COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

@BrightNeptune Another option, if you have COVID antibodies from a previous infection, is request a vaccine exemption IAW AFI 48-110 (look at section 2.6). There’s also a current lawsuit against DOD for mandating vaccines for people with natural immunity. No idea if either of those will be successful, but it’s another avenue to at least try…if you’ve been previously infected. 

I've seen this before. There is an established precedent that the DoD can only order a medical procedure if there is a medical necessity. If you are immune there is no neccesity. In other words, in medical ethics it generally advised not to change something on the body unless there is a clear reason to. It's the same ethics case that requires sterilization procedures to follow consultations and stuff. 

[TheNewGazmo]

Answering a question with a question, good tactic.

I'm not sure why you can't answer the question. My point is, if you've done your research, people who have gotten the MMR2 vaccination series have some immunity against covid. My point being if you've received your mmr2 vaccinations in the military over the last decade this may have helped you not get covid even if you're not covid vax'd.

[FLEA]

36 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

10 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

Answering a question with a question, good tactic.

I'm not sure why you can't answer the question. My point is, if you've done your research, people who have gotten the MMR2 vaccination series have some immunity against covid. My point being if you've received your mmr2 vaccinations in the military over the last decade this may have helped you not get covid even if you're not covid vax'd.

The probability of actually getting COVID is also already very low. I posted a calculator on here some time ago, but even unvaccinated your probability in the military was only 17% over 3 years. Let me see if I can find it again. 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, BrightNeptune said:

I have no clue if I've had it or not. I've never been tested and I haven't been sick in a long time beyond occasional allergies. 

I've just lived my life as if this stupid this wouldn't harm me, as "the science" shows, and I've been fine. I have not lived in fear. 

I kind of understood that the vaccine might be worth it when we were told the vaccinated were fully protected, could not get the virus, could not spread the virus, and did not have to wear masks. None of those were ever true and lead me to believe that getting it is pointless. Now it's just a matter of "it reduces how sick you will get" by some unknown amount. Seems pointless to me.

I like to laugh at the people that rushed to the front of the line to get this thing when it made them better than everyone else. They could proudly show their vax selfie, vax card, and parade around with no mask. Now that is gone. Sad.

To those arguing that not getting it is disobeying a direct order and should result in an article 15, court martial, and dishonorable discharge: my commander was not wearing a mask while telling me to get the vaccine. He disobeyed a direct order. He obviously should be subject to court martial and dishonorably discharged. Right? I should report him to his commander immediately, right? That's what you all do every time you see someone disobeying a direct order, right?

That's what happened to that Marine...so, pretty much, yeah.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

Stop being so conspiratorial and anti-science, everyone knows big pharma has our best interest in mind…

Hail Fauci, praise Pfizer, and help us @pawnman! Thank God they have come to rescue us from us.

 

edit: added authoritarian representative @pawnman

Appreciate the recognition. Happy to help.

Wouldn't it be a much better military if no one had to listen to orders from their leadership? Morale would be through the roof!

"Nah, I'm not going on that deployment"

"I don't want to take the PT yest anymore, so I stopped listening to the AFI"

"These sweatpants are way more comfortable than my uniform. The commander tried to order me to wear a uniform, but screw that guy...probably a clueless boomer"

[gearhog]

12 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Appreciate the recognition. Happy to help.

Wouldn't it be a much better military (society) if no one had to listen to orders from their leadership (government)? Morale would be through the roof!

"Nah, I'm not going on that deployment (to undergo state required medical procedures)."

"I don't want to take the PT (COVID) test anymore, so I stopped listening to the AFI (unelected officials)"

"These sweatpants (These Freedoms) are way more comfortable than my uniform (authoritarianism). The commander tried to order me to wear a uniform (sacrifice my freedoms), but screw that guy...probably a clueless boomer"

Just a friendly reminder that this issue is larger than the military.

[Prozac]

13 minutes ago, torqued said:

Just a friendly reminder that this issue is larger than the military.

Yep. We’d be much better off if no one let the gub’mint influence their decisions. Stop signs? Ha! No one’s gonna stop my liberty! Speed limits? Fuck that. There should be no limits on MY freedom motherfuckers! DUIs? This is the US of A goddamnit! If red blooded freedom lovers can’t drink and drive here, where can they? We should be setting the example for the rest of the free world.
 

Somewhere there’s a line between shitting on your freedoms and common sense rules and laws. 

[brabus]

@BrightNeptune I hear you, just saying you could go get an antibody test, and if that pops positive, now you have another avenue to pursue against a mandatory vaccine, from a regulation/legal perspective. 

@Scooter14 Keep seeing these infographics, but an incredibly important point they conveniently leave out is how many of the unvaccinated with COVID in the hospitals have 1+ underlying medical condition (regardless of age)? Answer: the national average is 95% (CDC). If someone has an underlying condition, they should probably get the vaccine, as the combo risk of COVID and med condition may be higher than the unknown longterm effects of the vaccine. These infographics are misleading because they imply all unvaccinated people are part of this hospitalization problem, when in fact the healthy/low-risk people are statistically NOT involved. 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

2 hours ago, BrightNeptune said:

I have no clue if I've had it or not. I've never been tested and I haven't been sick in a long time beyond occasional allergies. 

I've just lived my life as if this stupid this wouldn't harm me, as "the science" shows, and I've been fine. I have not lived in fear. 

I kind of understood that the vaccine might be worth it when we were told the vaccinated were fully protected, could not get the virus, could not spread the virus, and did not have to wear masks. None of those were ever true and lead me to believe that getting it is pointless. Now it's just a matter of "it reduces how sick you will get" by some unknown amount. Seems pointless to me.

I like to laugh at the people that rushed to the front of the line to get this thing when it made them better than everyone else. They could proudly show their vax selfie, vax card, and parade around with no mask. Now that is gone. Sad.

To those arguing that not getting it is disobeying a direct order and should result in an article 15, court martial, and dishonorable discharge: my commander was not wearing a mask while telling me to get the vaccine. He disobeyed a direct order. He obviously should be subject to court martial and dishonorably discharged. Right? I should report him to his commander immediately, right? That's what you all do every time you see someone disobeying a direct order, right?

I see where you’re coming from, but I personally took the more altruistic route and got the vaccine so I would be less likely to spread it to other more at risk people, like my 1 year old. Yeah I could still get it, yeah I could still spread it, but it makes sense that I’m spreading it less if I’m not coughing and sneezing at home. 
 

I also got the HPV vaccine as soon as it came out for the same reason; even though I don’t have a cervix, I don’t want to spread the virus to those who do. Or I could just have sex with men exclusively too, but that gets boring after a while, know what I mean?

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Yep. We’d be much better off if no one let the gub’mint influence their decisions. Stop signs? Ha! No one’s gonna stop my liberty! Speed limits? Fuck that. There should be no limits on MY freedom motherfuckers! DUIs? This is the US of A goddamnit! If red blooded freedom lovers can’t drink and drive here, where can they? We should be setting the example for the rest of the free world.
 

Somewhere there’s a line between shitting on your freedoms and common sense rules and laws. 

Absolutely no one here has said any of the things you're falsely attributing to my position or anyone else's who thinks our response to COVID is going way too far.

We can't have a civil discussion on the singular issue at hand without one side of the argument chiming in with "Whataboutisms", hyperbole, and hysterics (Fuck, motherfuckers, goddamnit, etc.) Can you not defend your position on COVID without relying on unrelated and irrelevant arguments?

We've just established 83.3% of our population has COVID antibodies as of 4 months ago (while the herd immunity threshold is widely regarded at an "unachievable" 60-70%), pharmaceutical companies are applying pressure for endless boosters and now pills, and COVID passports are already in the United States.

The only difference between us is where we drawn the line of "common sense". It is vastly apparent to me that we've crossed the definition of it, but you're unwilling to specify where you draw the line. I believe it is more important to you to defend the side you've chosen than to admit that people will take from you until say "That's enough."

Where was your alarmism in 2018?

source: https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

Edited September 3, 2021 by torqued

[glockenspiel]

21 minutes ago, torqued said:

Absolutely no one here has said of the things you're attributing to my position or anyone else who thinks our response to COVID is going way to far.

We can't have a civil discussion on the singular issue at hand without one side of the argument chiming in with "Whataboutisms", hyperbole, and hysterics (, motherers, goddamnit, etc.) Can you not defend your position on COVID without relying on unrelated and irrelevant arguments?

We've just established 83.3% of our population has COVID antibodies as of 4 months ago, pharmaceutical companies are applying pressure for endless boosters and now pills, and COVID passports are already in the United States.

The only difference between us is where we drawn the line of "common sense". It is vastly apparent to me that we've crossed the definition of it, but you're unwilling to specify where you draw the line. I believe it is more important to you to defend the side you've chosen than to admit that people will take from you until say "That's enough."

Everyone knows that because you are against this particular government vaccine mandate therefore you are against all government mandates therefore you are against stop signs and therefore are against wearing your uniform and therefore you are against PT tests. Also you are for drunk driving— how do you sleep at night? (Like how I connected the dots there?) 

So sit down, shut up and hand over your freedom to choose what you put in your body like a good boy. Happy Friday Mothaa
 

Edited September 3, 2021 by glockenspiel
Spelling

[Loach]

Let me throw this into the mix:  in order to work in close proximity to our new “guests”, we are required to be fit tested for and wear N95 masks b/c many of our guests are carriers of Tuberculosis.  If we all have cloth and paper masks already that protect us from COVID-19, why do we need N95s to protect us from TB?  Shouldn’t my cloth mask be as effective at stopping TB bacterial droplets and aerosols as it is in stopping viral droplets and aerosols?  Or is the whole cloth mask/Chinese made paper mask to slow or stop Covid a bunch of crap?  I wore (and still wear) my mask when required but believe it is not doing me or any of us a whole lot of good, other than to make us “feel good”.  Feelings are so important.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Loach

[gearhog]

12 minutes ago, glockenspiel said:

Everyone knows that because you are against this particular government vaccine mandate therefore you are against all government mandates therefore you are against stop signs and therefore are against wearing your uniform and therefore you are against PT tests. Also you are for drunk driving— how do you sleep at night? (Like how I connected the dots there?) 

So sit down, shut up and hand over your freedom to choose what you put in your body like a good boy. Happy Friday Mothaa
 

 

11 minutes ago, Loach said:

Let me throw this into the mix:  in order to work in close proximity to our new “guests”, we are required to be fit tested for and wear N95 masks b/c many of our guests are carriers of Tuberculosis.  If we all have cloth and paper masks already that protect us from COVID-19, why do we need N95s to protect us from TB?  Shouldn’t my cloth mask be as effective at stopping TB bacterial droplets and aerosols as it is in stopping viral droplets and aerosols?  Or is the whole cloth mask/Chinese made paper mask to slow or stop Covid a bunch of crap?  I wore (and still wear) my mask when required but believe it is not doing me or any of us a whole lot of good, other than to make us “feel good”.  Feelings are so important.

I'm all out of upvotes today, fellas, but... Yes.

[hockeydork]

3 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

 

It’s an unknown amount sure, but that number seems significant.

My RN wife sent me this from a hospital in Eastern Maine…I wish more hospitals provided this data. I also wish they included “previously infected” with the hospitalization data, but for now this is what they have.



Also…looks like there’s a lot of unvaccinated “young and healthy” people on ventilators in Idaho unfortunately…and triage decisions may be close at hand sadly.

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-idaho-09941b507483a5c7b0183dcbf03a8254


 

 

Agree with brabus age chart and /or underlying conditions would give more context. I don't think it will matter tho, there is just a portion of the population that does not what the shot and wants to roll the dice. Some people want to roll the dice and not wear a helmet on a bike or a seatbelt. You gotta let them do them at some point. If their brains end up all over the highway, you can't feel bad about it, that's what they chose.

 

Torqued, while I disagree with a lot of what he says, does bring a valid concern that even with an effective shot...drug companies are maybe going to try and milk it? Me thinks the FAA and the insurance companies are going to be all over that like a hawk tho. Insurance companies don't like paying for stuff unless it's actually effective/needed. 

[Guardian]

and got the vaccine so I would be less likely to spread it to other more at risk people, like my 1 year old.

Wait a second. I thought you were more likely to spread it if vaccinated because you can still be a carrier but not show symptoms hence a false sense of security. Not stirring the pot. I just legitimately thought that was the case.

[Prozac]

34 minutes ago, torqued said:

Absolutely no one here has said any of the things you're falsely attributing to my position or anyone else's who thinks our response to COVID is going way too far.

We can't have a civil discussion on the singular issue at hand without one side of the argument chiming in with "Whataboutisms", hyperbole, and hysterics (Fuck, motherfuckers, goddamnit, etc.) Can you not defend your position on COVID without relying on unrelated and irrelevant arguments?

We've just established 83.3% of our population has COVID antibodies as of 4 months ago, pharmaceutical companies are applying pressure for endless boosters and now pills, and COVID passports are already in the United States.

The only difference between us is where we drawn the line of "common sense". It is vastly apparent to me that we've crossed the definition of it, but you're unwilling to specify where you draw the line. I believe it is more important to you to defend the side you've chosen than to admit that people will take from you until say "That's enough."

Where was your alarmism in 2018?

source: https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/

My response was less directed at you personally and more at what seems to be a prevalent attitude on the right.  I didn't intend to attribute those positions to you personally, but I realize my post could be construed as such.  To be perfectly honest though, I meant it to be somewhat inflammatory. I think 600+K deaths makes masks and vaccinations a pretty small sacrifice for most of us.  I think many of you are drawing your "line in the sand" in a completely ridiculous place.  For me, that line is somewhere past mask mandates, but well before Australian style indefinite lockdown.

[Prozac]

7 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Wait a second. I thought you were more likely to spread it if vaccinated because you can still be a carrier but not show symptoms hence a false sense of security. Not stirring the pot. I just legitimately thought that was the case.

This is a result of people intentionally giving you a limited piece of the information.  Your concern might be a valid one if it existed in a vacuum. However you are 1: Far less likely to get COVID if you have been vaccinated and 2: If you do get a breakthrough infection, you are likely to have a much smaller viral load and will be contagious for a shorter period of time. 

[Guardian]

What I have read says the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting infected. That it just lessens the severity of the symptoms.

[glockenspiel]

24 minutes ago, hockeydork said:

Agree with brabus age chart and /or underlying conditions would give more context. I don't think it will matter tho, there is just a portion of the population that does not what the shot and wants to roll the dice. Some people want to roll the dice and not wear a helmet on a bike or a seatbelt. You gotta let them do them at some point. If their brains end up all over the highway, you can't feel bad about it, that's what they chose.

 

Torqued, while I disagree with a lot of what he says, does bring a valid concern that even with an effective shot...drug companies are maybe going to try and milk it? Me thinks the FAA and the insurance companies are going to be all over that like a hawk tho. Insurance companies don't like paying for stuff unless it's actually effective/needed. 

Person against a particular vaccine mandate ≈ person against seatbelts = brains on highway! Brilliant! 

[Prozac]

13 minutes ago, Guardian said:

What I have read says the vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting infected. That it just lessens the severity of the symptoms.

Not true.  While the vaccines are no longer considered to provide the near total immunity that seemed so promising during initial trials, they are still effective lowing your chances of contracting covid.  The talking point of right wing media has been that "well you CAN still get COVID after being vaccinated, so what's the point?" They are being disingenuous and fail to mention that while possible, breakthrough infections are still relative rare, even with Delta. So while you MAY be able to contract and spread the disease after being vaccinated, you are FAR les likely to than an unvaccinated person. 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/covid-variant-vaccine

While research suggests that COVID-19 vaccines are slightly less effective against the variants, the vaccines still appear to provide protection against severe COVID-19. For example:

• Early research from the U.K. suggests that, after full vaccination, the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is 88% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant. The vaccine is 96% effective at preventing severe disease with the COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant. The research also showed that the vaccine is 93% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 virus caused by the alpha variant.
• Early research from Canada suggests that, after one dose, the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine is 72% effective at preventing symptomatic COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant. One dose of the vaccine is also 96% effective at preventing severe disease with the COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant.
• The Janssen/Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine is 85% effective at preventing severe disease with the COVID-19 virus caused by the delta variant, according to data released by Johnson & Johnson.

[hockeydork]

17 minutes ago, glockenspiel said:

Person against a particular vaccine mandate ≈ person against seatbelts = brains on highway! Brilliant! 

Looks like you figured it out. Most people don't ever need their seat belt or a helmet....until their brains are on the highway. Most people wear seat belts and helmets because the large consensus is that the trade off/inconvenience is worth the gain if something goes wrong, knowing full well it likely won't. It isn't my job to feel bad if someone chooses to disregard that. 

Maybe most people don't need the shot....until their the one getting packed into a box because their lungs imploded. 

 

Not my job to feel sorry for the guy with his brains on the highway...or the Idaho Joe in the ICU who coughs himself to death. 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by hockeydork

[Scooter14]

Agree with brabus age chart and /or underlying conditions would give more context. I don't think it will matter tho, there is just a portion of the population that does not what the shot and wants to roll the dice. Some people want to roll the dice and not wear a helmet on a bike or a seatbelt. You gotta let them do them at some point. If their brains end up all over the highway, you can't feel bad about it, that's what they chose.
 
Torqued, while I disagree with a lot of what he says, does bring a valid concern that even with an effective shot...drug companies are maybe going to try and milk it? Me thinks the FAA and the insurance companies are going to be all over that like a hawk tho. Insurance companies don't like paying for stuff unless it's actually effective/needed. 

HD, the more data the better. They should have that as well. The more data there is, the better decisions people can make. It frustrates me that it comes out piecemeal.

Agree to an extent on the seatbelt analogy…but if you die on the roadway you never take up a hospital bed. I guess you could end up pretty much in the same ventilated state though.

There is increasing frustration in the healthcare community. The first wave it was mostly elderly people. This time around it’s younger people and they are hanging on longer, requiring a ton of care, you have to keep rolling them over to get air in their lungs…they are rolling out of the hospital with oxygen tanks to depend on for months.

The hospital staffs are tired and many of them see these hospitalizations and ICU visits as preventable with vaccinations the same way they see traumatic head injuries being preventable with helmets and seatbelts.

The vaccine, like the helmet or the seatbelt won’t save everyone every time or keep you out of the hospital every time. It’s not magic, sometimes it just doesn’t work, but it should help your odds.

To your point I think some are starting to not feel bad about it.

They are only human and they are exposed to this suffering day after day. As we all know here, that takes a toll. Many nurses and techs are leaving out of sheer exhaustion and those skills are hard to replace.

Oh and yeah, of course big pharma is gonna milk it. 100%.

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

My response was less directed at you personally and more at what seems to be a prevalent attitude on the right.  I didn't intend to attribute those positions to you personally, but I realize my post could be construed as such.  To be perfectly honest though, I meant it to be somewhat inflammatory. I think 600+K deaths makes masks and vaccinations a pretty small sacrifice for most of us.  I think many of you are drawing your "line in the sand" in a completely ridiculous place.  For me, that line is somewhere past mask mandates, but well before Australian style indefinite lockdown.

Brother, that's fair. I obviously don't agree and wish your line was closer to mine. That's not going to happen but I don't think it needs to today. I'm glad that you have a line in the sand, but yours is going to be surpassed as well as long as you don't move it. When it happens, you're also going to have to make a decision about whether to speak out against it. Tyranny and authoritarianism is by far the default and most common form of governance. It doesn't stop until a level of resistance is met that (hopefully) places you and I on the same side. I, of couse, want you to think the same as me. "This is too far". I'm confident I won't have to wait long for that to happen.

[VMFA187]

4 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

 

It’s an unknown amount sure, but that number seems significant.

My RN wife sent me this from a hospital in Eastern Maine…I wish more hospitals provided this data. I also wish they included “previously infected” with the hospitalization data, but for now this is what they have.



Also…looks like there’s a lot of unvaccinated “young and healthy” people on ventilators in Idaho unfortunately…and triage decisions may be close at hand sadly.

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-idaho-09941b507483a5c7b0183dcbf03a8254


 

 

Would be nice if they posted ages and comorbidities under each of those persons depicted. 

[glockenspiel]

1 hour ago, hockeydork said:

Looks like you figured it out. Most people don't ever need their seat belt or a helmet....until their brains are on the highway. Most people wear seat belts and helmets because the large consensus is that the trade off/inconvenience is worth the gain if something goes wrong, knowing full well it likely won't. It isn't my job to feel bad if someone chooses to disregard that. 

Maybe most people don't need the shot....until their the one getting packed into a box because their lungs imploded. 

 

Not my job to feel sorry for the guy with his brains on the highway...or the Idaho Joe in the ICU who coughs himself to death. 

 

 

Seat belt ≠ covid vaccine. See openvaers.

this is a thread about covid not seat belts.