COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[HeloDude]

Hey, trust the science…or something.

[contraildash]

The HQ I work in put out guidance about two months ago: "vaccinated = no mask. not vaccinated = mask." Since they legally cannot ask, it is on the honor system. I had a good laugh the first day this policy was effective, 90% of the people there were not wearing masks....to include the most anti-vac conspiracy tout'n folks I've ever met.

Fast forward to this past week when the chief of staff puts out an email that says "while we cannot ask if you have had the vaccine, we do know what the vaccinated rates of the staff are. We have noticed a large discrepancy between the vaccinated rate and those not wearing masks inside the building."

Oh no shit? Didn't see that coming.....

[pawnman]

38 minutes ago, contraildash said:

The HQ I work in put out guidance about two months ago: "vaccinated = no mask. not vaccinated = mask." Since they legally cannot ask, it is on the honor system. I had a good laugh the first day this policy was effective, 90% of the people there were not wearing masks....to include the most anti-vac conspiracy tout'n folks I've ever met.

Fast forward to this past week when the chief of staff puts out an email that says "while we cannot ask if you have had the vaccine, we do know what the vaccinated rates of the staff are. We have noticed a large discrepancy between the vaccinated rate and those not wearing masks inside the building."

Oh no shit? Didn't see that coming.....

And that's how you end up with everyone wearing a mask, because the anti-vaxx people are too selfish and dishonest to follow the guidance without enforcement. 

I'm looking forward to mandatory vaccination for the military. Then we can put a stop to these asinine policies. 

[contraildash]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

And that's how you end up with everyone wearing a mask, because the anti-vaxx people are too selfish and dishonest to follow the guidance without enforcement. 

I'm looking forward to mandatory vaccination for the military. Then we can put a stop to these asinine policies. 

threw a mask in my bag for work....totally expect a 'everyone will wear diapers' response to this...

[tac airlifter]

Being vaccinated is no obstacle to having and spreading COVID.  All of our recent positive cases are fully vaccinated.  The whole thing is a charade.

[pawnman]

4 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Being vaccinated is no obstacle to having and spreading COVID.  All of our recent positive cases are fully vaccinated.  The whole thing is a charade.

How many ended up dead or hospitalized?  Something like 99% of covid deaths and 97% of hospitalizations since Jan 1st are unvaccinated people.

If everyone is vaccinated then sure, you might catch it...but the severity becomes so low that it doesn't really matter.

Edited July 26, 2021 by pawnman

[Richard_Butte]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

Being vaccinated is no obstacle to having and spreading COVID.  All of our recent positive cases are fully vaccinated.  The whole thing is a charade.

Do you have anything at all to back that up? Because its false...

[tac airlifter]

10 minutes ago, Richard_Butte said:

Do you have anything at all to back that up? Because its false...

I’m fully vaccinated and recently tested positive.  Also, everyone of the positives we’ve had recently have been fully vaccinated— I can see the vaccination status of my members.

There has been a peculiar phenomenon during this entire pandemic: people like you certain that things are true or false without actually knowing at all.

[pawnman]

19 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

I’m fully vaccinated and recently tested positive.  Also, everyone of the positives we’ve had recently have been fully vaccinated— I can see the vaccination status of my members.

There has been a peculiar phenomenon during this entire pandemic: people like you certain that things are true or false without actually knowing at all.

So...in over a billion vaccinations worldwide, you present a half dozen individuals as proof that there's no difference in the infection rated between vaccinated and unvaccinated people?

The plural of anecdote is not "data".

[tac airlifter]

7 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So...in over a billion vaccinations worldwide, you present a half dozen individuals as proof that there's no difference in the infection rated between vaccinated and unvaccinated people?

The plural of anecdote is not "data".

UK reporting 40% of COVID hospitalizations are from double vaccinated.  Maybe we can at least agree that more is going on than headlines reveal, and more data with less censorship will help the public be informed.

”your actual experience means nothing because I have government figures indicating otherwise” has proven to be an unconvincing tactic. But I see you will continue using it regardless.

[Guardian]

And how many of the unvaccinated deaths are people with other risk factors? Are there many military members this would be a factor for? Not talking about the grey beard guard and reserve guys with risk factors. But everyone else.

[pawnman]

55 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

UK reporting 40% of COVID hospitalizations are from double vaccinated.  Maybe we can at least agree that more is going on than headlines reveal, and more data with less censorship will help the public be informed.

”your actual experience means nothing because I have government figures indicating otherwise” has proven to be an unconvincing tactic. But I see you will continue using it regardless.

Well, I know a bunch of people who got vaccinated and didn't get covid even after they were exposed.

See, we both have personal experiences. Are you convinced by mine?

[tac airlifter]

42 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Well, I know a bunch of people who got vaccinated and didn't get covid even after they were exposed.

See, we both have personal experiences. Are you convinced by mine?

Yes, I’m convinced the vaccine has an effect.  Clearly I chose to get it.  What exactly the effect is and why it differs between people I don’t know.  Ergo I’m opposed to mandating my children receive it.  And folks telling me my experiences are “false” is unproductive.

[pawnman]

13 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Yes, I’m convinced the vaccine has an effect.  Clearly I chose to get it.  What exactly the effect is and why it differs between people I don’t know.  Ergo I’m opposed to mandating my children receive it.  And folks telling me my experiences are “false” is unproductive.

I didn't say they were false.  Your personal experiences aren't a good way to make policy.

It's like me mandating that the speed limit on the highway is 35 MPH because I know someone who got killed in a car accident doing 65 MPH.  We have reams of data that show what safe speed limits for highways are...my anecdote doesn't invalidate those reams of data.

Similarly, we have a dataset of over a billion people vaccinated, with a very low rate of breakthrough infections and side effects.  Someone telling me their buddy had side effects doesn't undo the millions of people who didn't.  Someone telling me they know a few people who got Covid after getting vaccinated doesn't undo the huge drops in cases where vaccination rates are high.

Here's my data.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187

Quote

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/06/14/covid-cases-vaccination-rates/

Quote

Counties with high vaccination had low coronavirus rates that are going down. In counties where few people are vaccinated, not only are there higher case rates, but the number of cases there also is growing.

Love to see the data set on 40% of hospitalizations in the UK being vaccinated.

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by pawnman

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

I didn't say they were false.  Your personal experiences aren't a good way to make policy.

It's like me mandating that the speed limit on the highway is 35 MPH because I know someone who got killed in a car accident doing 65 MPH.  We have reams of data that show what safe speed limits for highways are...my anecdote doesn't invalidate those reams of data.

Similarly, we have a dataset of over a billion people vaccinated, with a very low rate of breakthrough infections and side effects.  Someone telling me their buddy had side effects doesn't undo the millions of people who didn't.  Someone telling me they know a few people who got Covid after getting vaccinated doesn't undo the huge drops in cases where vaccination rates are high.

Here's my data.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-941fcf43d9731c76c16e7354f5d5e187

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/06/14/covid-cases-vaccination-rates/

Love to see the data set on 40% of hospitalizations in the UK being vaccinated.

 

Actually this is really plausible and believable. Remember the vaccine only has ~90% efficacy. So 10% of people are still getting COVID. If 100% of people in the UK were vaccinated, 100% of your hospitalizations would be vaccinated. The UK has a very high vaccinated population (70%) that is disproportionately weighted by people who are at risk individuals (were able to be vaccinated earlier.)

Hence, the 10% of 70 people vaccinated probably holds a lot of weight against the 30 unvaccinated people who are predominantly low risk. 

The most important statistic regarding the UK though is their overall hospitalizations which; are only 1/10 of what they were 6 months ago when their infection numbers were nearly identical.

This big pretty problem I see with COVID policy at the moment is we lost sight of the goal. The goal was the reduce casualties by minimizing hospitalizations. Somehow the mindset has shifted to the goal being 0 case #'s. That will never happen and why do we care? 

[brabus]

32 minutes ago, FLEA said:

The goal was the reduce casualties by minimizing hospitalizations. Somehow the mindset has shifted to the goal being 0 case #'s. That will never happen and why do we care? 

Shack. More people die every day from random accidents (e.g. falling off a ladder) than Covid. Heart disease kills 6x more people daily than Covid. So why is our policy “zero cases!”-driven for something that’s not even in the top 5? Why do we continually move the goalposts on Covid, yet don’t do shit public-policy wise for heart disease prevention/cure, cancer prevention/cure, etc. Covid is a thing and kills people, got it…but the data does not remotely support the totalitarian reaction from the gov/some portions of society, expressed or implied.
 

Get your shot, or don’t…do what’s best for you and the people you regularly interact with, then STFU about your opinion of what someone else’s personal decision should be.

Edited July 26, 2021 by brabus

[Danger41]

I know this doesn’t count, but I also got covid recently after vaccine. Doctor told me that “60% of the people getting it coming in here are vaccinated”. Not scientific but that’s what the doctor told me.

[Scooter14]

I know this doesn’t count, but I also got covid recently after vaccine. Doctor told me that “60% of the people getting it coming in here are vaccinated”. Not scientific but that’s what the doctor told me.

How severe was your case of Covid?

How severe are the cases that the doctor is seeing in vaccinated people?

if all of the people that got the vaccine and then got Covid or able to fight it off without ending up in the hospital I think that is a win for the vaccinated crowd.

[uhhello]

4 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

 

How severe was your case of Covid?

How severe are the cases that the doctor is seeing in vaccinated people?

if all of the people that got the vaccine and then got Covid or able to fight it off without ending up in the hospital I think that is a win for the vaccinated crowd.

 

Had a buddy's family get it.  Of age folks were vaccinated.  They were put on their asses for 2 days but back at it.   

[Danger41]

5 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

 

How severe was your case of Covid?

How severe are the cases that the doctor is seeing in vaccinated people?

if all of the people that got the vaccine and then got Covid or able to fight it off without ending up in the hospital I think that is a win for the vaccinated crowd.

 

My case was 5 days of getting my ass kicked completely. After that it was fine. I’m a healthy person with no real health problems and a physique that I would describe as “godlike”. Medical science would probably describe me as balding mid-30’s dude that could lose 15 lbs. 
 

I don’t know about the other people, the antecdote just stood out to me.

I don’t really care to join in on either side of this but I do find it interesting the number of vaccinated folks getting sick. If I hadn’t been vaccinated, I guess I would’ve died since I was sick for so long. 

[Alpharatz]

This whole Covid situation is gonna be a treasure trove of data to help deal with the "next time"  All of the anecdotes like the above can be rolled into a conclusion about how to deal with another one..For example...Why waste vaccine supplies in states where refusal is grossly high?   Like the old time test flying..ya lose some but make a lot of progress...  It's mighty hard on the medics though...

[Pooter]

It's fascinating to me that after a year and a half of this people are still bringing up anecdotal evidence in the face of the literal sea of data from around the globe on this virus and the vaccines. Maybe anecdotes carry more emotional weight which cause them to resonate with people more than hard data. I'm gradually coming to the depressing realization that a lot of people simply don't care about the data, don't understand it, or are so jaded by politics they think it's all manipulated. 

[busdriver]

anecdotes carry more emotional weight

It's human nature. Are also: "my/your truth"

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[tac airlifter]

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

It's fascinating to me that after a year and a half of this people are still bringing up anecdotal evidence in the face of the literal sea of data from around the globe on this virus and the vaccines. Maybe anecdotes carry more emotional weight which cause them to resonate with people more than hard data. I'm gradually coming to the depressing realization that a lot of people simply don't care about the data, don't understand it, or are so jaded by politics they think it's all manipulated. 

Good point.  The “trust the data” position was undermined early in the pandemic.  The same scientists who I’d normally trust were telling me Trump political rallies were super spreader events but then signing letters saying BLM riots were ok.  Data indicates kids not statistically significant spreaders but we have to cancel schools when the teachers union edits the CDC talking points.  “This definitely developed naturally” turned into a total hoax as the scientists were discovered to be behind an attempt to hide the origin in a lab in China they were donating to.  These aren’t conspiracy theories, all of these events above happened.

When data originates from people caught lying, their additional data is suspect. This is why Fauci’s “noble lie” approach is so damaging.  We are the most advanced and scientifically minded society to have ever existed.  That we’re back to telling each other anecdotes is not a sign we’re idiots, but rather the scientists should have stayed in their lane of science. 

[GrndPndr]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

Maybe anecdotes carry more emotional weight...

Close.  They carry more dramatic weight, and therefore get the attention of the weak minded.