COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Sua Sponte]

24 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

Copy.  Like I said, I'm speculating but my guess is whatever discharge the military gives for this will not be a straight honorable discharge because of the nature (refusing a direct order) and to be quite honest the UCMJ is on their side.

  If you don't mind me asking, do you want to get out because of the mandatory COVID vaccine or did you want to get out anyway and this just presents an opportunity to do so? 

On the enlisted side if you get a General Under Honorable discharge during your first enlistment, you lose your G.I. Bill. Now sure how that would play out for officers?

[DirkDiggler]

9 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

On the enlisted side if you get a General Under Honorable discharge during your first enlistment, you lose your G.I. Bill. Now sure how that would play out for officers?

  As I understand it, you lose some of of it but can still retain some as well.  I only have second hand experience with this aspect of a General Under Honorable so I honestly don't know all the details.  BLUF is that there's definitely some penalties for not completing your enlistment. 

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, torqued said:

LOL. Now do this one:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/09/07/massachusetts-coronavirus-breakthrough-cases-jump-4415-last-week-more-than-600-fully-vaccinated-people-a-day/

and this one:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Perhaps try making an argument rather than just blasting out more links and expecting people to go on a scavenger hunt to figure out what your point is.

Are you actually arguing the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death?

And if you want anyone to take you seriously, can't just LOL away the fact that you were citing absolute death numbers without considering the denominators those numbers come from. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Pooter

[Pooter]

Hope everyone who choose to die on this vaccination hill gets some immense satisfaction out of sticking it to big blue. Because that's likely all you're getting.
 

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization.
 

The number of people who discovered their extremely sincerely held religious beliefs on stem cells just this past week is particularly rich. You'd think a supposedly principled person would think twice about faking a religious belief to justify their stubbornness, but I'm sure the crippling case of Dunning-Kruger prevents that level of introspection. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Pooter

[bfargin]

8 minutes ago, Pooter said:

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization.
 

Funny, I found the same to be true in the opposite direction.  

Quote with appropriate edits...

"The staunch vax mandate dudes I know are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization."

[busdriver]

8 minutes ago, Pooter said:

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, 

I bet you're fun to be around.

[Pooter]

17 minutes ago, bfargin said:

Funny, I found the same to be true in the opposite direction.  

Quote with appropriate edits...

"The staunch vax mandate dudes I know are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization."

I actually haven't encountered a single one of those people. Most of the rest of us aren't "staunch mandate" we just have a modicum of awareness about what we signed up for and aren't going to torpedo our job and reputation because we got a little too riled up over some podcasts. 

[bfargin]

I know we can all come across as condescending when we argue our point at times, but your posts about this topic make me think of Cartman.

 There's enough BS in the vaccine efforts (roll-out, news reporting on Covid, governmental communications, mandates, etc) to make anyway pause. Do I think the vaccine has been effective in reducing severe complications in many people, yes, do i think it should be mandated for any portion of the population, no.

[gearhog]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

Perhaps try making an argument rather than just blasting out more links and expecting people to go on a scavenger hunt to figure out what your point is.

Are you actually arguing the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death?

And if you want anyone to take you seriously, can't just LOL away the fact that you were citing absolute death numbers without considering the denominators those numbers come from. 

My argument has always been that the vaccine is not completely safe and that vaccine is not completely effective.

Evidence continues to leak through the massive propaganda wall that this vaccine is neither.

I LOL'd because it was obvious you don't understand the table. The denominator is already in the table. FIRST COLUMN. WTF? I continue to LOL because I can't believe I have to point this out

All Old People (>50) Delta COVID Deaths (Denominator) - 1644

Vaccinated (Numerator) - 1054

Unvaccinated (Numerator) - 437

You are trying to bury the evidence in "denominators of all old people deaths for all reasons" when the fact of the matter is the deaths in that table are being attributed to COVID. Yes, old people die of a lot of things. But these are all the deaths in the UK being attributed to COVID by a positive specimen test and after receiving a vaccine. If the people in your denominators were dying from other old people reasons, they wouldn't be recorded in the table. Why would any of them be recorded as dying of COVID if they are vaccinated, and at higher rates (in the same row) than unvaccinated? It is because the vaccine doesn't work as advertised?

Yes, I am arguing there is evidence to suggest the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death to the extent that it should be mandatory for everyone. Breakthrough infections. A outdated vaccine that was manufactured for the original genomic sequence and one that will continue to mutate even if 100% of the population receives this vaccine.

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

Hope everyone who choose to die on this vaccination hill gets some immense satisfaction out of sticking it to big blue. Because that's likely all you're getting.
 

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags

Somehow I get the impression no one in your SQ cares about your personal assessment of their character.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by torqued

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

Hope everyone who choose to die on this vaccination hill gets some immense satisfaction out of sticking it to big blue. Because that's likely all you're getting.
 

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization.
 

The number of people who discovered their extremely sincerely held religious beliefs on stem cells just this past week is particularly rich. You'd think a supposedly principled person would think twice about faking a religious belief to justify their stubbornness, but I'm sure the crippling case of Dunning-Kruger prevents that level of introspection. 

I'm hoping they get out. I've got a batch of solid cadets...cutting some officers who can't do basic statistics makes room for cadets who are motivated, vaccinated, and desperately want to be Air Force Lts.

[gearhog]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'm hoping they get out. I've got a batch of solid cadets...cutting some officers who can't do basic statistics makes room for cadets who are motivated, vaccinated, and desperately want to be Air Force Lts.

This is not related to this discussion at all, but I thought this story about a teacher indoctrinating his students and rewarding them for adopting his positions was interesting.

 

Edited September 14, 2021 by torqued

[FLEA]

Alright, lots of interest stuff coming through the book faces lately and I havent had a lot of time so I'll just throw it all down and people can make what they want of it. 

1.) It appears that not all Phizer vaccines are created equal. Only certain batch #'s fall under the full FDA approval of Comirnaty and it can be potentially an unlawful order to direct you to receive a different batch. This is likely because FDA approval doesn't just analyze the chemical composition of an ingredient but also the manufacturing processes and procedures. It is possible the FDA wasn't able to certify earlier batch numbers. 

2.) Current AFI guidance is superseded by the SECDEF memo however there is strong indication that receiving the mandatory vaccine creates a Line of Duty determination, forcing AF to compensate people for side effects. 

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

I'm hoping they get out. I've got a batch of solid cadets...cutting some officers who can't do basic statistics makes room for cadets who are motivated, vaccinated, and desperately want to be Air Force Lts.

So since you understand statistics so well what is the statistical probability (in a percentage form, or cases of 100K) of developing a long term side effect from the Phizer COVID-19 vaccine? Looking for the exact probability based on current evidence, not an intuition based assessment. 

[Lord Ratner]

8 hours ago, Pooter said:

Hope everyone who choose to die on this vaccination hill gets some immense satisfaction out of sticking it to big blue. Because that's likely all you're getting.
 

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization.
 

The number of people who discovered their extremely sincerely held religious beliefs on stem cells just this past week is particularly rich. You'd think a supposedly principled person would think twice about faking a religious belief to justify their stubbornness, but I'm sure the crippling case of Dunning-Kruger prevents that level of introspection. 

Your analysis is about as small as the people you must be friends with. I've noticed no correlation between shit bags and vaccine status. What I have noticed on both sides are people that you would never guess of having a position suddenly having one.

 

It's also hilarious hearing how many people are suddenly advanced medical professionals with nuanced perspective on the safety and efficacy of vaccines. Face it, you're pro vaccine because you were told to be. Just like me. Just like how you, I, and everyone else out there believes 95% of what we know because that's what we were told. It's a positive trait of the species to be able to transfer knowledge, but now that the knowledge transfer industry has accelerated to a pace we are completely unprepared for (thanks to internet and social media specifically), so all of the original gateways of information that for the most part kept everybody believing largely the same things (which were largely correct) are now defunct.

 

And the gasoline poured on this fire were the bureaucrats and politicians. They haven't changed, they have always lied to influence our behavior, but now their lies are exposed in a way they have never experienced. And regardless of what side you're on, people respond to lies in a pretty predictable way. They stop trusting you. Sure, if the lie was something that you were already positioned to believe, then you are more inclined to let the lie slide. Think Republicans with Trump and liberals with Fauci. But the distrust spreads.

 

So yeah, fall victim to all the human nature quirks and play directly into the hands of the politicians who are only interested in our money and our votes. If you disagree with me you're a shitbag, if you agree with me you're the enlightened. That should fix things.

 

Disclaimer: I am fully and voluntarily vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine.

[Shakermaker]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'm hoping they get out. I've got a batch of solid cadets...cutting some officers who can't do basic statistics makes room for cadets who are motivated, vaccinated, and desperately want to be Air Force Lts.

From everything I've seen, you will be one helluva squadron commander..

[Lord Ratner]

3 hours ago, torqued said:

My argument has always been that the vaccine is not completely safe and that vaccine is not completely effective.

Evidence continues to leak through the massive propaganda wall that this vaccine is neither.

I LOL'd because it was obvious you don't understand the table. The denominator is already in the table. FIRST COLUMN. WTF? I continue to LOL because I can't believe I have to point this out

All Old People (>50) Delta COVID Deaths (Denominator) - 1644

Vaccinated (Numerator) - 1054

Unvaccinated (Numerator) - 437

You are trying to bury the evidence in "denominators of all old people deaths for all reasons" when the fact of the matter is the deaths in that table are being attributed to COVID. Yes, old people die of a lot of things. But these are all the deaths in the UK being attributed to COVID by a positive specimen test and after receiving a vaccine. If the people in your denominators were dying from other old people reasons, they wouldn't be recorded in the table. Why would any of them be recorded as dying of COVID if they are vaccinated, and at higher rates (in the same row) than unvaccinated? It is because the vaccine doesn't work as advertised?

Yes, I am arguing there is evidence to suggest the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death to the extent that it should be mandatory for everyone. Breakthrough infections. A outdated vaccine that was manufactured for the original genomic sequence and one that will continue to mutate even if 100% of the population receives this vaccine.

Somehow I get the impression no one in your SQ cares about your personal assessment of their character.

 

Actually there is missing data there. I'm going to use extremes to make the point, but you'll almost certainly find that it applies here.

 

Those numbers don't show the cohorts of the overall population and vaccine status. So, simplified, 1500 deaths, 1000 vaccinated and 500 unvaccinated. But that's out of a population of 15000, where 1500 are unvaccinated and 13500 are vaccinated. 500/1500 = 33% mortality amongst the unvaccinated, 1000/13500 = 7% mortality amongst the vaccinated.

 

And the follow-up to that would be that if the entire cohort were  unvaccinated, you would have 5,000 deaths instead of 1500.

 

Again, the percentages are simplified and exaggerated, but I believe you will find they apply to the data set.

Edited September 14, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

s also hilarious hearing how many people are suddenly advanced medical professionals with nuanced perspective on the safety and efficacy of vaccines. Face it, you're pro vaccine because you were told to be. Just like me. Just like how you, I, and everyone else out there believes 95% of what we know because that's what we were told. It's a positive trait of the species to be able to transfer knowledge, but now that the knowledge transfer industry has accelerated to a pace we are completely unprepared for (thanks to internet and social media specifically), so all of the original gateways of information that for the most part kept everybody believing largely the same things (which were largely correct) are now defunct.

 

And the gasoline poured on this fire were the bureaucrats and politicians. They haven't changed, they have always lied to influence our behavior, but now their lies are exposed in a way they have never experienced. And regardless of what side you're on, people respond to lies in a pretty predictable way. They stop trusting you. Sure, if the lie was something that you were already positioned to believe, then you are more inclined to let the lie slide. Think Republicans with Trump and liberals with Fauci. But the distrust spreads.

 

So yeah, fall victim to all the human nature quirks and play directly into the hands of the politicians who are only interested in our money and our votes. If you disagree with me you're a shitbag, if you agree with me you're the enlightened. That should fix things.

 

Disclaimer: I am fully and voluntarily vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine.

Point taken on the numbers. I understand what you're saying and I do believe the vaccines are somewhat effective for many of the people, but I still believe the reported numbers themselves are ripe for manipulation. Even when I'm referencing them, I know you cannot remove all subjectivity within them.

With regard to trust, this is how it is violated:

Oregon reports COVID deaths as "probable" exposures, any deaths 60 days after hospitalization, or any death certificate diagnosis regardless of the date.

Doctors and Hospital "marketing" staff are manipulating numbers to scare people.

A large amount of hospitalizations are mild or asymptomatic.

You can't sue either a pharmaceutical company or the government for harm caused by a forced vaccine.

The CDC reported 83% of Americans already had COVID anti-bodies in May. Far above the herd immunity threshold. Why do they need the vaccine?

I can provide hundreds of other sources, but it boils down to exactly what you've said. Too many lies. The biggest conspiracy theory is that the government genuinely cares about your health. But they're not lying for lying's sake. These misrepresentations and justifications for everyone to be required the take vaccine leads in an obvious direction towards an obvious goal, and it is not the overall health and well being of people. Again, I am not in any way against someone making the choice for themselves to get injected with vaccine as long as it's a free choice.

Edited September 14, 2021 by torqued

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, Shakermaker said:

From everything I've seen, you will be one helluva squadron commander..

Thanks, I appreciate your faith in my leadership abilities. 

[Splash95]

18 hours ago, BrightNeptune said:

What are the details of that separation? 

Non-voluntary separation with the pay that goes with it? Honorable discharge? ADSCs removed?

Anecdotal, but I talked to an Army guy the other day who said 7 in his unit were quickly booted with general discharges for refusing the shot.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, torqued said:

This is not related to this discussion at all, but I thought this story about a teacher indoctrinating his students and rewarding them for adopting his positions was interesting.

 

Also unrelated: Why are public schools giving books to students about encouraging faggots to suck child penis as being okay?

 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, pawnman said:

So Bashi's public health advice is just spit into each other's mouths until everyone gets covid, everyone who dies is an acceptable loss?

Pretty arrogant.  But maybe it's that single-seat mentality. Fuck anyone who isn't you...you got yours, your own risk, everyone else just shouldn't be old and fat, it's their own fault.

Brilliant.

Navigator cope used: ad hominem.

Why: @pawnman is insecure.

[hockeydork]

1 hour ago, dogfish78 said:

Also unrelated: Why are public schools giving books to students about encouraging faggots to suck child penis as being okay?

 

I believe there are two books with the same title, and very different story lines. Likely an ordering mistake, and some mom blowing it way out of proportion. 

Are you like some Chinese guy half way across the world trying to incite division and fracture america? Just curious. 

 

If not, I'll take this "faggot" covering my ass any day over you dude. 

 

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, hockeydork said:

I believe there are two books with the same title, and very different story lines. Likely an ordering mistake, and some mom blowing it way out of proportion. 

Are you like some Chinese guy half way across the world trying to incite division and fracture america? Just curious. 

 

If not, I'll take this "faggot" covering my ass any day over you dude. 

 

 

You're defending homosexual child molestation books in public school? Dude what? & how does your (((TEDx))) talk relate to my post? Oh yeah, it doesn't. You're derailing the topic.

If anyone is the Chink shill, it's you. You try to slide on patriotic topics. Review my posts if you will. I have posted nothing but information that is conducive to discussion about desiring a cohesive and strong nation of our people by supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States of America. I call out you pussies and shills on this forum and watch you whine. I don't want to be your enemy, but I call it like it is, and always will do so. Our nation needs strong men, will you join us patriots? 

If I was a Chink, I'd be posting about useless topics to keep you all distracted like professional sports, Black Lives Matter, and pornography.

Remember how Hunter Biden's nudes (with some very uh... young looking women) and methamphetamine pipe photographs got leaked? No? It was probably memory-holed from you ever seeing it. Blackmail is used often, including by the CCP. They own the current administration.

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, dogfish78 said:

You're defending homosexual child molestation books in public school? Dude what? & how does your (((TEDx))) talk relate to my post? Oh yeah, it doesn't. You're derailing the topic.

If anyone is the Chink shill, it's you. You try to slide on patriotic topics. Review my posts if you will. I have posted nothing but information that is conducive to discussion about desiring a cohesive and strong nation of our people by supporting and defending the Constitution of the United States of America. I call out you pussies and shills on this forum and watch you whine. I don't want to be your enemy, but I call it like it is, and always will do so. Our nation needs strong men, will you join us patriots? 

If I was a Chink, I'd be posting about useless topics to keep you all distracted like professional sports, Black Lives Matter, and pornography.

Remember how Hunter Biden's nudes (with some very uh... young looking women) and methamphetamine pipe photographs got leaked? No? It was probably memory-holed from you ever seeing it. Blackmail is used often, including by the CCP. They own the current administration.

Found General Chang

[Pooter]

12 hours ago, torqued said:

My argument has always been that the vaccine is not completely safe and that vaccine is not completely effective.

Evidence continues to leak through the massive propaganda wall that this vaccine is neither.

I LOL'd because it was obvious you don't understand the table. The denominator is already in the table. FIRST COLUMN. WTF? I continue to LOL because I can't believe I have to point this out

All Old People (>50) Delta COVID Deaths (Denominator) - 1644

Vaccinated (Numerator) - 1054

Unvaccinated (Numerator) - 437

You are trying to bury the evidence in "denominators of all old people deaths for all reasons" when the fact of the matter is the deaths in that table are being attributed to COVID. Yes, old people die of a lot of things. But these are all the deaths in the UK being attributed to COVID by a positive specimen test and after receiving a vaccine. If the people in your denominators were dying from other old people reasons, they wouldn't be recorded in the table. Why would any of them be recorded as dying of COVID if they are vaccinated, and at higher rates (in the same row) than unvaccinated? It is because the vaccine doesn't work as advertised?

Yes, I am arguing there is evidence to suggest the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death to the extent that it should be mandatory for everyone. Breakthrough infections. A outdated vaccine that was manufactured for the original genomic sequence and one that will continue to mutate even if 100% of the population receives this vaccine.

Somehow I get the impression no one in your SQ cares about your personal assessment of their character.

 

Wrong again. You aren't controlling for the total number of people in the vaccinated and unvaccinated sub groups. Your continuing arrogance in the face of being so objectively wrong is getting pretty obnoxious. 
 

When you calculate a death rate you divide deaths in a particular sub group by total number of people in that sub group. You do not divide a death number by another death number. That results in a unit-less proportion that has no context. We will now spell this out so there's no more confusion. 
 

When you want to find the total covid death rate you do this:

Number of covid deaths /  number of people 

So if you want the elderly vaccinated covid death rate you do this: 

number of vaxxed old people deaths / number of vaxxed old people

And if you want unvaxxed old people death rate you do this: 

number of unvaxxed old people deaths / number of unvaxxed old people

Hopefully by now you have caught on that there are two different denominators and one is much larger than the other. And that is why the death rate can be much lower for vaxxed old people despite their numerator being larger.
 

The only thing your mis-analysis allows you to say is that approximately two thirds of the UK elderly covid deaths are among vaccinated and one third are the unvaccinated. But without the correct denominators that number does not tell you anything useful about death rates and relative risk level between the two groups.

Quick thought experiment. If everyone had the shot, vaccinated people would account for 100% of the deaths! My goodness! The vaccine must be pointless! It's almost like having the correct denominator actually matters. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Pooter