall photos as of recent. Easy peasy for them and when over, they’ll resume normal ops. Culture, discipline, government definitely deeper. Just watching it in real time and not via the internet/news. Good stuff and bad stuff going on as usual, we are doing better. Economy, that’s to be seen and I do believe their are many other ways to have dealt with this specifically regarding our countries culture/economy 20/20 hindsight of course. Just be safe out there!

[AirGuardianC141747]

On a separate note. I am weird perhaps, but it’s kind of nice not having to shake hands without a glare. I understand our human requirements for contact/social greetings, but as many airport bathrooms I have been in (many countries), it’s disturbing how many do not wash hands so definitely a point there. Jeeesh. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[Danger41]

The big news today was that Covid deaths have surpassed 100,000 worldwide. Since I’m socially isolated and bored, I looked some info up:

1. 7,671 a day die from obesity worldwide (2.8 mil annual)

2. Estimates up to 59k this year in the US for influenza.

3. 1,772 die a day from heart disease in the US (647,000 annual).

4. 3,699 die a day worldwide from driving (1.35 mil annual)

5. Over 2 million die yearly worldwide from work related accidents and Illnesses.

6. From 2008-2015, 1,610 people died from animal attacks. Mostly from farm animals and bees/wasps. 86 annually from venomous animals.
 

7. 67,300 died from drug overdose in the US in 2018.

8. 88,000 died from alcohol abuse in the US annually.

9. 1,300 a day die from tobacco (personal or second hand). 
 

Food for thought.

 

[Mighty]

13 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

The big news today was that Covid deaths have surpassed 100,000 worldwide. Since I’m socially isolated and bored, I looked some info up:

1. 7,671 a day die from obesity worldwide (2.8 mil annual)

2. Estimates up to 59k this year in the US for influenza.

3. 1,772 die a day from heart disease in the US (647,000 annual).

4. 3,699 die a day worldwide from driving (1.35 mil annual)

5. Over 2 million die yearly worldwide from work related accidents and Illnesses.

6. From 2008-2015, 1,610 people died from animal attacks. Mostly from farm animals and bees/wasps. 86 annually from venomous animals.
 

7. 67,300 died from drug overdose in the US in 2018.

8. 88,000 died from alcohol abuse in the US annually.

9. 1,300 a day die from tobacco (personal or second hand). 
 

Food for thought.

 

10. 1 died from being chopped up and fed to his wife’s tigers

 

[bronxbomber252]

We are not allowed to go anywhere off base other than our "primary residence" and everyone in the commissary/BX is required to wear a mask.  Is this not the norm for other bases?

D-M:

No travel for non essential activities. Essential activities include:

-buying necessities such as groceries (can go to commissary or normal grocery store), household supplies, etc...

-medical appointments

-government appointments such as court and such

-outdoor exercise to include running, hiking, biking, etc... (cannot drive more than 1hr to go do these things)

-etc

Relaxed grooming standards for hair length and bulk (must still shave, police side burns, etc...(

Masks required at commissary

Work from home to max extent possible. Still go in to mission plan and fly (reduced flying schedule), or to do things that can only be done at the squadron. Must wear mask if unable to maintain 6ft separation from co workers.

I’m probably missing a little but this gives the jist.

[BashiChuni]

Yahoo finance news article today estimating this is going to push FIVE HUNDRED MILLION people worldwide into poverty. Hope it’s worth it

 

tragedy that people are dying. It is. Horrible that some young people die. 
 

but young people die of the flu each year too. You just don’t hear about it. Is this worse? Probably. But at what cost?

 

people can shit on trump for being a dope but he’s right the cure can’t be worse than the disease 

Edited April 11, 2020 by BashiChuni

[AirGuardianC141747]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwiY1NTpwN_oAhUXbc0KHV7mCv8QFjAAegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.indexmundi.com%2Fclocks%2Findicator%2Fdeaths%2Funited-states&usg=AOvVaw3wfxcxE4l2A0nR-PC-SnAr

Good “food for thought” specifically on how we perish posted earlier (Very Good Work which takes effort). Some things we have no control over as were mentioned, a lot of the others have been due to long life personal choices. Here is another snapshot of a time lapse within these United States as we pass away; just another perspective from the 60,000 ft level. 
 

If link doesn’t work, Google “United States Death Clock.” Supposedly we lose someone every 11.14 seconds or thereabouts. Just like “Danger41” said - “Food for thought”

Edited April 11, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[gearhog]

The virus has hit San Antonio especially hard. 10,000 emaciated and poverty-stricken Texans with nowhere to turn beg for free food while the providers struggle and are unable to feed them without help from the National Guard. Looks like a scene from the Great Depression, doesn't it?

https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Thousands-hit-hard-by-coronavirus-pandemic-s-15189948.php

[brabus]

Danger’s list of comparisons + the pics in the above link are one of several things demonstrating how we are fucking this away. Measured response, not freak-the-fuck-out-and-shut-down-the-world response. 

[HU&W]

Last Sunday, the US Surgeon General said that this week would be our Pearl Harbor moment, our 9/11 moment.  Our children and our children’s children would remember the tragedy of this week, with all the death, etc...

Outside of nyc, hospitals are closing because they don’t have enough patients, due to the measures taken to preserve capacity for coronavirus.  Health care workers, my niece included, are out of work because they are only allowed to do ‘essential’ health care and coronavirus.  And there just not enough to keep them employed.  

I do agree with the surgeon general that there are historic parallels. But they’re not Pearl Harbor or 9/11. 

[FDNYOldGuy]

1 hour ago, HU&W said:

I do agree with the surgeon general that there are historic parallels. But they’re not Pearl Harbor or 9/11. 

But, much like Pearl Harbor or 9\11, this is an event that is disproportionately affecting those particular locations more than others, which can make it hard for those on the outside to grasp the gravity of the situation. 

For my Manhattan firehouse, nearly 20 of the 65 people assigned have or are recovering from COVID, with nearly 20% of the entire FDNY out on medical leave with it. Bros are having to quarantine in hotels away for days/weeks from their families to avoid bringing exposures home. Our work chart is changed to one that hasn’t been used since the days after 9/11. They’re told by the FDNY to report to work EVEN IF THEY TESTED POSITIVE as long as they’re not showing symptoms because manpower is so dire. CPR calls and home deaths, usually around 20/day throughout the whole city, are well north of 200/day. It appears those deaths are not being counted as COVID, at least initially, because they haven’t tested the deceased to tie it to that.

I guess I’m saying that, just because it seems like this is a ridiculous inconvenience that’s overblown in a lot of other areas of the country, it certainly is capable of being way worse and having much further-reaching ramifications if left unchecked. 

[drewpey]

14 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Yahoo finance news article today estimating this is going to push FIVE HUNDRED MILLION people worldwide into poverty. Hope it’s worth it

 

tragedy that people are dying. It is. Horrible that some young people die. 
 

but young people die of the flu each year too. You just don’t hear about it. Is this worse? Probably. But at what cost?

 

people can shit on trump for being a dope but he’s right the cure can’t be worse than the disease 

The report that produced that 500M number wasn't doing so to advocate for opening up the economies.  It's largely focused on developing countries, which are generally unaffected by our virus responses.  It also goes on to advocate universal healthcare and social safety nets that would undoubtedly ease much of the suffering we see today.

link

[gearhog]

17 minutes ago, drewpey said:

The report that produced that 500M number wasn't doing so to advocate for opening up the economies.  It's largely focused on developing countries, which are generally unaffected by our virus responses.  It also goes on to advocate universal healthcare and social safety nets that would undoubtedly ease much of the suffering we see today.

link

What a novel idea: From each country according to its ability, to each country according to its needs. Imagine the entire world united under one governing body to provide dignity and "universal social protections" for every person. Sounds good to me.

[HU&W]

T birds are doing a valley air show today in Vegas. Something about their plan seems...familiar. 

[Pooter]

9 hours ago, FDNYOldGuy said:

I guess I’m saying that, just because it seems like this is a ridiculous inconvenience that’s overblown in a lot of other areas of the country, it certainly is capable of being way worse and having much further-reaching ramifications if left unchecked. 

Agreed.  If the mitigation measures seem like ridiculous overkill, that's because they're working.  And we need to keep doing them.  It's pretty annoying and very scientifically illiterate that people are talking about lifting restrictions the moment new york has a slight leveling off in infection rate.  

[FDNYOldGuy]

16 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Agreed.  If the mitigation measures seem like ridiculous overkill, that's because they're working.  And we need to keep doing them.  It's pretty annoying and very scientifically illiterate that people are talking about lifting restrictions the moment new york has a slight leveling off in infection rate.  

It’s like hurricanes in the SE USA (or a million other things). When one is threatening, people went nuts and prepped for it by buying supplies. It would come through, be a dud, and people would feel like it was a waste of time. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. A few hurricanes later, they just stop prepping...until one comes that’s legit. Then it’s a holy , end of the world rush level of scramble to prep for the beast bearing down. It would hit and people would get wiped out and say, “how did this happen?!?”

People didn’t think this was serious. Ebola and SARS weren’t, so everyone let it go. But, this one turned out legit and people weren’t prepped. 

[herkbier]

And that’s just the thing.. resources are finite. We can’t shut down the economy for  every virus or disease that emerges in the world. We need to find ways to continue to live and operate as safely as possible... and that probably involves isolating the most vulnerable and getting the least vulnerable back to work ASAP. 

[drewpey]

22 minutes ago, herkbier said:

And that’s just the thing.. resources are finite. We can’t shut down the economy for  every virus or disease that emerges in the world. We need to find ways to continue to live and operate as safely as possible... and that probably involves isolating the most vulnerable and getting the least vulnerable back to work ASAP. 

Healthcare resources are finite as well.  The reason the death toll is relatively low is because most hospitals are not overwhelmed like what you see in the developing world...which is the point of flattening the curve.  Our healthcare system sucks as it is...you can't just take a punch from something like this and expect things to be fine just because "muh economy".

[herkbier]

Yep they are finite, but our system is staffed and equipped for the likely amount of use that occurs each year. If we increase from that just in case, we’ll have a lot of expensive waste that will increase costs. Healthcare is already expensive.

It’s not just “muh economy”. It’s easy for us with a steady paycheck to say that. Go checkout how many people are at the Food-banks this week; I read that something like 15K families in San Antonio alone. 15,000 families in one city need food assistance.  People die from mal-nourishment too, or become weak and  vulnerable to a disease they otherwise could have fought. 
 

Isolate the vulnerable and get the less vulnerable doing something productive. Also, let’s take a look at incentives to get people out of the vulnerable camp. Can’t do much about age and some pre-existing conditions.. but a population of people with poor health due to lack of preventative care and poor choices is pretty dumb. It’s also America though, so freedom. 

[HU&W]

2 hours ago, drewpey said:

Healthcare resources are finite as well.  The reason the death toll is relatively low is because most hospitals are not overwhelmed like what you see in the developing world...which is the point of flattening the curve.  Our healthcare system sucks as it is...you can't just take a punch from something like this and expect things to be fine just because "muh economy".

They’re so underwhelmed that some are shutting down and laying off employees for lack of business. No ‘nonessential’ medical services combined with no coronavirus patients means the doctors are out of business too. 

[FDNYOldGuy]

4 hours ago, herkbier said:

Isolate the vulnerable and get the less vulnerable doing something productive. Also, let’s take a look at incentives to get people out of the vulnerable camp. Can’t do much about age and some pre-existing conditions.. but a population of people with poor health due to lack of preventative care and poor choices is pretty dumb. It’s also America though, so freedom. 

Agreed

[Stoker]

13 hours ago, herkbier said:

 I read that something like 15K families in San Antonio alone. 15,000 families in one city need food assistance. 

15,000 families in a city of 1.5 million want food assistance, not necessarily need. It's like when Florida has the National Guard passing out MREs and bags of ice during a hurricane; people will line up for hours for free stuff even though the Publix right behind the distribution site is open and stocked.