COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[17D_guy]

12 hours ago, FLEA said:

The AF has a huge problem with dogma. We culturally engrain our own to continue turning the wheel without the merit of asking why we are turning it. I've seen this so many times in my career, sometimes to the strategic embarrassment of the United States. It's the same reason commanders still look at master's degrees and ACSC for school looks, and other bullshit. 

 

On a slightly different note, I think vaccine participation just got significantly higher. At least with 49% of the population! 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/12/05/covid-19-could-cause-erectile-dysfunction-doc-says/amp/

LINEBACKER comes to mind.

[Guardian]

[kaputt]

Don’t know about anyone else, but the COVID vaccine now shows up on myIMR as one of the required vaccines. 
 

Has a small asterisks that says “not yet available at your MTF”. 

[Swizzle]

10 hours ago, kaputt said:

Don’t know about anyone else, but the COVID vaccine now shows up on myIMR as one of the required vaccines. 
 

Has a small asterisks that says “not yet available at your MTF”. 

Same

Learned today IMR pink, new higlight, means optional. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Swizzle

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, Ligma C-5 said:

Can you refuse a vaccine based off of religious reasons? 

Once. 

[FLEA]

I don't believe they will force you to take it right away though. Remember seeing something from SECDEF a while ago that troops wouldn't be forced to take it until it had a full FDA approval. (Versus the Emergency approval its on now) That full approval is at least a year away. 

[nsplayr]

I for one cannot wait to get the vaccine so we can defeat this deadly virus. Literally inject it directly into my veins. Science FTW.

[Prosuper]

 

16 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

I for one cannot wait to get the vaccine so we can defeat this deadly virus. Literally inject it directly into my veins. Science FTW.

Being around for the start of the anthrax shots and the side effects that cost guys their careers and refusals that were followed up by judicial action. Don't even get me started with the stuff we got before the start of the Desert Storm. I would say be careful what you wish for. 

 

[slc]

54 minutes ago, Prosuper said:

 

Being around for the start of the anthrax shots and the side effects that cost guys their careers and refusals that were followed up by judicial action. Don't even get me started with the stuff we got before the start of the Desert Storm. I would say be careful what you wish for. 

 

Bingo.  Had a buddy get that shit and then contracted some nasty nerve issues.  Of course, nothing could be dialed back to the anthrax vax.  I was able to dodge the bullet for a few deployments until it caught up to me.  

I, for one, am hesitant to get an "emergency" approved vax.  We shall see

[Homestar]

I heard vaccines can give you autism. I really don’t want to catch that. 

[17D_guy]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

I heard vaccines can give you autism. I really don’t want to catch that. 

I got it, Tylenol took care of it.

[nsplayr]

I mean shout out to all my 60/70s/80s/90s babies who died from polio...oh wait!

The science seems good here and I can’t wait to take the vaccine and end this long, shitty pandemic. There can always be problems, but the alternative is currently extremely problematic so I vote we go with a very promising solution.

[Prozac]

31 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

I mean shout out to all my 60/70s/80s/90s babies who died from polio...oh wait!

The science seems good here and I can’t wait to take the vaccine and end this long, shitty pandemic. There can always be problems, but the alternative is currently extremely problematic so I vote we go with a very promising solution.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. The choices before us are wide scale vaccination or a couple years or more of continued economic devastation and hundreds of thousands more deaths. I vote for the former and will be in line at the earliest opportunity. 

[ThreeHoler]

I mean shout out to all my 60/70s/80s/90s babies who died from polio...oh wait!
The science seems good here and I can’t wait to take the vaccine and end this long, shitty pandemic. There can always be problems, but the alternative is currently extremely problematic so I vote we go with a very promising solution.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

At least this one doesn’t have a live/weakened virus...

[gearhog]

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/12/15/grand-county-covid-deaths/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

At least this one doesn’t have a live/weakened virus...

 

Indeed they do not. mRNA vaccines are very cool technology and I’m glad we’re able to field something new and highly effective against this global threat.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

Edited December 18, 2020 by nsplayr

[FLEA]

13 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I mean shout out to all my 60/70s/80s/90s babies who died from polio...oh wait!

The science seems good here and I can’t wait to take the vaccine and end this long, shitty pandemic. There can always be problems, but the alternative is currently extremely problematic so I vote we go with a very promising solution.

Oh cool. I haven't read the report on the potential long term effects of the vaccine. What did it say? 

[VMFA187]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/strip-club-ruling-covid-rules-protects-restaurants-san-diego-judge-says/

 

Thinking about taking the wife and showing my appreciation tonight!

[BashiChuni]

california is insane, glad that judge is pushing back

[HossHarris]

22 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I mean shout out to all my 60/70s/80s/90s babies who died from polio...oh wait!

The science seems good here and I can’t wait to take the vaccine and end this long, shitty pandemic. There can always be problems, but the alternative is currently extremely problematic so I vote we go with a very promising solution.

Yes ... the 99+% survival rate for military aged folks is very problematic 

[Negatory]

17 hours ago, MyCS said:

The vaccine isn't the silver bullet. You can't factor in herd immunity until 80% of the populace receives the vaccine.

You mean like Polio? For things like measles, you have to hit ~94% and somehow we did that back when people trusted science. Source:

1) https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

17 hours ago, MyCS said:

You have vaccines from Pfizer, Astrazenca, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. How long is the effectiveness and duration? Nobody knows is what was said in the brief. 

First of all, Pfizer and Moderna are the only approved vaccines, so let's focus on those. We know for sure that, when it comes to COVID, it's way better than not being vaccinated at all (up to 95% effective) and that it has been proven to significantly reduce the severity of COVID infections when they do happen (almost all cases after vaccination are mild). Source:

2) https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201118005595/en/

19 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Yes ... the 99+% survival rate for military aged folks is very problematic 

It's not about you or me. It's never been about you or me. It's about the herd.

While you guys love to quote death rates in a vacuum - and death rates are important- you have to know the assumptions. The current assumptions are that you get admitted to get care. This literally isn't true as of this week in highly populated parts of America. Without the ability to get in hospitals due to exponentially rising cases, folks that could have been cared for are going to die. Also, it's kind of funny to see that some of you literally last week pulled BS sources out that showed that we wouldn't have ICU capacity problems (you took overall US capacity in a vacuum or cherrypicked examples) and now they are manifesting in our most populated areas in America. Sources:

3) https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-has-southern-california-icu-capacity-at-zero

4) https://abc7.com/health/what-happens-when-ca-icu-capacity-reaches-0%/8879527/

Also, why don't you all ever talk about how the hospitalization rate for COVID is significantly less biased towards old people when compared to the death rate? Younger people actually have a much higher, real chance of being admitted to the hospital and/or icu than death rates lead you to believe. For example, let's compare 30-39 year olds to 65-74 year olds.

The average COVID patient who is 30-39 years old is on the order of 22.5 times less likely to die than a 65-74 year old. But they are only 2.5 times less likely to be hospitalized. Sources:

5) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/covid-data/hospitalization-death-by-age.pdf

6) https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html

So what? Normal average aged people have no real chance of hospitalization though, right? Wrong. A predictor was created using data from a cohort of studies to tell you the relative likelihood of hospitalization based on your age, bmi, race, gender, etc. Spoilers, it's greater than you think. For example, a 40 year old male with a healthy BMI who is white statistically has a 3.6% chance to be hospitalized from COVID-19. Sources:

7) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0237419

😎https://riskcalc.org/COVID19Hospitalization/

Who cares about hospitalizations though? ICU admission is what matters, and that's probably not that bad, right? Wrong. Studies have shown that, when you take the population as a whole, generally ~24% of all COVID cases are admitted to the ICU. And that's not just old people, it's everyone. For example, out of the hospitalized young people aged 18-34, 21% ended up requiring ICU care. Look at the other age groups and you'll see the same trend. Source:

9) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2770542

Put it all together, and the hospitalization and ICU admission rate for 30-39 year olds is on the order of 3% and 0.8% respectively.  For 40-49 year olds it's on the order of 5% and 1.5%. Unfortunately, these aren't just trivial numbers, although we all wish they were. When you look at 65+, you get to terribly high requirements when it comes down to hospitalization and ICU admission rates. When a portion of society takes hospital capacity away because they go to strip clubs to protest "liberty," you end up making it literally impossible for numerous people to get life-saving care:

On 12/18/2020 at 9:28 AM, VMFA187 said:

Thinking about taking the wife and showing my appreciation tonight!

My hot take: If cases don't start to go down immediately, we are going to max out America's medical system from coast to coast. With this lack of access to care, significant amounts of people will die of treatable diseases - not just COVID. I mean, we've already had literally as many excess deaths this year as we did combat losses in WWII, so I guess this probably will fall on deaf ears. But no one's asking for permanent lockdowns or microchips or any changes to life that are long-lasting. Society is asking for you to be on the team that bands together for probably on the order of one year to take precautions, limit the spread, get vaccinated, and get through this. No one chose to have a worldwide pandemic that would unduly stress the entirety of the global human medical system. Everyone wants to get back to normal, and the only way to do that is to trust science and work as a team. Get on the team.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Negatory

[disgruntledemployee]

17 hours ago, MyCS said:

I get to sit in on the briefs. The vaccine isn't the silver bullet. You can't factor in herd immunity until 80% of the populace receives the vaccine.

You have vaccines from Pfizer, Astrazenca, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. How long is the effectiveness and duration? Nobody knows is what was said in the brief. 

I'll pass...

 

Like PowerPoint?  You're taking a weak sauce pass because of PowerPoint?  Was it from scientists that understand biochemistry, how they manufacture mRNA, and how each vaccine mechanism works?  As for duration, how long does you body keep antibody memory for tetanus?  Or typhoid?  Next, effectiveness in trials were in the 95% range, which puts it at the top of the vaccine list of effectiveness.  So yes, in this instance, it is the silver bullet.  All the other bullets are useless.

My point here, do some of your own research.  I did.  For one, the mRNA approach is something that was talked about when I was in college and will be a true change in modern medicine.  "RNA is required for protein synthesis, does not integrate into the genome, is transiently expressed, is metabolized and eliminated by the natural mechanisms of the body and is therefore considered safe."  mRNA vaccines were already developed for Zika and rabies, but those diseases are mostly in check with other vaccines or low-rate infections, i.e., no urgency to market, so their trails were low priority.  But they laid the foundation and technology to quickly develop the COVID vaccines.

Anyone here that had the Anthrax vaccine can attest to some of the adverse effects.  I will wager that the mRNA vaccine adverse effects will likely pale in comparison. 

PS, I my undegrad degree is biochem, so I have a curiosity about how they did it.  Move over CRISPR, mRNA is whizzing by on the left.

[17D_guy]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

You mean like Polio? For things like measles, you have to hit ~94% and somehow we did that back when people trusted science. Source:

1) https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

First of all, Pfizer and Moderna are the only approved vaccines, so let's focus on those. We know for sure that, when it comes to COVID, it's way better than not being vaccinated at all (up to 95% effective) and that it has been proven to significantly reduce the severity of COVID infections when they do happen (almost all cases after vaccination are mild). Source:

2) https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201118005595/en/

It's not about you or me. It's never been about you or me. It's about the herd.

While you guys love to quote death rates in a vacuum - and death rates are important- you have to know the assumptions. The current assumptions are that you get admitted to get care. This literally isn't true as of this week in highly populated parts of America. Without the ability to get in hospitals due to exponentially rising cases, folks that could have been cared for are going to die. Also, it's kind of funny to see that some of you literally last week pulled BS sources out that showed that we wouldn't have ICU capacity problems (you took overall US capacity in a vacuum or cherrypicked examples) and now they are manifesting in our most populated areas in America. Sources:

3) https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201218/covid-has-southern-california-icu-capacity-at-zero

4) https://abc7.com/health/what-happens-when-ca-icu-capacity-reaches-0%/8879527/

Also, why don't you all ever talk about how the hospitalization rate for COVID is significantly less biased towards old people when compared to the death rate? Younger people actually have a much higher, real chance of being admitted to the hospital and/or icu than death rates lead you to believe. For example, let's compare 30-39 year olds to 65-74 year olds.

The average COVID patient who is 30-39 years old is on the order of 22.5 times less likely to die than a 65-74 year old. But they are only 2.5 times less likely to be hospitalized. Sources:

5) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/covid-data/hospitalization-death-by-age.pdf

6) https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/COVIDNet/COVID19_3.html

So what? Normal average aged people have no real chance of hospitalization though, right? Wrong. A predictor was created using data from a cohort of studies to tell you the relative likelihood of hospitalization based on your age, bmi, race, gender, etc. Spoilers, it's greater than you think. For example, a 40 year old male with a healthy BMI who is white statistically has a 3.6% chance to be hospitalized from COVID-19. Sources:

7) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0237419

😎https://riskcalc.org/COVID19Hospitalization/

Who cares about hospitalizations though? ICU admission is what matters, and that's probably not that bad, right? Wrong. Studies have shown that, when you take the population as a whole, generally ~24% of all COVID cases are admitted to the ICU. And that's not just old people, it's everyone. For example, out of the hospitalized young people aged 18-34, 21% ended up requiring ICU care. Look at the other age groups and you'll see the same trend. Source:

9) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2770542

Put it all together, and the hospitalization and ICU admission rate for 30-39 year olds is on the order of 3% and 0.8% respectively.  For 40-49 year olds it's on the order of 5% and 1.5%. Unfortunately, these aren't just trivial numbers, although we all wish they were. When you look at 65+, you get to terribly high requirements when it comes down to hospitalization and ICU admission rates. When a portion of society takes hospital capacity away because they go to strip clubs to protest "liberty," you end up making it literally impossible for numerous people to get life-saving care:

My hot take: If cases don't start to go down immediately, we are going to max out America's medical system from coast to coast. With this lack of access to care, significant amounts of people will die of treatable diseases - not just COVID. I mean, we've already had literally as many excess deaths this year as we did combat losses in WWII, so I guess this probably will fall on deaf ears. But no one's asking for permanent lockdowns or microchips or any changes to life that are long-lasting. Society is asking for you to be on the team that bands together for probably on the order of one year to take precautions, limit the spread, get vaccinated, and get through this. No one chose to have a worldwide pandemic that would unduly stress the entirety of the global human medical system. Everyone wants to get back to normal, and the only way to do that is to trust science and work as a team. Get on the team.

UT's current count, this is fine -

Percent of all non-ICU Bed Occupied	55.2%
Percent of all ICU Beds Occupied	99.4% (534/537)
Percent of Referral Center ICU Beds Occupied	104.1% (480/461)

[Sua Sponte]

On 12/18/2020 at 10:28 AM, VMFA187 said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/strip-club-ruling-covid-rules-protects-restaurants-san-diego-judge-says/

 

Thinking about taking the wife and showing my appreciation tonight!

Hell yeah brother, your wife loves strip clubs!

[Sua Sponte]

On 12/18/2020 at 6:16 PM, MyCS said:

I get to sit in on the briefs. The vaccine isn't the silver bullet. You can't factor in herd immunity until 80% of the populace receives the vaccine.

You have vaccines from Pfizer, Astrazenca, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson. How long is the effectiveness and duration? Nobody knows is what was said in the brief. 

I'll pass...

 

Aren’t you active duty? Like you have a choice of declining the vaccine or not 😂