COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

I don’t understand how you can look at all the data and conclude everyone needs to get the shot/getting the shot is “all that it takes” to end all this bullshit. But, I respect your difference in opinion though I may disagree, and will not try to force you or your family to align with my views. Maybe you should try doing the same towards others. 

Do you feel the same about all public health measures? Or is it just the covid vaccines?

Edit to add: looks like that Russian propaganda is more effective than we thought.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-trolls-fueled-anti-vaccination-debate-in-us-by-spreading-misinformation-twitter-study/

Edited August 8, 2021 by pawnman

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Do you feel the same about all public health measures? Or is it just the covid vaccines?

Edit to add: looks like that Russian propaganda is more effective than we thought.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-trolls-fueled-anti-vaccination-debate-in-us-by-spreading-misinformation-twitter-study/

 

[pawnman]

8 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

 

Got that from the Alex Jones news center?

[FLEA]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

It's not about political narrative. It's about ending the pandemic. 

I don't understand how you can look at all the data available and conclude that the anti-vaxx argument is the logical one. 

It's not just about ending the pandemic or not ending it. It's about protecting civil liberties as well, which a large amount of people are endanger of losing once we start establishing a precedent. Our constitutional checks and balances weren't written for the convenience of a peace time government, rather, they were delibertly put in there to protect individual freedoms in times of crises, as crises is most often the excuse politicians will use to erode them. 

I personally got the vaccine. But when people who are apprehensive to vaccines come to me about my experience, the only thing I can tell them is I didn't have side effects, and my wife possibly did. I can't tell them there are no long term side effects because we simply don't know that. Noone does. I can't tell them they will be 100% safe because I don't have the ability to guarantee that. I certainly can't tell then that getting vaccinated will means they won't have to wear a mask or get COVID tested anymore because frankly that's not true. So if those are their apprehensions to the vaccine, they are certainly entitled them as well as entitled to their freedom of bodily autonomy. 

But when people start pushing a narrative that we need to do this to end the pandemic and that means we need mandates, I will push back because 1.) I don't care, the pandemic can go for 100 years and I'll still stand on the side of individual liberty and 2.) Vaccination of individuals on its own will not end a pandemic. It may ease it in some cases but the only thing that ends a pandemic is viral eradication (extraordinarily hard) or waiting for the virus to mutate into an evolutionary strategy that is less fatal to humans. It will probably be a decade before either of those happen. Spanish flu took 10 years to mutate into what we know today as H1N1. 

[pawnman]

12 minutes ago, FLEA said:

It's not just about ending the pandemic or not ending it. It's about protecting civil liberties as well, which a large amount of people are endanger of losing once we start establishing a precedent. Our constitutional checks and balances weren't written for the convenience of a peace time government, rather, they were delibertly put in there to protect individual freedoms in times of crises, as crises is most often the excuse politicians will use to erode them. 

I personally got the vaccine. But when people who are apprehensive to vaccines come to me about my experience, the only thing I can tell them is I didn't have side effects, and my wife possibly did. I can't tell them there are no long term side effects because we simply don't know that. Noone does. I can't tell them they will be 100% safe because I don't have the ability to guarantee that. I certainly can't tell then that getting vaccinated will means they won't have to wear a mask or get COVID tested anymore because frankly that's not true. So if those are their apprehensions to the vaccine, they are certainly entitled them as well as entitled to their freedom of bodily autonomy. 

But when people start pushing a narrative that we need to do this to end the pandemic and that means we need mandates, I will push back because 1.) I don't care, the pandemic can go for 100 years and I'll still stand on the side of individual liberty and 2.) Vaccination of individuals on its own will not end a pandemic. It may ease it in some cases but the only thing that ends a pandemic is viral eradication (extraordinarily hard) or waiting for the virus to mutate into an evolutionary strategy that is less fatal to humans. It will probably be a decade before either of those happen. Spanish flu took 10 years to mutate into what we know today as H1N1. 

How did we eradicate polio?  Was it by letting people wring their hands about potential side effects, or by mandating vaccines for every man, woman, and child?

You want to be on the side of liberty, then great. Just realize choices have consequences. I'm 100% for keeping people out of certain jobs, restricting ability to travel to hot spots, mandating quarantine periods for travelers, etc based on vaccine status. Just like we currently do for a whole host of other vaccines.  We've got a whole lot of case law on the side of restrictions for unvaccinated people.

Edited August 8, 2021 by pawnman

[SurelySerious]

How did we eradicate polio?  Was it by letting people wring their hands about potential side effects, or by mandating vaccines for every man, woman, and child?
You want to be on the side of liberty, then great. Just realize choices have consequences. I'm 100% for keeping people out of certain jobs, restricting ability to travel to hot spots, mandating quarantine periods for travelers, etc based on vaccine status. Just like we currently do for a whole host of other vaccines.  We've got a whole lot of case law on the side of restrictions for unvaccinated people.

Right…but Covid isn’t like polio behavior wise, it’s much more flu-like wrt the vaccine. Keep trying to eradicate Covid and you’ll be in Sydney style lockdown forever, vaccine or not.

You’ve already proven you have no regard for personal liberty. Still keeping that list of cadets who weren’t wearing masks so you can hold it against them later?

[pawnman]

36 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

Right…but Covid isn’t like polio behavior wise, it’s much more flu-like wrt the vaccine. Keep trying to eradicate Covid and you’ll be in Sydney style lockdown forever, vaccine or not.

You’ve already proven you have no regard for personal liberty. Still keeping that list of cadets who weren’t wearing masks so you can hold it against them later?

Nah, the college enforces that for me. It also forced every faculty member and student to get vaccinated. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

How did we eradicate polio?  Was it by letting people wring their hands about potential side effects, or by mandating vaccines for every man, woman, and child?

You want to be on the side of liberty, then great. Just realize choices have consequences. I'm 100% for keeping people out of certain jobs, restricting ability to travel to hot spots, mandating quarantine periods for travelers, etc based on vaccine status. Just like we currently do for a whole host of other vaccines.  We've got a whole lot of case law on the side of restrictions for unvaccinated people.

1. Sanitation practices into the 20th century helped tremendously with infection reduction. Vaccines were not the sole reason.

1a. The covid injection is not a vaccine.

2. Because something is “law” doesn’t make it just.

2a. The viewing of case law, such as Jacobson v. Massachusetts, at the time decreed by SCOTUS, has since changed in SCOTUS’ view. Case law evolves.

Our nation was founded by men who told the aristocratic robe and wig wearing courts to frig off. Courts are not infallible.

Edited August 8, 2021 by dogfish78
Spelling

[pawnman]

6 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

1. Sanitation practices into the 20th century helped tremendously with infection reduction. Vaccines were not the sole reason.

1a. The covid injection is not a vaccine.

2. Because something is “law” doesn’t make it just.

2a. The viewing of case law, such as Jacobson v. Massachusetts, at the time decreed by SCOTUS, has since changed in SCOTUS’ view. Case law evolves.

Our nation was founded by men who told the aristocratic robe and wig wearing courts to frig off. Courts are not infallible.

Yeah, all sanitation, not vaccines. That's why we never see outbreaks of other disease among the unvaccinated...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/29/us-measles-cases-climb-to-704-as-the-disease-spreads-among-unvaccinated-people.html

[Guardian]

Yeah, all sanitation, not vaccines. That's why we never see outbreaks of other disease among the unvaccinated...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/29/us-measles-cases-climb-to-704-as-the-disease-spreads-among-unvaccinated-people.html

I disagree with you pawnman. I think vaccines have helped.

Unless you were being sarcastic in which case I wouldn’t agree with you because no one said they didn’t help. You’re not even stretching the truth of what 78 said. You are fabricating.

Stop the Cap

[pawnman]

10 minutes ago, Guardian said:

I disagree with you pawnman. I think vaccines have helped.

Unless you were being sarcastic in which case I wouldn’t agree with you because no one said they didn’t help. You’re not even stretching the truth of what 78 said. You are fabricating.

Stop the Cap

Sorry, I thought the sarcasm would have been obvious when I followed up with people getting measles in 2019...but it wouldn't be the first time I overestimated the intelligence of people in this thread.

 

[Guardian]

Sorry, I thought the sarcasm would have been obvious when I followed up with people getting measles in 2019...but it wouldn't be the first time I overestimated the intelligence of people in this thread.
 

Sarcasm was received with sarcasm of my own.

My point is you make points of taking people out of context and saying things they didn’t. It makes your other points which may be valid seem not worth paying attention to.

And then you end it with a underhanded dig. Also makes you less believable and not worthy of debating with.

Random question. Are you female? No reason. Just curious.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Random question. Are you female? No reason. Just curious.

I hereby submit my formal declaration for @Guardian to be nominated as having submitted the most based post ever.

[pawnman]

17 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Sarcasm was received with sarcasm of my own.

My point is you make points of taking people out of context and saying things they didn’t. It makes your other points which may be valid seem not worth paying attention to.

And then you end it with a underhanded dig. Also makes you less believable and not worthy of debating with.

Random question. Are you female? No reason. Just curious.

Wow...telling me my "underhanded digs" make my points less valid, followed by insulting my masculinity. 

Talk about undermining your own points, asshole. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, pawnman said:

Wow...telling me my "underhanded digs" make my points less valid, followed by insulting my masculinity. 

Talk about undermining your own points, asshole. 

Seethe, cope, and dilate.

This image is the Assistant Secretary for Health for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. A literal tranny. A human with male biology, claiming to be a female, attempting to mandate others to trust the federal government's "science", while telling you you're a bigot if you call him out that he's a man. This is the clown world you support.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Nah, the college enforces that for me. It also forced every faculty member and student to get vaccinated. 

Cringe and blue-pilled. Desk jokey cope.

[Guest]

On 8/7/2021 at 12:52 PM, Prozac said:

Suggest anyone here who is interested in China’s recent rise and what it’s future holds watch the four part “China’s Reckoning” series on the Polymatter YouTube channel. China is facing serious issues, and while it’s meteoric rise to major world power status is concerning, it hardly enjoys economic hegemony on the world stage. 
 

 

Now do the contemporary nation-state of Israel.

[pawnman]

2 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

Cringe and blue-pilled. Desk jokey cope.

Settle down, Alex, or we'll have to call the nurse to give you another sedative.

You're like my grandpa trying to use internet slang.

[Guest]

Just now, pawnman said:

Settle down, Alex, or we'll have to call the nurse to give you another sedative.

You're like my grandpa trying to use internet slang.

What's your view on tranny acceptance in our military and governments?

[pawnman]

Just now, dogfish78 said:

What's your view on tranny acceptance in our military and governments?

What the hell does that have to do with Covid?

@Guardian, remind me again about undermining points using cheap talking points...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, pawnman said:

What the hell does that have to do with Covid?

@Guardian, remind me again about undermining points using cheap talking points...

Because it's a topic highlighting the blind faith you put into the (in your mind, infallible) federal government. Should we allow, or even respect, trannies in the military and governments?

In my line of thinking, if the Assistant Secretary for Health for the US's HHS (appointed by POTUS/confirmed by Senate) can't understand he's a man and will never be woman, why should I accept the federal government's "science" and passport schemes?

[pawnman]

1 minute ago, dogfish78 said:

Because it's a topic highlighting the blind faith you put into the (in your mind, infallible) federal government. Should we allow, or even respect, trannies in the military and governments?

In my line of thinking, if the Assistant Secretary for Health for the US's HHS (appointed by POTUS/confirmed by Senate) can't understand he's a man and will never be woman, why should I accept the federal government's "science" and passport schemes?

Ah...so, when the FDA approves it, you still won't take it? 

Anywhere else you have an utter mistrust of government? Do you disregard FAA regulations because you don't trust the federal government to oversee aviation? Do you "do your own research" on all the food items you buy, or do your trust the FDAs food inspection process?  

[Guardian]

Wow...telling me my "underhanded digs" make my points less valid, followed by insulting my masculinity. 
Talk about undermining your own points, asshole. 

Haha. That’s a giant assumption for what I was meaning on your part. I actually looked at your name in light of your sarcastic ways and wondered if it was just a name or if it was a name attached to your gender/sex.

That’s funny that you assumed the intent of my statement. I wasn’t actually drawing any conclusions on your gender because you were being emotional, mis quoting people and now making assumptions for what others meant. But I can see how people might draw that conclusion now that you brought it up. Pretty funny I must admit. Good one.

[Guardian]

What the hell does that have to do with Covid?
[mention=77584]Guardian[/mention], remind me again about undermining points using cheap talking points...

Not sure what you are asking. Please reform your question.

[Guardian]

I hereby submit my formal declaration for [mention=77584]Guardian[/mention] to be nominated as having submitted the most based post ever.

Not even sure what based means to know if this is good or bad…..