COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[pawnman]

Just now, brabus said:

1. CDC study on MA 3-17 Jul:

- 74% of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons

- Among this group, 5 people were hospitalized. 4 were vaccinated, aged 20-70, and 2 of those had underlying med conditions. 1 was unvaccinated, age 50-59, and had multiple med conditions

- CDC: “Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people.”

2. Israeli study around the same time:

- Overview: study found natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization for the Delta variant of Coronavirus compared to Pfizer vaccine

- Model 1: risk of break through infection was 13.06 times higher among vaccinated patients (vs. reinfection of those with natural immunity) and they were 27 times more likely to be symptomatic than unvaccinated people who'd had COVID previously

- Model 2: risk of break through infection was 5.96 times higher among vaccinated patients (vs. reinfection of those with natural immunity) and they were 7.13 times more likely to be symptomatic than unvaccinated people who'd had COVID previously

(Model 1 was between people with same time of first event, and Model 2 was without syncing)

- Israeli Health Ministry (IHM): “With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already [naturally] infected with COVID. By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection”

- IHM: “effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine has fallen to 40%”

No spears, just data that many have not likely seen. The Israeli study did find a .53 times increase in protection if you had natural immunity + 1x shot. So, it’s not an anti-vax study, but does demonstrate the effectiveness of the vaccine and the expected results post-vaccine compared to natural immunity is substantially different than what the media, big pharm, and everyone who’s bought off on what they’re selling, is arguing.

 

So in the end, the Israeli data shows exactly what the Kentucky data shows...if you already had covid, you are still better off getting vaccinated that relying on natural immunity. 

Because the KY study only focused on people who had already recovered from covid once, in both vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

[FLEA]

1 minute ago, pawnman said:

Everyone in the US? Probably not. 

Everyone in the military? Absolutely. Because death isn't the only thing that will hurt our readiness. Being unable to get off a ship or aircraft in a host country due to Covid infections hurts us. Having people quarantined at home hurts us. Having people in the hospital hurts us, even if they later recover. 

We haven't had that issue yet though. I'm fact nearly every country we work routinely in has exceptions for movements of military forces under status agreements. We are still regularly PCSing people to Europe and Asia, conducting essential TDYs, and upholding deployment obligations. 

The US government hurt it's own position on a readiness argument in the fallout from Crozier and the continued narrative that our readiness hasn't suffered. 

[brabus]

16 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So in the end, the Israeli data shows exactly what the Kentucky data shows...if you already had covid, you are still better off getting vaccinated that relying on natural immunity. 

Because the KY study only focused on people who had already recovered from covid once, in both vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

Cool, you latched onto the .53x increase, while not addressing:

- the massive amounts higher probability of being reinfected with COVID/being symptomatic if you’re vaccinated vs. natural immunity

- Vaccination status has little effect on viral loads

And since you breezed my post in about 30” based on your reply time, you left out an important chunk of the study conclusion, which to highlight is ”natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization for the Delta variant of Coronavirus compared to Pfizer vaccine,” as well as failed to address how the vaccinated were the bigger problem in MA than the unvaccinated. 
 

This is not a pandemic of the unvaccinated (blanket statement) as the media is cramming down your throat, but you can argue those at high risk who aren’t vaccinated are causing issues. So, it’s a “pandemic of those people,” not one of low-risk, unvaccinated people. And if you already had COVID, you’re better off by a large margin than those who have been vaccinated and have not had COVID yet.
 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by brabus

[TheNewGazmo]

2 minutes ago, brabus said:

Cool, you latched onto the .53x increase, while not addressing:

- the massive amounts higher probability of being reinfected with COVID/being symptomatic if you’re vaccinated vs. natural immunity

- Vaccination status has little effect on viral loads

And since you breezed my post in about 30” based on your reply time, you left out an important chunk of the study conclusion, which to highlight is ”natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization for the Delta variant of Coronavirus compared to Pfizer vaccine,” as well as failed to address how the vaccinated were the bigger problem in MA than the unvaccinated. 
 

 

 

One thing that pointed toward a higher chance of infection/reinfection for the vaccinated, at least in this country, was the fact that the vaccinated, as a whole, have become complacent and have gone back to "normal life"; ie: going on vacations, hitting up bars, and participating in large crowd events while the unvaccinated still maintained some semblance of "social distancing" and mask wear.

In the end, the argument can still remain that the vaccine doesn't work as advertised.

[Blue]

13 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

COVID is over fuck can we move on with our lives 

Yeah, this.

@pawnman, you're probably the most prolific poster in this thread.

Why don't you step back and tell us a little about yourself, and why this is such an important topic to you.

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, Blue said:

Yeah, this.

@pawnman, you're probably the most prolific poster in this thread.

Why don't you step back and tell us a little about yourself, and why this is such an important topic to you.

That's fine. I got what I wanted. Y'all are either getting vaccinated or getting out.

[Guardian]

What is it that you wanted?

[pawnman]

Just now, Guardian said:

What is it that you wanted?

I want an end to the pandemic. Which means people taking the most basic of steps... like wearing a mask and getting vaccinated. 

But since "muh freedoms" seem to be more important than common decency and basic scientific literacy, I'll take the SECDEF ramming it down the throats of people who refuse to listen to reason. 

[HeloDude]

How dare people in the military support freedom!

[pawnman]

12 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

How dare people in the military support freedom!

Almost as strange as expecting them to care about their fellow Americans or follow orders. 

Wild stuff. 

[BashiChuni]

29 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I want an end to the pandemic. Which means people taking the most basic of steps... like wearing a mask and getting vaccinated. 

But since "muh freedoms" seem to be more important than common decency and basic scientific literacy, I'll take the SECDEF ramming it down the throats of people who refuse to listen to reason. 

Wearing a mask doesn’t work. Nothing works to stop the virus it’s gonna spread bro everyone is gonna get it. Get over yourself and get off your high horse it’s obnoxious. 
 

glad to see you hold your freedoms in such high regard! Common decency is to let Americans move on with their FUCKING LIVES without you, the CDC, and fauci dictating to us. Scared of the virus? Stay home. Stay safe. Mask up. It’s only two weeks. 

[BashiChuni]

“Follow the science”

[pawnman]

Take it up with SECDEF.

They've already kicked one person for refusing the vaccine and mask.  I'm pretty sure there's about to be a bunch more.

I'll be cheering each and every one.

[Guardian]

Why would you cheer each and everyone? You know that masks and vaccines wont stop the pandemic right?

[busdriver]

4 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I'll be cheering each and every one.

Take a look in the mirror.  Your self-righteous rage is creepy.

[HeloDude]

Care about your fellow Americans and follows orders!  Come on now…they did this without a problem in the 1940’s!

https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/japanese-relocation#background

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Take it up with SECDEF.

They've already kicked one person for refusing the vaccine and mask.  I'm pretty sure there's about to be a bunch more.

I'll be cheering each and every one.

 

We're required to wear masks? 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Wearing a mask doesn’t work. Nothing works to stop the virus it’s gonna spread bro everyone is gonna get it. Get over yourself and get off your high horse it’s obnoxious. 
 

glad to see you hold your freedoms in such high regard! Common decency is to let Americans move on with their ING LIVES without you, the CDC, and fauci dictating to us. Scared of the virus? Stay home. Stay safe. Mask up. It’s only two weeks. 

Legit question, I’m not trying to flame, I just don’t go online much, but when you say “Nothing works to stop the virus,” do you include vaccines in that statement? Because my understanding is that if 100% of the population were vaccinated, we’d have a lot fewer people being hospitalized right now—so few that it wouldn’t be any different than a regular season’s flu, thereby reducing the pandemic to just another regular illness. Am I wrong in thinking that way? 

[Guardian]

Yes

[busdriver]

35 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Yes

You're talking crazy.  If everyone where vaccinated, the case load would absolutely be reduced by a large amount.

It would not be reduced to zero.  But it would be a lot less.

 

Based on the single data point of 1918, I figure we've got another year of this.  So hold on to your butts everyone.

 

[BashiChuni]

[BashiChuni]

Just now, BashiChuni said:

Vaccines prevent severe illnesses and hospitalization. They don’t stop transmission 

[busdriver]

3 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Vaccines prevent severe illnesses and hospitalization. They don’t stop transmission 

Vaccines reduce the likelihood of catching a disease, and if you do, improve your chances.  If individuals are less likely to catch a disease, then they're less likely to spread it when viewed as a member of an aggregate pool.  Vaccines as a public health tool aren't really about you, they're about the whole community.

The part you highlighted talks about case and vaccination rates.  If a state has a current high case rate, it makes sense they would also have a high current vaccination rate.  People see others getting sick, then go get the shot.  I don't know which article you're referencing, but CNN has multiples talking about this.

[Guardian]

I didn’t think vaccines stopped you from catching it or being infected. Just the severity of symptoms or dealing with the infection.

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

Yeah states with the most vaccinations should have the most cases, since all the vaccinated folks are going to concerts without masks etc. The datapoint I want is hospitalizations versus vaccination rates.