COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Alpharatz]

They can bring 'em up to date on the bugshot at out processing...The airlines will get 'em anyway....As far as Guard pilots..that's what happened many moons ago when the sandbox fired up...No one cared..

[gearhog]

42 minutes ago, Alpharatz said:

They can bring 'em up to date on the bugshot at out processing...The airlines will get 'em anyway....As far as Guard pilots..that's what happened many moons ago when the sandbox fired up...No one cared..

Your personal opinion is duly noted, but I'm just asking if it's true.

[the g-man]

I keep seeing reports of significant numbers of USAF pilots and crew quitting over the vax, but can't find the source. There's likely not going to be an official statement regarding such.
Specifically, at Langley F-22  and Barksdale B-52 squadrons. I have my doubts, but I personally know 4-5 guard pilots who plan to make it known that they're retiring during tomorrow's drill.
True or False?
 

Joke is going to be on them now that any company over 100 employees has a vaccine mandate now.

It’s a really dumb hill to die on folks especially people with multiple pages of immunizations and a slew of them being for anthrax. Like really who has seen anthrax besides that Daschle mail thing in like 2002?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gearhog]

14 minutes ago, the g-man said:

Joke is going to be on them now that any company over 100 employees has a vaccine mandate now.

It’s a really dumb hill to die on folks especially people with multiple pages of immunizations and a slew of them being for anthrax. Like really who has seen anthrax besides that Daschle mail thing in like 2002?
 

Slow down, dude. If we can't even establish if this is true, you're just beating up a straw man.

[Prosuper]

When POTUS says "show some respect" it's too late and he has lost the country.

[Guest]

On 9/9/2021 at 12:31 AM, disgruntledemployee said:

Nah.  The "What else don't they know about it?" is not an argument, it feels more like an assumption generator that's feeding into a mass hysteria.

Here's an argument.  Covid can kill.  Facts.  1. Lots of people that got covid died.  Prove me wrong.  See, that's an argument.

And you did it as well, just tossed out some talking points on effects to reproductive health, something about lies, coercion, and missing data.  If this is 1st hand, I hope your cycle returns to normal soon.  If it's from a study of 10K women in Israel, cite your work.  Next, what data is missing?  Let us know and maybe someone can find it for you. 

Pfizer is no longer experimental, and wasn't experimental when shots were approved under Emergency Use.  The experiment parts were the 40K+ people taking shots during the phase trials.  Now if you feel apprehension for taking a new vaccine because there's a pandemic and wondering how they made it so quickly and so on, talk to a doc. 

Lastly, I did my research and got the shot, specifically choosing Pfizer/BioNTech as they were the pioneers of mRNA R&D.  I got my armor and feel I should be able to go about as I please.   

Covid kills fatasses and people with other comorbidities. It's like the Coulter effect with media reporting on crime. The longer it takes for the media to admit the apparent race of a criminal, the more likely the alleged criminal is black. The longer it take the media to admit any comorbidities of a covid death, the more likely the decedent was not very healthy to begin with. Turns out guzzling diet ™️ aspartame corn syrup for decades doesn't build an immune system.

The "doctors" (medical physicians) parrot what their drug representatives (a.k.a. lobbyists)->employer->corrupted state licensing board->corrupted CDC/FDA tell them. There are many physicians which are speaking out, but are censored/told to stfu or lose their job/license/life. REMEMBER: medical malpractice is the third leading cause of death in the United States.

The drug is experimental. The clinical trial doesn't end until 2023.

>inb4 omg @dogfish78 my wife's boyfriend's son got covid and he's healthy as can be and not a fatass! 

Reread my above post.

Edited September 10, 2021 by dogfish78

[DirkDiggler]

7 hours ago, torqued said:

I keep seeing reports of significant numbers of USAF pilots and crew quitting over the vax, but can't find the source. There's likely not going to be an official statement regarding such.

Specifically, at Langley F-22  and Barksdale B-52 squadrons. I have my doubts, but I personally know 4-5 guard pilots who plan to make it known that they're retiring during tomorrow's drill.

True or False?

 

In my personal corner of the AF (AFSOC) my squadron was sitting at over 85% vaccinated before it was mandatory.  I do not know nor have I heard of anyone that’s planning to get out or request an exemption.

  I’m currently in an AETC MC-J transition course; yesterday we got an email saying the 19th AF/CC has dictated that any student in formal training that plans on requesting a COVID exemption will immediately be placed in an administrative hold status (frozen in training) until the exemption is processed and approved/disapproved; it went on to give a gist of if disapproved and the individual still refuses the shot they’ll be administratively separated from the service.

  If this truly is your sword make sure you’re ready to fall on it…

[Negatory]

7 hours ago, torqued said:

I keep seeing reports of significant numbers of USAF pilots and crew quitting over the vax, but can't find the source. There's likely not going to be an official statement regarding such.

Specifically, at Langley F-22  and Barksdale B-52 squadrons. I have my doubts, but I personally know 4-5 guard pilots who plan to make it known that they're retiring during tomorrow's drill.

True or False?

 

https://realrawnews.com/2021/09/27-u-s-air-force-pilots-resign-over-covid-19-vaccination-mandate/

100% false. You guys are falling for the realrawnews story again. If you haven’t seen that website, its the one that will tell you all about how Hillary Clinton has been executed and Trump is running the secret real US government from Gitmo. Look, Bill Gates is on trial, day 4, by the military tribunal. YGBSM.

Every time a smart, educated pilot/military officer gets tricked into even halfway believing that type of news it reminds me that no one actually has the time to sort through not just bullshit, but intentional misinformation. Why should that platform be allowed to spread blatant lies to people like this forum? It makes everyone, and especially the conversation, significantly more stupid.

EDIT: This is the same site that lied and said that a Marine General told SECDEF and POTUS to fuck off when vaccine mandates for military came out. Turns out that Marine General got the vaccine in the first months it was available, of course, but people were still creaming themselves that it might have actually happened.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Negatory

[FLEA]

16 minutes ago, Negatory said:

https://realrawnews.com/2021/09/27-u-s-air-force-pilots-resign-over-covid-19-vaccination-mandate/

100% false. You guys are falling for the realrawnews story again. If you haven’t seen that website, its the one that will tell you all about how Hillary Clinton has been executed and Trump is running the secret real US government from Gitmo. Look, Bill Gates is on trial, day 4, by the military tribunal. YGBSM.

Every time a smart, educated pilot/military officer gets tricked into even halfway believing that type of news it reminds me that no one actually has the time to sort through not just bullshit, but intentional misinformation. Why should that platform be allowed to spread blatant lies to people like this forum? It makes everyone, and especially the conversation, significantly more stupid.

EDIT: This is the same site that lied and said that a Marine General told SECDEF and POTUS to fuck off when vaccine mandates for military came out. Turns out that Marine General got the vaccine in the first months it was available, of course, but people were still creaming themselves that it might have actually happened.

Dude cool it. Guy was very honestly inquiring about the veracity of the story which has been reported by multiple questionable outlets. It's quite clear he had his own suspicions already and was looking for more info, or as you so eloquently put it, was trying to sort through the bullshit. Noone fell for this story but you come off as a total ass hole with the tone of your post. 

[Negatory]

39 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Dude cool it. Guy was very honestly inquiring about the veracity of the story which has been reported by multiple questionable outlets. It's quite clear he had his own suspicions already and was looking for more info, or as you so eloquently put it, was trying to sort through the bullshit. Noone fell for this story but you come off as a total ass hole with the tone of your post. 

Copy shot. My anger is misplaced.

I am tired of misinformation permeating all aspects of everything. This was not a foul on @torquedwho literally asked 3 times if it was real.

My bad.

[gearhog]

How can anyone trust this guy? He is literally admitting he has no idea as to why, just that you should.

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1436366439901024262?s=20

[dream big]

21 hours ago, Prosuper said:

When POTUS says "show some respect" it's too late and he has lost the country.

He never had the country. 

[Guest]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:01 AM, torqued said:

I keep seeing reports of significant numbers of USAF pilots and crew quitting over the vax, but can't find the source. There's likely not going to be an official statement regarding such.

Specifically, at Langley F-22  and Barksdale B-52 squadrons. I have my doubts, but I personally know 4-5 guard pilots who plan to make it known that they're retiring during tomorrow's drill.

True or False?

 

Updates on the 4~5 Guard pilots saying they're retiring?

[gearhog]

5 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

Updates on the 4~5 Guard pilots saying they're retiring?

They are all hanging it up. To be fair, 3 of them were over 20 anyhow. The 4th has met his original commitment, but well short of 20, and 2 years into an airline career. Super well respected and a natural leader, so his departure is going to make some people stop and think. The 5th guy, I'm not sure of his circumstances.

Leadership shrugs. They're all Techs and AGRs and content to punch a clock if nothing else. The SQ had already become a revolving door for AD folks clamoring to get out and bum at the Guard, saying they're going to "make a career of it". They soon find out it's just Active Duty Light, so they quietly work to get their real job, then go non-current, and leave shortly thereafter.

So, the shot was just another drop in the bucket of grievances that was already full for most.

 

[Guardian]

Guessing the military at large isn’t going to care. Guessing downsizing is coming anyways to pay for current administration pet projects. The RPA community is feeling the pinch big time.

[gearhog]

For anyone who has been convinced that "The Vaccine is safer than COVID."

Researchers at University of California have found that teens are more likely to experience Cardiac Adverse Events (CAE or myocarditis) from the vaccine than they are to experience hospitalization from having COVID.

The research paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

Why? Why would the vaccine cause more problems in young men with no comorbidities than COVID does?

Our government says it doesn't and that it is completely safe? Who do you believe?

Why is the CDC providing lower estimates while real research presents significantly higher numbers?

"Our post-second-dose-vaccination rates of CAE among adolescent boys aged 12-15 was 162.2/million which exceeded the rates reported by the CDC[2,6] by 143-280% (2.4-3.8 times). Among boys age 16-17, our estimate was 94.0/million, 31.5-41% higher than the CDC estimate. For girls 12-15 years old, our rate was 13.0/million, which was 43-100% higher that the CDC’s estimate.[2,6] Among girls 16-17, our estimate was 13.4/million, which was 47-65% higher than the CDC’s estimate."

"Our report found post-vaccination CAE rates following dose two of 162.2 and 94.0/million for boys 12-15 and 16-17, respectively. For boys with no underlying health conditions, the chance of either CAE, or hospitalization for CAE, after their second dose of mRNA vaccination are considerably higher than their 120-day risk of COVID-19 hospitalization, even at times of peak disease prevalence. The long-term consequences of this vaccine-associated cardiac inflammation are not yet fully defined and should be studied. In lieu of pediatric vaccination mandates, the US may: 1) consider gathering data on previous infection in this age group and/or 2) follow the example of Germany,[31] Sweden [32], Norway [33] and the WHO[34] and hold off on definitively recommending vaccination of low-risk children against COVID-19, or 3) offer one dose to adolescents as the UK has just announced [35] while more information about risks, benefits, harms and alternative dosing or vaccination strategies are studied and considered."

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by torqued

[Negatory]

2 hours ago, torqued said:

For anyone who has been convinced that "The Vaccine is safer than COVID."

Researchers at University of California have found that teens are more likely to experience Cardiac Adverse Events (CAE or myocarditis) from the vaccine than they are to experience hospitalization from having COVID.

The research paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

Why? Why would the vaccine cause more problems in young men with no comorbidities than COVID does?

Our government says it doesn't and that it is completely safe? Who do you believe?

Why is the CDC providing lower estimates while real research presents significantly higher numbers?

"Our post-second-dose-vaccination rates of CAE among adolescent boys aged 12-15 was 162.2/million which exceeded the rates reported by the CDC[2,6] by 143-280% (2.4-3.8 times). Among boys age 16-17, our estimate was 94.0/million, 31.5-41% higher than the CDC estimate. For girls 12-15 years old, our rate was 13.0/million, which was 43-100% higher that the CDC’s estimate.[2,6] Among girls 16-17, our estimate was 13.4/million, which was 47-65% higher than the CDC’s estimate."

"Our report found post-vaccination CAE rates following dose two of 162.2 and 94.0/million for boys 12-15 and 16-17, respectively. For boys with no underlying health conditions, the chance of either CAE, or hospitalization for CAE, after their second dose of mRNA vaccination are considerably higher than their 120-day risk of COVID-19 hospitalization, even at times of peak disease prevalence. The long-term consequences of this vaccine-associated cardiac inflammation are not yet fully defined and should be studied. In lieu of pediatric vaccination mandates, the US may: 1) consider gathering data on previous infection in this age group and/or 2) follow the example of Germany,[31] Sweden [32], Norway [33] and the WHO[34] and hold off on definitively recommending vaccination of low-risk children against COVID-19, or 3) offer one dose to adolescents as the UK has just announced [35] while more information about risks, benefits, harms and alternative dosing or vaccination strategies are studied and considered."

 

 

 

This one was more fun than the last ones. Make sure to pass this message on to whoever sent you the study!

Did you know that teenage boys around the age of 15 actually normally have Cardiac Adverse Events (CAEs) at a rate of ~140/million without any shots whatsoever? I didn’t either, but it’s true. If you look at females age 13-15, they’re at just about 25/million (this is higher than the COVID study lol). That puts the study’s incidence rate at… just about normal. TLDR this study does not present any evidence that COVID vaccination has any effect on standard CAE rates for adolescents.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.116.005306

The authors of your quoted study never do what’s actually important: compare CAE rate of unvaccinated boys to CAE rates of those that got vaccines. Instead he compares potatoes to tomatoes and looks at CAE rates of boys with the vaccine compared to the chances they have a reported COVID hospitalization. Those logically are not an actual good scientific comparison.

If he actually wrote this study fairly, it would say “CAE rates of vaccinated boys aged 12-15 are roughly similar to the unvaccinated population.”

Here’s the graph from the study on baseline CAE rates:

Or, the top commenter on your linked study more eloquently said:

“Arola et al. show that the incidence of myocarditis is in the vicinity of 140 per year per million boys aged 15 (in girls, and other boys, the incidence is roughly an order of magnitude smaller). By neglecting the prior probability of myocarditis in all persons, not just those being vaccinated, the authors render their conclusions completely untenable. In other words, while the risk of hospitalization from COVID in boys is arguably smaller than the risk from myocarditis, there is no evidence that vaccination status affects the myocarditis risk.“

Edited September 12, 2021 by Negatory

[Negatory]

Now I will say that the CDCs analysis of VAERS shows that there may actually be an increased chance of myopericarditis for teenage boys. It looks like it might even be a real effect that should be looked into, and we should consider the risk.

But the point of your post was to question CDC integrity. The study you posted did not do anything to support your claim that the CDC is intentionally obscuring data.

[Negatory]

And here is an actually well conducted study that actually sets up a proper control:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

Preliminary analysis shows that myocarditis and swollen lymph nodes increase in the vaccinated group. But if you want to claim that, I assume you’ll also note:

“Vaccination was substantially protective against adverse events such as anemia, acute kidney injury, intracranial hemorrhage, and lymphopenia”

Now let’s continue this conversation using good data.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Negatory

[gearhog]

5 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Now I will say that the CDCs analysis of VAERS shows that there may actually be an increased chance of myopericarditis for teenage boys. It looks like it might even be a real effect that should be looked into, and we should consider the risk.

But the point of your post was to question CDC integrity. The study you posted did not do anything to support your claim that the CDC is intentionally obscuring data.

Your first response was a copy and paste of another comment stating that there is no evidence that the vaccine increases the risk of heart problems.

Then, your very next comment states that that there may actually be and increased chance of heart problems and that we should consider the risk.

Which is it?

Your responses immediately brought this quote to mind. Not accusing you of it, it's just amusing.

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed."

[TheNewGazmo]

And here is an actually well conducted study that actually sets up a proper control:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475
Preliminary analysis shows that myocarditis and swollen lymph nodes increase in the vaccinated group. But if you want to claim that, I assume you’ll also note:
“Vaccination was substantially protective against adverse events such as anemia, acute kidney injury, intracranial hemorrhage, and lymphopenia”
Now let’s continue this conversation using good data.

I definitely had a swollen lymphnode a week after my first pfizer shot. I could barely touch my right armpit. Hurt like a some-beach.

[gearhog]

3 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

I definitely had a swollen lymphnode a week after my first pfizer shot. I could barely touch my right armpit. Hurt like a some-beach.

That's a little disconcerting. Did you ever find out why? I recommend googling "swollen armpit lymphnodes" extensively to see what conditions could cause this. You know... conditions that might have developed after getting the vaccine. Purely coincidentally, of course.

[TheNewGazmo]

That's a little disconcerting. Did you ever find out why? I recommend googling "swollen armpit lymphnodes" extensively to see what conditions could cause this. You know... conditions that might have developed after getting the vaccine. Purely coincidentally, of course.

I did. Apparently it's "normal" and means the vaccine is "working". Haven't gotten my second shot yet. I was supposed to get it a week ago, but have been on the road with my airline job and have put it off a bit. I have been a little leary about the second since it is supposedly worse than the first one. Looks like the ANG deadline is 2 Dec to be fully vaccinated. What's creapy is that Walgreen's system updated ASIMS for me automatically. Didn't know they were linked somehow.

[Negatory]

22 minutes ago, torqued said:

Your first response was a copy and paste of another comment stating that there is no evidence that the vaccine increases the risk of heart problems.

Then, your very next comment states that that there may actually be and increased chance of heart problems and that we should consider the risk.

Which is it?

Your responses immediately brought this quote to mind. Not accusing you of it, it's just amusing.

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed."

My first response was 100% written by me. Show me anywhere on the internet it’s copied. Are you referencing the portion of the post that I clearly say is a quote?

There is no evidence presented in your non peer-reviewed, flawed study that the vaccine specifically causes increased CAEs in teen males. The purpose of my post was primarily to point out your issues with sources.

But because I actually like science, I looked into the actual hypothesis of whether or not CAEs increase with the vaccine compared to the unvaccinated (your study never looked at this). And I looked into whether vaccination is worse than a COVID infection. When I found that it may actually be true, I said so and cited an actually well conducted, peer-reviewed study.

And here’s the results for an actual study that compares effects of Covid infection to Covid vaccination:

You’ll note there is a significant increase of lymphadenopathy - or swollen lymph nodes. But you’ll also notice that every other deleterious effect is less prevalent in the vaccinated group.

And here’s the study showing COVID vaccine effects vs control, which is the uninflected population (again, you ignored it in the last one):

You’ll note that the increase myocarditis was 21 in the vaccinated group vs 6 in the control group. You’ll see multiple small statistics like this, including a significant reduction of kidney injury (20 vs 45), arthritis (64 vs 70), intracranial hemorrhage (13 v 30), and arrythmia (298 v 378). But I didn’t see your post about all of the unexpected benefits of the shot?

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by Negatory

[Negatory]

23 minutes ago, torqued said:

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed."

And your response, inability to address my thought out response, and ultimately you topping it off with this self righteous quote reminded me of an old favorite:

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.” 

See also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect