COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[gearhog]

From this morning’s email from the US Department of Veterans Affairs. LOL, so ridiculous considering the leading comorbidities form “Covid deaths” are heart disease, obesity, and diabetes.

Edited September 2, 2021 by torqued

[TheNewGazmo]

I, too, was ordered by my commander to get the shot on the 17th. He asked if I was going to fight it or ask for a religious exemption. He said he did not know what the penalties were for refusing. I was not wearing a mask while he was telling me this. He was not wearing a mask while telling me this. We both know this is a complete joke. He said he hated that he had to tell me this.
Does anyone know what the penalties are?
Would it be silly to request a written order?
I said I would only do it if I was directly ordered.

Penalty for refusing a direct order? Ummmm.... Article 15 and dishonorable discharge? Not sure if there would be jail time involved, but I am sure the sky is the limit to the insanity.

[bfargin]

Well, it sounds like you were directly ordered, so according to what you said "I said I would only do it if I was directly ordered.", it's now time to get the shot. If you're worried about the efficacy of the relatively new type of vaccine technology you could get the Jansen/J&J (old school vaccine).

[TheNewGazmo]

Well, it sounds like you were directly ordered, so according to what you said "I said I would only do it if I was directly ordered.", it's now time to get the shot. If you're worried about the efficacy of the relatively new type of vaccine technology you could get the Jansen/J&J (old school vaccine).

And there lies the out to a lot of peoples concerns about the mRNA vaccines. Do a search for pharmacies in your area that carry the J&J around you and get one of those. Supposedly not as effective, but definitely more effective than no vaccine at all.

[DirkDiggler]

4 hours ago, BrightNeptune said:

I, too, was ordered by my commander to get the shot on the 17th. He asked if I was going to fight it or ask for a religious exemption. He said he did not know what the penalties were for refusing. I was not wearing a mask while he was telling me this. He was not wearing a mask while telling me this. We both know this is a complete joke. He said he hated that he had to tell me this.

Does anyone know what the penalties are?

Would it be silly to request a written order?

I said I would only do it if I was directly ordered.

The fact that you and your commander think this COVID vaccination order is a complete joke is irrelevant.  You've already been given a direct, lawful order by the SECDEF (MFR which was in writing) that all DoD personnel will get the COVID vaccination.  Asking for a written order from your direct CC will not alter the above fact.  Your choices are:

1. Get the vaccine.

2. Refuse a direct order and open yourself up to NJP in the form of I'd guess at least an LOR or Article 15, eventually leading to a discharge from the service.

3. Claim a religious exemption (honestly don't know the process for this or how it works) and see if it's approved.  If not, you're back to options 1&2.

4. Separate from the military.  Understand that even if this is an option for you and you choose it your commander can and probably will still have to give you NJP while you're in the process of separating.

[FLEA]

8 minutes ago, BrightNeptune said:

I was never going to volunteer for it. I'm ordered to do it, so I will do it at the latest date possible. 

As far as I know, I do not get a choice on vaccine type. 

Next up is for the boosters to be mandatory.

You do get a choice. The way the guidance reads is that you are required to have the vaccine because at least one option is FDA approved and that option is available to you. However if you get any other option that's under EUA, then you meet the intent. 

[Prozac]

35 minutes ago, BrightNeptune said:

The base is out of shots. New stock comes in in a couple weeks. I was told it was only one type. I am required to get that.

Any reason you can’t get one on the economy? Stationed overseas?

[FUSEPLUG]

10 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Any reason you can’t get one on the economy? Stationed overseas?

It bought him two more weeks?

[TheNewGazmo]

The base is out of shots. New stock comes in in a couple weeks. I was told it was only one type. I am required to get that.

Can't go to Walgreens or CVS with your ID card? I did with TRS.

[Danger41]

We were told that you would be subject to Article 92 of the UCMJ (Failure to obey order or regulation).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/892

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, TheNewGazmo said:

3 hours ago, BrightNeptune said:

The base is out of shots. New stock comes in in a couple weeks. I was told it was only one type. I am required to get that.

Can't go to Walgreens or CVS with your ID card? I did with TRS.

You can here at least.  

[Kenny Powers]

What I don't understand is how I've traveled the US at least twice per month, never quarantined or forced to work from home, for the past 18 months during COVID, been exposed to it six times and had seven test (the first time I decided to get tested twice), have been sick twice during the same 18 months with something other than COVID (negative COVID test - thanks kids), my entire family has been tested four times and never had it, yet it's so dangerous to me that I must get the vaccine.

Not being a jerk and I'm not an anti-vaxer, just difficult for someone with my experience to understand how this vaccine is going to protect me or protect anyone else from me.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Kenny Powers

[TheNewGazmo]

What I don't understand is how I've traveled the US at least twice per month, never quarantined or forced to work from home, for the past 18 months during COVID, been exposed to it six times and had seven test (the first time I decided to get tested twice), have been sick twice during the same 18 months with something other than COVID (negative COVID test - thanks kids), my entire family has been tested four times and never had it, yet it's so dangerous.
Not being a jerk and I'm not an anti-vaxer, just difficult for someone with my experience to understand how this vaccine is going to protect me or protect anyone else from me.
 

Have you recently gotten your MMR2 series (last 8-9 years)?

[Kenny Powers]

7 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

36 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

What I don't understand is how I've traveled the US at least twice per month, never quarantined or forced to work from home, for the past 18 months during COVID, been exposed to it six times and had seven test (the first time I decided to get tested twice), have been sick twice during the same 18 months with something other than COVID (negative COVID test - thanks kids), my entire family has been tested four times and never had it, yet it's so dangerous.
Not being a jerk and I'm not an anti-vaxer, just difficult for someone with my experience to understand how this vaccine is going to protect me or protect anyone else from me.
 

Have you recently gotten your MMR2 series (last 8-9 years)?

Answering a question with a question, good tactic.

[gearhog]

US CDC Study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association last night:

83.3% of the US population had protection from SARS-CoV-2 by way of injection and natural exposure antibodies.

IN MAY 2021.

Unbelievable. Our response is more about leverage than threat.

Link to the study:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2784013

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9952555/CDC-study-estimates-80-Americans-protected-COVID-19.html

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by torqued

[brabus]

@BrightNeptune Another option, if you have COVID antibodies from a previous infection, is request a vaccine exemption IAW AFI 48-110 (look at section 2.6). There’s also a current lawsuit against DOD for mandating vaccines for people with natural immunity. No idea if either of those will be successful, but it’s another avenue to at least try…if you’ve been previously infected. 

[gearhog]

Pfizer CEO doubling down:

Vaccinations and Boosters aren't good enough.

Non-hospitalized low risk adults also need Pfizer's new and improved oral medication.

What more does it take for people to understand what is obviously happening? Snap out of it, FFS.

The Press Release: https://t.co/su5VtfbWPX?amp=1

The CEO:

Edited September 3, 2021 by torqued

[glockenspiel]

2 hours ago, torqued said:

Pfizer CEO doubling down:

Vaccinations and Boosters aren't good enough.

Non-hospitalized low risk adults also need Pfizer's new and improved oral medication.

What more does it take for people to understand what is obviously happening? Snap out of it, FFS.

The Press Release: https://t.co/su5VtfbWPX?amp=1

The CEO:

Stop being so conspiratorial and anti-science, everyone knows big pharma has our best interest in mind…

Hail Fauci, praise Pfizer, and help us @pawnman! Thank God they have come to rescue us from us.

 

edit: added authoritarian representative @pawnman

Edited September 3, 2021 by glockenspiel
Added pawnman

[BashiChuni]

It’s only two weeks 

[Scooter14]

I have no clue if I've had it or not. I've never been tested and I haven't been sick in a long time beyond occasional allergies. 
I've just lived my life as if this stupid this wouldn't harm me, as "the science" shows, and I've been fine. I have not lived in fear. 
I kind of understood that the vaccine might be worth it when we were told the vaccinated were fully protected, could not get the virus, could not spread the virus, and did not have to wear masks. None of those were ever true and lead me to believe that getting it is pointless.

Now it's just a matter of "it reduces how sick you will get" by some unknown amount.

Seems pointless to me.

It’s an unknown amount sure, but that number seems significant.

My RN wife sent me this from a hospital in Eastern Maine…I wish more hospitals provided this data. I also wish they included “previously infected” with the hospitalization data, but for now this is what they have.



Also…looks like there’s a lot of unvaccinated “young and healthy” people on ventilators in Idaho unfortunately…and triage decisions may be close at hand sadly.

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-idaho-09941b507483a5c7b0183dcbf03a8254

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

@BrightNeptune Another option, if you have COVID antibodies from a previous infection, is request a vaccine exemption IAW AFI 48-110 (look at section 2.6). There’s also a current lawsuit against DOD for mandating vaccines for people with natural immunity. No idea if either of those will be successful, but it’s another avenue to at least try…if you’ve been previously infected. 

I've seen this before. There is an established precedent that the DoD can only order a medical procedure if there is a medical necessity. If you are immune there is no neccesity. In other words, in medical ethics it generally advised not to change something on the body unless there is a clear reason to. It's the same ethics case that requires sterilization procedures to follow consultations and stuff. 

[TheNewGazmo]

Answering a question with a question, good tactic.

I'm not sure why you can't answer the question. My point is, if you've done your research, people who have gotten the MMR2 vaccination series have some immunity against covid. My point being if you've received your mmr2 vaccinations in the military over the last decade this may have helped you not get covid even if you're not covid vax'd.

[FLEA]

36 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

10 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

Answering a question with a question, good tactic.

I'm not sure why you can't answer the question. My point is, if you've done your research, people who have gotten the MMR2 vaccination series have some immunity against covid. My point being if you've received your mmr2 vaccinations in the military over the last decade this may have helped you not get covid even if you're not covid vax'd.

The probability of actually getting COVID is also already very low. I posted a calculator on here some time ago, but even unvaccinated your probability in the military was only 17% over 3 years. Let me see if I can find it again. 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, BrightNeptune said:

I have no clue if I've had it or not. I've never been tested and I haven't been sick in a long time beyond occasional allergies. 

I've just lived my life as if this stupid this wouldn't harm me, as "the science" shows, and I've been fine. I have not lived in fear. 

I kind of understood that the vaccine might be worth it when we were told the vaccinated were fully protected, could not get the virus, could not spread the virus, and did not have to wear masks. None of those were ever true and lead me to believe that getting it is pointless. Now it's just a matter of "it reduces how sick you will get" by some unknown amount. Seems pointless to me.

I like to laugh at the people that rushed to the front of the line to get this thing when it made them better than everyone else. They could proudly show their vax selfie, vax card, and parade around with no mask. Now that is gone. Sad.

To those arguing that not getting it is disobeying a direct order and should result in an article 15, court martial, and dishonorable discharge: my commander was not wearing a mask while telling me to get the vaccine. He disobeyed a direct order. He obviously should be subject to court martial and dishonorably discharged. Right? I should report him to his commander immediately, right? That's what you all do every time you see someone disobeying a direct order, right?

That's what happened to that Marine...so, pretty much, yeah.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

Stop being so conspiratorial and anti-science, everyone knows big pharma has our best interest in mind…

Hail Fauci, praise Pfizer, and help us @pawnman! Thank God they have come to rescue us from us.

 

edit: added authoritarian representative @pawnman

Appreciate the recognition. Happy to help.

Wouldn't it be a much better military if no one had to listen to orders from their leadership? Morale would be through the roof!

"Nah, I'm not going on that deployment"

"I don't want to take the PT yest anymore, so I stopped listening to the AFI"

"These sweatpants are way more comfortable than my uniform. The commander tried to order me to wear a uniform, but screw that guy...probably a clueless boomer"