COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Homestar]

Public health should be able to give you the most current guidance for the area you are traveling to. 

[BashiChuni]

8 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I wouldn’t recommend that COA. I know a guy that did that and got absolutely crushed and several guys that got booted out of WIC for similar action in the last class.

I’m sorry I thought this was America!!!

*Cue South Park clip*

[Splash95]

14 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I wouldn’t recommend that COA. I know a guy that did that and got absolutely crushed and several guys that got booted out of WIC for similar action in the last class.

One more piece of confirmation that people have officially lost their minds.

[ThreeHoler]

One more piece of confirmation that people have officially lost their minds.

Hm, violating a direct order from the SECDEF doesn’t have consequences?

What ing military are you in?

[Chuck17]

On 6/25/2020 at 8:36 AM, Danger41 said:

…….. and several guys that got booted out of WIC for similar action in the last class.

For ignoring guidance?  Or for lying about ignoring guidance...? (Heard it briefed differently, that's all...)

Chuck

Edited June 26, 2020 by Chuck17

[Lawman]

I think the hardest problem operating in this whole thing from a Military Orders and Mission Command perspective is the people with Birds/Stars on shoulders/Sleeves that are supposed to be making the play calls for us to take guidance from have all backed away from any decisions that have to be made.

The reason they are doing that is the last great example of somebody with a Bird/Star sacking up and saying “this is my call as a commander and I’m making it,” got publicly fired out of a cannon and his Carrier taken away.


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[dream big]

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

I think the hardest problem operating in this whole thing from a Military Orders and Mission Command perspective is the people with Birds/Stars on shoulders/Sleeves that are supposed to be making the play calls for us to take guidance from have all backed away from any decisions that have to be made.

The reason they are doing that is the last great example of somebody with a Bird/Star sacking up and saying “this is my call as a commander and I’m making it,” got publicly fired out of a cannon and his Carrier taken away.


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Leadership 101, make a damn decision, even if it’s not the best one.  Unfortunately many CCs see their command as a checked box enroute to general starship so they can’t taint that by actually having to be a leader. 

[odb123]

On 6/24/2020 at 11:06 PM, the g-man said:

What’s this guidance you speak of? Where I am wing/cc laid out a couple days ago, 2.5 hrs driving radius for purposes of outdoor rec only.


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Here’s all the AF guidance.  But has anyone had a base or Wg/CC who has actually allowed leave outside of the local area IAW the guidance?  Ours hasn’t even mentioned it, even though the guidance has been out for a month.  Many are still referencing the now rescinded 30 Jun stop movement.

https://mypers.af.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/46605

https://mypers.af.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/47797

https://mypers.af.mil/app/answers/detail/a_id/47788

 

 

[FLEA]

My friends in Europe are telling me that interpretation is a nightmare right now. Apparently if you go on leave your departing area and your leave area have to be green. But you can travel 8 hours on a 4 day pass. Well no guidance on what rules apply to a pass so they've been using the loop hole to go-to other countries. 

What gets crazy though is some EU countries don't recognize your SOFA status as EU residency, so they've tried to deport a few dependents back to the US instead of letting them return to Germany, the NL or whatever. It's an utter shit show.

[Splash95]

16 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

Hm, violating a direct order from the SECDEF doesn’t have consequences?

What ing military are you in?

 

The guard. Granted, I posted without knowing exactly what those dudes did and I'm not up to speed on all the latest AD guidelines. Booted from WIC for leaving the local area on a weekend just seemed like an extreme consequence.

[stuckindayton]

Question for the group.  When arriving at a new duty station, e.g. UPT, are you required to either quarantine for 14 days or be screened for CV?  Is your departing location considered in this decision?  Thanks for any info.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, stuckindayton said:

Question for the group.  When arriving at a new duty station, e.g. UPT, are you required to either quarantine for 14 days or be screened for CV?  Is your departing location considered in this decision?  Thanks for any info.

Call public health the minute you get into town. Your gaining STUS should communicate that info to you. 

[stuckindayton]

OK, thank you.

[Danger41]

14 hours ago, Chuck17 said:

For ignoring guidance?  Or for lying about ignoring guidance...? (Heard it briefed differently, that's all...)

Chuck

Honestly, not sure of the exact details. I just know they left the local area against guidance. Unknown if there was any lying ASW that action.

[M2]

[PitchTrimmer]

Thread bump. Now that its been around for a few months and we know a lot more about it, I'm curious to hear what people think about the state of the pandemic and the response to it. In particular, I'd like to hear from people who think the opposite that I do. I've done a fair bit of reading, and it seems to me that the response in most places seems out of proportion to the actual threat that the virus provides. Currently, the CDC best estimate for the infection fatality rate  (not to be confused with case fatality rate, which is not corrected for asymptomatic people) breaks down like this: 0-19 years: 0.003%; 20-49 years: 0.02%; 50-69 years: 0.5%; 70+ years: 5.4%. The risk for most seems quite low, and of course since asymptomatic people are least likely to go to the doctor these numbers are likely higher than actual. Given this data, is forcing business closures and lockdowns that we see in many places really the best course of action? Lockdowns and business closures are certainly having a bad effect on everyone, but the virus affects a known demographic. Also, when does it end? Getting zero cases is a mathematical impossibility given the accuracy of commonly used tests, and the economy is unlikely to be able to await a vaccine. So why does the herd immunity idea seem to be looked at so poorly? It seems to me having the groups with the >99% survival rate get herd immunity to protect the rest is the only way out, and locking down every time cases spike just seems to be delaying the inevitable. Especially since the graphs for new cases and the graphs for new deaths do not appear to be following each other anymore, indicating the healthier people are getting it and living through it and we are better at treating it. What other people's thoughts on the matter?

[brabus]

Most responses are way out of line, illogical, and many probably illegal. This is 90% emotional/political and 10% about actual public health. Social distancing, mask when you meet the definition of close contact, and improved hygiene (or really what you should have always been doing) is acceptable at this current point. Everything else, especially with the data on hand, is utter bullshit. That’s my somewhat succinct viewpoint. 

[herkbier]

The most important thing is that we all feel safe. Speaking for me and my family, we will definitely feel safer if we go back to mass lockdown if that’s what my overlords decide is necessary for their personal gain. 

[Homestar]

Certainly people have died this year who otherwise would not have died because of COVID. I think we can finally put to rest that this is just like the flu since infection rates are so high. Just because the death rate is so low does not mean it’s not having a tremendous effect on the country, especially on our health care system. I agree that much of the lockdown was overkill, but American resistance to pandemic countermeasures is the reason we have 5% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s COVID cases. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Homestar

[Danger41]

On this topic, what’s everyone’s opinion on the vaccine? I’d 100% not take this vaccine and just get exposed if that were an option. I have no issues with vaccines, but rushing something out with those earlier referenced fatality numbers seems like a cut off the nose to spite the face thing. 

[Breckey]

On this topic, what’s everyone’s opinion on the vaccine? I’d 100% not take this vaccine and just get exposed if that were an option. I have no issues with vaccines, but rushing something out with those earlier referenced fatality numbers seems like a cut off the nose to spite the face thing. 

This is where it's tough because just because you're fine doesn't mean that you won't infect somebody who isn't. Based on who is transmitting the virus, the 20-40 age group would have the biggest effect on reducing the numbers. But I think the older and health vulnerable populace should be the first ones after health care workers to get it. Who knows though, I'm not in public health.

[N730]

On this topic, what’s everyone’s opinion on the vaccine? I’d 100% not take this vaccine and just get exposed if that were an option. I have no issues with vaccines, but rushing something out with those earlier referenced fatality numbers seems like a cut off the nose to spite the face thing. 

If getting exposed made you permanently immune like chicken pox, I might agree. But since it doesn't, I don't think I'd purposely expose myself.

I wonder if we will have an option or if this vaccine will be mandatory for everyone in the military.

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[ThreeHoler]

The long-term effects of this thing are quite nasty in many cases. I wouldn’t want to risk my flying career over something stupid like not wearing a mask and maintaining distance. I also wouldn’t want to risk it over purposely getting infected when there is very little data to support effective herd immunity from this virus.


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[brabus]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

,American resistance to pandemic countermeasures is the reason we have 5% of the world’s population but 25% of the world’s COVID cases. 

It’s not that simple. Reasons (not exhaustive) - 

We are far more globally connected than many countries, leading to far more exposure (e.g. No shit Afghanistan’s rates are lower)

- Were the 3rd largest country in the world (a 1/4 the size of China)...but China only has 86k cases...yeah OK. They alone have likely massively skewed the global data, which is a nice segue for...

- It is an invalid assumption that all countries are transparent and truthful of their cases, deaths, hospitalization rates. You think China, Russia, Iran, etc. are all open kimono on their numbers?

- We test more than any other country, so obviously our numbers will have the appearance of being drastically higher compared to all the countries that test at a much lower rate than us. What would our share be if every country had conducted tests equaling 50% of their population?

This is all not to say we’ve perfectly crushed it, but to say that specific talking point is very misleading when used to generalize America’s response vs. outcome regarding COVID. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by brabus

[Homestar]

4 minutes ago, brabus said:

It’s not that simple. Reasons (not exhaustive😞

- We are far more globally connected than many countries, leading to far more exposure (e.g. No shit Afghanistan’s rates are lower)

- Were the 3rd largest country in the world (a 1/4 the size of China)...but China only has 86k cases...yeah OK. They alone have likely massively skewed the global data, which is a nice segue for...

- It is an invalid assumption that all countries are transparent and truthful of their cases, deaths, hospitalization rates. You think China, Russia, Iran, etc. are all open kimono on their numbers?

- We test more than any other country, so obviously our numbers will have the appearance of being drastically higher compared to all the countries that test at a much lower rate than us. What would our share be if every country had conducted tests equaling 50% of their population?

This is all not to say we’ve perfectly crushed it, but to say that specific talking point is very misleading when used to generalize America’s response vs. outcome regarding COVID. 

Those are fair points. It still surprised me, however, how absolutely anti-masker some of my friends are. Like End-of-the-Republic serious about it. 
 

Yeah, I’m sure China and Russia are not fully reporting their cases, but that is not relevant to the failed leadership the USA has demonstrated on the issue in our own country.