COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Pooter]

I've said it before on this thread but I'm going to say it again because people are making the same mistake again:

Stop conflating vaccine safety/effectiveness with dumb leftist public health policies. 
 

Vaccine safety data exists and it is very convincing. The infertility concerns have been roundly debunked.  Serious side effects have not manifested in statistically significant amounts after literally billions of doses have been administered. As a young person, your odds of dying from covid are very low. But based on all available data, your odds of even a moderate adverse vaccine reaction are orders of magnitude lower than that.  And the vaccine buys you robust protection against very unlikely but very catastrophic outcomes.
 

Based on everything we know, this vaccine is safe. It has nothing to do with whatever fauci is flip flopping about on the news every night. It has nothing to do with how you feel about mask mandates and how each state's governor is handling this. It has nothing to do with bad DOD policies either. If you can't separate legitimate vaccine data from the political food fight going on, perhaps it's because you get your news from a talking head with a vested interest in perpetuating said food fight.

You are free to do whatever you want at the end of the day, but I am confident that for most people, taking the vaccine would be the obvious choice if they could just mentally separate it from the political baggage. 

[Sua Sponte]

55 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

Because something is “law” does not make it just. The courts are not infallible.

Who determines if a law is "just" if courts aren't infallible?

[Pooter]

I would love to see any data the hesitant people in this thread have that is telling them getting the shot is not worth the risk. 
 

And before you repeat it for the millionth time, let's hear something other than the, "I'm not in the at-risk demographic" argument. It's not true. You are at risk. The risk is very small. And the vaccine can reduce that risk even more.
 

You also aren't statistically likely to have an engine fire in the jet tomorrow. But you practice the boldface and do testing every month and do EPEs every year. It blows my mind that aviators are failing to understand this basic risk management concept. Just because something is very unlikely to happen doesn't mean we throw up our hands and ignore easy ways to mitigate it. 
 

Other arguments that don't constitute data:

-heebee geebies about a hypothetical vaccine side effect that manifests ten years from now

-microchipping

-DNA modification

-infertility rumors that have been debunked

As far as I'm concerned the only argument against getting the vaccine that holds any water at all are people who are positive they already had covid and are coasting on natural immunity. But I would be very happy to be proven wrong. 

[Scooter14]

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article252953008.html

It’s not just old people right now. People seem to be clinging to the “I’m young, I don’t have to worry.”

Bottom line, people our age (30-50 demographic) that aren’t vaccinated are getting really sick.

Do what you like with the data, but that’s what’s happening in places that have low vaccination rates like MO, AL, FL...

[Pooter]

3 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article252953008.html

It’s not just old people right now. People seem to be clinging to the “I’m young, I don’t have to worry.”

Bottom line, people our age (30-50 demographic) that aren’t vaccinated are getting really sick.

Do what you like with the data, but that’s what’s happening in places that have low vaccination rates like MO, AL, FL...

"Yeah but those are probably a bunch of out of shape civilian fatties with a million co-morbidities , not absolute STUDS like all of us military types are."
 

-can't run 1.5 miles without a borderline medical emergency

-polishes off a 6 pack, 10 ZYN pouches, and a juul cartridge per day

-survives workday on a diet of white monsters, coffee, corn, and assorted snacko candies

-running on 5 hrs of sleep

-blood pressure absolutely through the roof

 

[FLEA]

4 hours ago, busdriver said:

This is the fundamental disconnect.  Some agree with you.  Some think the primary purpose of government is protect its citizens rights.

Yeah no where in my oath of office do I ever agree to protect the citizens. In fact there is only one thing in all oaths of office in the US federal government we do agree to protect. 

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, viper154 said:

Completely irrelevant to any point. Nice attempt at deflection though. If you would like to have a productive conversation about vaccines, in particular the covid vaccine, and the governments role in that, I am happy to have a healthy debate. If you want to deflect any productive conversation into a keyboard warrior pissing match, I’m not interested.

Based on all your previous responses to other people, I’m guessing you will be choosing the later route. I encourage you to take a step back and attempt constructive conversation instead of deflecting any post that differs from your opinion.  

 

Edit to add-Immigration isn’t a right btw, Constitution specifically grants Congress the power to make immigration law. 

 

"Why do you think government can force vaccines on us?"

"Well, here's a long list of other things government does in the name of public safety"

"Stop talking about government, we're talking about the vaccines".

It hurts my heart that people this stupid are flying militarily aircraft. 

[viper154]

51 minutes ago, pawnman said:

 

It hurts my heart that people this stupid are flying militarily aircraft. 

Ha! The government doesn’t force you to to buy a gun, force you to get a drivers license, force you vote, or force you to immigrate here. And for fucks sake, you tried to argue that immigration is right!!  Article one, section 8, US Constitution gives the authority of immigration law to Congress!!
 

I see why they keep you in the back of jet. I also see why you got passed over the first time, makes perfect sense now. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by viper154

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, viper154 said:

Ha! The government doesn’t force you to to buy a gun, force you to get a drivers license, force you vote, or force you to immigrate here. And for fucks sake, you tried to argue that immigration is right!!  Article one, section 8, US Constitution gives the authority of immigration law to Congress!!
 

I see why they keep you in the back of jet. I also see why you got passed over the first time, makes perfect sense now. 

I hear F-16s are pretty safe. Most land perfectly fine. No need to strap into that ejection seat.  People get injured by the seat motors all the time. They should just remove them.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Prozac said:

Nope:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-not-gene-therapy

https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/
 

Also, your statement that MRNA vaccines “killed all animals during a trial” is patently false as well:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mice/fact-check-a-2012-study-did-not-use-mrna-vaccines-or-result-in-animals-dying-from-disease-idUSKBN2A22UW

Finally, as others have stated, your decision to join the military means you have effectively given up your right to decide what vaccinations you get. 

From your webmd.com article: "You may see people posting on social media about the vaccines being a kind of gene therapy, and they're partly right..." and it goes on to explain how I am right in that the immunizations are genetic EDITING drugs. They insert mRNA inside your cells which causes your body to react. Editing, as in, modifying. It's using genetic technology to modify the way your body behaves. One of the problems is, sometimes people's body's don't stop creating the spike protein, which leads to disability and/or death. Notwithstanding any long-term effects of the drug that don't cause that. You throw some webmd article at me, then don't even acknowledge the article admits it does in fact edit ones genes. Webmd is a corporate owned website which serves as their tool to make profits, not offer un-biased medical/scientific literature. Read past the headlines. Your second article is more of the same.

Regarding the animals dying, yes they did die. They skipped animal trials for covid immunizations because their previous mRNA research on animals killed them. They claim it wasn't because of the "vaccine", but because once they introduced the virus to the now "immunized" animals, it was their own body's immune response that killed them. So they simultaneously admit during those trials that their mRNA "vaccine" did not work and animals also died because of their "vaccine" which modified their body through mRNA technology.

You might want to look into the risk of Antibody-dependent enhancement from these immunizations. No, not the top 20 corporate controlled fact check ™️ websites brought to you by some mind corralling search engine. Can you file a lawsuit if you're harmed and can prove they knew it would happen but didn't disclose it?

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I hear F-16s are pretty safe. Most land perfectly fine. No need to strap into that ejection seat.  People get injured by the seat motors all the time. They should just remove them.

Still coping and still deflecting. Sad. Wake me up when operation of an F-16 requires modifying one's bodily immune response system with an experimental drug.

[HeloDude]

Looks like someone needs an 11-402 refresher…

3.2.3. Aviation service is a privilege, not a right. Entry into training for the rated officer and career enlisted aviator career fields is voluntary. 

[pawnman]

I'm starting to remember why I tapped out of this discussion a few pages back.

People happy to use analogies when it suits them, bitch about analogies when it doesn't.

I cannot fucking wait for this vaccine to be mandatory.  I hope a bunch of you put your money where your mouth is and get out when it happens.

For people who decided to sacrifice for the greater good and take on a dangerous profession, you all sure are gun shy about something far lower risk that protects more people that dropping bombs in the middle of Afghanistan.

[Prozac]

For those still unclear on how mRNA vaccines work, here is a well done video that’s easy to follow:

FWIW mRNA is the future of vaccination and may help humanity tackle everything from AIDS to the common cold. Will the pharmaceuticals make billions as a result? Probably. That doesn’t negate the fact that these vaccines are safe and effective. Besides, I thought we were all about the free market in this country. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

I'm starting to remember why I tapped out of this discussion a few pages back.

People happy to use analogies when it suits them, bitch about analogies when it doesn't.

I cannot ing wait for this vaccine to be mandatory.  I hope a bunch of you put your money where your mouth is and get out when it happens.

For people who decided to sacrifice for the greater good and take on a dangerous profession, you all sure are gun shy about something far lower risk that protects more people that dropping bombs in the middle of Afghanistan.

It appears everyone in this thread has been willing to have a discussion with you, but you have still wished for forced injections. I don't think anyone has told you that you personally shouldn't be able to take it. It's that non-consenting persons shouldn't be forced to. Until proven otherwise, we have to assume these drugs will have effects on us long after we leave the military. Not akin to the risk we willingly take by joining the military in the first place to see combat.

[glockenspiel]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

I'm starting to remember why I tapped out of this discussion a few pages back.

People happy to use analogies when it suits them, bitch about analogies when it doesn't.

I cannot ing wait for this vaccine to be mandatory.  I hope a bunch of you put your money where your mouth is and get out when it happens.

For people who decided to sacrifice for the greater good and take on a dangerous profession, you all sure are gun shy about something far lower risk that protects more people that dropping bombs in the middle of Afghanistan.

Thank you for your sacrifice. 🍻 to pawn

[Sua Sponte]

6 hours ago, viper154 said:

Ha! The government doesn’t force you to to buy a gun, force you to get a drivers license, force you vote, or force you to immigrate here. And for fucks sake, you tried to argue that immigration is right!!  Article one, section 8, US Constitution gives the authority of immigration law to Congress!!
 

I see why they keep you in the back of jet. I also see why you got passed over the first time, makes perfect sense now. 

Ad hominem attacks are usually a great way to make sure the argument you’re making is solid.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Sua Sponte

[M2]

19 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Some bases are back to masks for everyone without regard to vaccination status, so that incentive is gone, at least temporarily.

It's not "some bases," any bases in "areas of substantial or high community transmission" per the latest DoD policy effective 28 July 2021...

Quote

"In areas of substantial or high community transmission, DoD requires all Service members, Federal employees, onsite contractor employees, and visitors, regardless of vaccination status, to wear a mask in an indoor setting in installations and other facilities owned, leased or otherwise controlled by DoD."

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jul/28/2002814362/-1/-1/1/UPDATED-MASK-GUIDELINES-FOR-ALL-DOD-INSTALLATIONS-AND-OTHER-FACILITIES-OSD006862-21-FOD-FINAL.PDF

If you want to find out if you're included in this buffoonery, here is the CDC website that will tell you which counties are "areas of substantial or high community transmission"...

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

[pawnman]

https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0bGKBf3K?share_id=eyJ1c2VyaWQiOjEyOTY2MjQ3NCwiZG9jX2lkIjoiMGJHS0JmM0siLCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjgwMTI0MzQ4MzF9&share_destination_id=MTI5NjYyNDc0LTE2MjgwMTI0MzY0MDk=&s=a7&pd=08m38EIR&hl=en_US

 

The courts are not on the side of anti-vaxxers.

I personally hope we see a ton of these cases from more universities, airlines, restaurants, bars, stadiums...

[Guardian]

I would wager a large majority of people who aren’t taking the covid vax aren’t anti Vax’ers

[pawnman]

5 minutes ago, Guardian said:

I would wager a large majority of people who aren’t taking the covid vax aren’t anti Vax’ers

I don't know what else to call people who are anti-vaccine.  It makes even less sense to support all vaccines except this one...

[VR4life69]

6 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I don't know what else to call people who are anti-vaccine.  It makes even less sense to support all vaccines except this one...

Please explain how it makes less sense. The vaccine is still under an EUA, not fully approved. Neither you nor any medical experts can say with 100 percent certainty that there will be no long-term side effects. Many people who are less at risk have made a simple risk calculation and concluded that they would rather take their chances with the virus. You can disagree with that risk assessment, but their decision doesn't make them an anti-vaxxer.

[pawnman]

6 minutes ago, VR4life69 said:

Please explain how it makes less sense. The vaccine is still under an EUA, not fully approved. Neither you nor any medical experts can say with 100 percent certainty that there will be no long-term side effects. Many people who are less at risk have made a simple risk calculation and concluded that they would rather take their chances with the virus. You can disagree with that risk assessment, but their decision doesn't make them an anti-vaxxer.

Medical experts can't say with 100% certainty that any treatment, ever will not have long-term side-effects.  You could develop side-effects from taking Tylenol.  But the probability is extremely low.

How long do you want this vaccine studied before you'll take it?  5 years?  10 years? 30 years?

How long did we study the anthrax vaccine before that was administered?  

What were the long-term studies on the polio vaccine in 1955?  Can you imagine if parents back then had the same reaction to "no long-term studies" as you're spouting right now?

 

[VR4life69]

6 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Medical experts can't say with 100% certainty that any treatment, ever will not have long-term side-effects.  You could develop side-effects from taking Tylenol.  But the probability is extremely low.

How long do you want this vaccine studied before you'll take it?  5 years?  10 years? 30 years?

How long did we study the anthrax vaccine before that was administered?  

What were the long-term studies on the polio vaccine in 1955?  Can you imagine if parents back then had the same reaction to "no long-term studies" as you're spouting right now?

 

Of course they can't say with 100 percent certainty. My point is that this vaccine has not been studied long enough to really know what the long-term side effects could be. 

The average vaccine takes 10-15 years to get through the entire approval process. So yes, I (who am in an extremely low-risk category) personally would prefer that the Covid vaccines be studied for a similar length of time before I take one of them. 

Yeah...the mortality rate for polio back in the 50's was like 5% or more, and even if you survived you could end up being paralyzed. Not even in the same ballpark as Covid, so is completely irrelevant to the discussion. 

You didn't answer my question as to why this stance makes even less sense than being completely anti-vaccine.

[pawnman]

5 minutes ago, VR4life69 said:

Of course they can't say with 100 percent certainty. My point is that this vaccine has not been studied long enough to really know what the long-term side effects could be. 

The average vaccine takes 10-15 years to get through the entire approval process. So yes, I (who am in an extremely low-risk category) personally would prefer that the Covid vaccines be studied for a similar length of time before I take one of them. 

Yeah...the mortality rate for polio back in the 50's was like 5% or more, and even if you survived you could end up being paralyzed. Not even in the same ballpark as Covid, so is completely irrelevant to the discussion. 

You didn't answer my question as to why this stance makes even less sense than being completely anti-vaccine.

So one virus caused death and paralysis...so we rushed a vaccine.  And now we have a virus that causes death and long-term heart problems...but there's no parallels at all?

It makes less sense that being completely anti-vaxx because all the side-effects you're worried about are already side-effects from the MMR, flu, polio, or TB vaccines.  Which, if you're in the military, you already took.  But you're wringing your hands over a vaccine that's been distributed to over a billion people worldwide with side-effect rates far lower than the rates of major issues from covid, yes, even for healthy young studs in the military. 

Is your complaint just the EUA?  So as soon as it gets fully approved (likely in the next few months), you'll suddenly be on-board?

Edited August 3, 2021 by pawnman