COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[ViperMan]

No way they'll give him wings! Are you high? It doesn't matter that he'll have completed all the pilot training "requirements." He'll not be an officer in good standing, and that's a major, perhaps more fundamental component.

[ViperMan]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:29 PM, pawnman said:

Chang was annoying, but at least he was coherent. 

Annoying, yes. Consistent, sure. Coherent, nope.

[gearhog]

10 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

No way they'll give him wings! Are you high? It doesn't matter that he'll have completed all the pilot training "requirements." He'll not be an officer in good standing, and that's a major, perhaps more fundamental component.

 

2 hours ago, torqued said:

I don't know the details of this one, but the student has finished flying so graduation should be before the official deadline of Nov 2.

If this student were smart, he'd remain passively non-compliant until after he's winged.

 

[bfargin]

I did the J&J and that son of a gun hurt like all get out going in. I've had tons of shots, but that was by far the most painful jab so far (not knee buckling pain but def uncomfortable).

[TheNewGazmo]

I did the J&J and that son of a gun hurt like all get out going in. I've had tons of shots, but that was by far the most painful jab so far (not knee buckling pain but def uncomfortable).

Interesting. Maybe they hit the bone... didn't even feel my Pfizer. Actually had to look over and see that the dude was done. Then a week later it felt like someone was sticking an ice pick into my arm pit.

[bfargin]

Yeah I had a couple of friends do JJ and same reaction, but the few people I know who did others said the actual shot didn't really hurt. So I'm not sure what was in the formula for JJ.

[Standby]

I’ve received lots of anthrax shots and most people will say they make your arm the most sore of all the usual mobility shots. The J&J was like a factor of 3-5 more “painful”. I got mine before any of the mandates were published and it’s caught up with IMR and I’m green. Side effects I experienced: splitting headache and general malaise for a day. Sore arm persisted for 3 days. Other possible side effects: I never lose 5G service, women (and men) are suddenly more interested in me, and I’ve discovered hidden treasures buried deep in the ocean. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Standby
bad at graham uhr

[gearhog]

There is a faint glimmer of hope. An FDA advisory panel voted 16-2 against a Pfizer booster for ages 16+ after a meeting with Niki Minaj.

Will the FDA, CDC, and Biden admin ignore it? Probably, but it at least indicates there is some healthy skepticism and courage among scientists doing "science". Hopefully it spreads.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-advisory-group-rejects-covid-boosters-limits-high-risk-groups-rcna2074

[FUSEPLUG]

1 hour ago, torqued said:

There is a faint glimmer of hope. An FDA advisory panel voted 16-2 against a Pfizer booster for ages 16+ after a meeting with Niki Minaj.

Chalk one up for the good guys!

I post the following with a NSFW tag.  Though, I have a feeling the ACTUAL lyrics were probably far more offensive.

You've been warned...  

 

Edited September 18, 2021 by FUSEPLUG

[Sim]

 

[gearhog]

3 hours ago, Sim said:

 

Whoa. I watched started watching after the timestamp you linked to. It should be mandatory watching for everyone. Even the pro-vaccine doctors are skeptical, and some seem angry about what they're discovering about the vaccine. I wish I had a transcript. The truth is finally finding a way out.

[FLEA]

10 minutes ago, torqued said:

Whoa. I watched started watching after the timestamp you linked to. It should be mandatory watching for everyone. Even the pro-vaccine doctors are skeptical, and some seem angry about what they're discovering about the vaccine. I wish I had a transcript. The truth is finally finding a way out.

Yeah everything from the time stamp to about the next 30 minutes is pretty eye opening. 

[Guardian]

My time stamp function failed. Say what time to what time pls.

[FLEA]

4:12:49 onward. I really thought the presentation about 2-3 later where a pro vaccine doctor discussed the data of sample groups not being strong enough to overcome vaccine hesitancy was really good and right in line with my concerns. 

[Scooter14]

 

Thank you for posting, I’m working my way through it.

There’s a lot to unpack here.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Sim said:

 

Now that the truth is leaking out, do not for one moment, ANY of you on this forum, forget what all of us skeptics have been saying this entire time. Do not forget everything you were told such as it being 100% safe, the "science is settled", listen to the "experts", and on and on. You're all capable of intelligence, however don't be incapable of having a memory. Never forget how much you've been lied to and what people did the lying.

[TheNewGazmo]

Some talk about mask wear....

 

 

[Splash95]

The mods apparently locked the other thread, and since the wu flu doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon I think we should still have the ability to discuss it and its impact within and outside the AF. 

Anyone follow Alex Berenson btw? https://alexberenson.substack.com/

[glockenspiel]

9 minutes ago, Splash95 said:

The mods apparently locked the other thread, and since the wu flu doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon I think we should still have the ability to discuss it and its impact within and outside the AF. 

Anyone follow Alex Berenson btw? https://alexberenson.substack.com/

I agree, but it was getting out of hand. Ad hominem on both sides of the argument. Not productive. Hopefully we can stick to more civil, idea (not person) based criticism and dialogue. BO is a great resource to hear differing opinions!

Here what seems to be an earnest attempt to ask important question for leaders in the marine corps.

Very professional, civil, and advocate for good order and discipline. These are legitimate questions. Hope they get answered before a large exodus from our military.

[Negatory]

3 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

Very professional, civil, and advocate for good order and discipline. These are legitimate questions. Hope they get answered before a large exodus from our military.

I don’t know why, but this thread being locked and then reopened with this crap has really hit a nerve. I’m tired of these “points” that aren’t points. Are we ever going to acknowledge facts and actually debate policies based on reason opposed to emotion? Are we going to talk about things like reasonable age based policies or rotating geographic protections? Are we ever going to actually acknowledge that the real risk is somewhere in the middle of “0.00007%” and “everyone is at significant risk?” Are we going to talk about risk based policies that actually take into account things like BMI, race, or health status to more effectively deal with this pandemic? Are we going to discuss policies to actually temporarily deal with the increased real hospital risk over time in a population if we do have a large infection? Are we going to discuss the high chance that Omicron actually will max out hospitals again even with vaccines based on its extremely high infection rate and ability to evade previous immunity? About how it’s almost a mathematical certainty we will approach 1.0M cases per day in the next week?

Or are we going to keep posting politicized, debunked talking points on both the liberal and conservative sides and then argue about how they’re wrong when we’ve had these discussions 10 times already? Whether that’s folks on the left not acknowledging the significantly diminished effects of the vaccine on transmission/infection or folks on the right posting bs talking points like you just did - it’s all fuckin stupid. But, just as you would say “Orange man bad” to condense an actually intricate thought into a BS political viewpoint, I guess I could just summarize your post as “Brandon XD lol”.

I’m reminded of a good ole saying that generally holds true - definitely in these debates: “The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is needed to produce it.” But let’s look at his “points.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini's_law

1) 0 religious exceptions have been passed - so what? This is a question literally just to generate outrage, but not logically. We’ve addressed hypocrisy here in other threads, and I don’t think it was successfully refuted, but I guess if you keep saying that religious exemptions should be approved then by golly I guess they should be.

2) Him asking why the FDA didn’t explicitly recommend the vaccine is irrelevant when the CDC explicitly does recommend it. Oh, why didn’t he mention that? Intentionally misleading to split hairs between gov organizations to make it seem like the government doesn’t have a stance

3) The vaccine has been highly politicized, resulting in orders of magnitude higher reporting than for previous vaccines. This is literally just how politics appears in statistics - its comparing tomatoes to apples. I agree that there are potentially mildly increased risks of myocarditis for young males - but that’s not his point. He is saying that there are blanket increased rates of adverse events - which isn’t true, it’s just total numbers.

4) Bullshit trying to mislead people about Comirnaty generic vs brand when they are chemically identical and the government treats them legally the exact same. But he didn’t want to mention that? This is maybe the dumbest argument that armchair lawyers love to cite.

5) Only looking at deaths is intentionally misleading when we’ve seen that COVID can make things like carrier or submarine readiness questionable based purely on sickness, outbreaks, or long term effects. You had COVID? It takes you out for a few days. Oh and don’t forget that 10-30% of folks that had COVID have long term effects on their neuromuscular, digestive, respiratory, or cardiovascular systems. But we can ignore that. We can ignore everything but deaths, right? By the way, you’re also required to be vaccinated against rubella and the flu, which are significantly less bad from every aspect, yet where are the complaints? Also, quick question, how many marines have died from Rubella?

And I’m done here. It has taken me 10 times the energy to halfway refute this dumb video that has “legitimate questions.” Every singe one was intentionally misleading, largely fallacious, and irrelevant. I honestly look forward to this guy and similarly misguided folks like him that spout BS on social media in uniform getting their well-deserved discharges as they intentionally disrupt good order and discipline.

To end this rant on an even more sarcastic note, make sure to listen to Donald Trump’s recent direction to go get your booster.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Negatory

[dream big]

15 minutes ago, Negatory said:

I don’t know why, but this thread being locked and then reopened with this crap has really hit a nerve. I’m tired of these “points” that aren’t points. Are we ever going to acknowledge facts and actually debate policies based on reason opposed to emotion? Are we going to talk about things like reasonable age based policies or rotating geographic protections? Are we ever going to actually acknowledge that the real risk is somewhere in the middle of “0.00007%” and “everyone is at significant risk?” Are we going to talk about risk based policies that actually take into account things like BMI, race, or health status to more effectively deal with this pandemic? Are we going to discuss policies to actually temporarily deal with the increased real hospital risk over time in a population if we do have a large infection? Are we going to discuss the high chance that Omicron actually will max out hospitals again even with vaccines based on its extremely high infection rate and ability to evade previous immunity? About how it’s almost a mathematical certainty we will approach 1.0M cases per day in the next week?

Or are we going to keep posting politicized, debunked talking points on both the liberal and conservative sides and then argue about how they’re wrong when we’ve had these discussions 10 times already? Whether that’s folks on the left not acknowledging the significantly diminished effects of the vaccine on transmission/infection or folks on the right posting bs talking points like you just did - it’s all fuckin stupid. But, just as you would say “Orange man bad” to condense an actually intricate thought into a BS political viewpoint, I guess I could just summarize your post as “Brandon XD lol”.

I’m reminded of a good ole saying that generally holds true - definitely in these debates: “The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is needed to produce it.” But let’s look at his “points.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini's_law

1) 0 religious exceptions have been passed - so what? This is a question literally just to generate outrage, but not logically. We’ve addressed hypocrisy here in other threads, and I don’t think it was successfully refuted, but I guess if you keep saying that religious exemptions should be approved then by golly I guess they should be.

2) Him asking why the FDA didn’t explicitly recommend the vaccine is irrelevant when the CDC explicitly does recommend it. Oh, why didn’t he mention that? Intentionally misleading to split hairs between gov organizations to make it seem like the government doesn’t have a stance

3) The vaccine has been highly politicized, resulting in orders of magnitude higher reporting than for previous vaccines. This is literally just how politics appears in statistics - its comparing tomatoes to apples. I agree that there are potentially mildly increased risks of myocarditis for young males - but that’s not his point. He is saying that there are blanket increased rates of adverse events - which isn’t true, it’s just total numbers.

4) Bullshit trying to mislead people about Comirnaty generic vs brand when they are chemically identical and the government treats them legally the exact same. But he didn’t want to mention that? This is maybe the dumbest argument that armchair lawyers love to cite.

5) Only looking at deaths is intentionally misleading when we’ve seen that COVID can make things like carrier or submarine readiness questionable based purely on sickness, outbreaks, or long term effects. You had COVID? It takes you out for a few days. Oh and don’t forget that 10-30% of folks that had COVID have long term effects on their neuromuscular, digestive, respiratory, or cardiovascular systems. But we can ignore that. We can ignore everything but deaths, right? By the way, you’re also required to be vaccinated against rubella and the flu, which are significantly less bad from every aspect, yet where are the complaints? Also, quick question, how many marines have died from Rubella?

And I’m done here. It has taken me 10 times the energy to halfway refute this dumb video that has “legitimate questions.” Every singe one was intentionally misleading, largely fallacious, and irrelevant. I honestly look forward to this guy and similarly misguided folks like him that spout BS on social media in uniform getting their well-deserved discharges.

To end this rant on an even more sarcastic note, make sure to listen to Donald Trump’s recent direction to go get your booster.

Not sure what your last point is, are you trying to say that even Donald Trump got the booster so why would most non-vaxxers (conceivably Trump supporters) not get it? 
 

 

[glockenspiel]

7 hours ago, Negatory said:

I don’t know why, but this thread being locked and then reopened with this crap has really hit a nerve. I’m tired of these “points” that aren’t points. Are we ever going to acknowledge facts and actually debate policies based on reason opposed to emotion? Are we going to talk about things like reasonable age based policies or rotating geographic protections? Are we ever going to actually acknowledge that the real risk is somewhere in the middle of “0.00007%” and “everyone is at significant risk?” Are we going to talk about risk based policies that actually take into account things like BMI, race, or health status to more effectively deal with this pandemic? Are we going to discuss policies to actually temporarily deal with the increased real hospital risk over time in a population if we do have a large infection? Are we going to discuss the high chance that Omicron actually will max out hospitals again even with vaccines based on its extremely high infection rate and ability to evade previous immunity? About how it’s almost a mathematical certainty we will approach 1.0M cases per day in the next week?

Or are we going to keep posting politicized, debunked talking points on both the liberal and conservative sides and then argue about how they’re wrong when we’ve had these discussions 10 times already? Whether that’s folks on the left not acknowledging the significantly diminished effects of the vaccine on transmission/infection or folks on the right posting bs talking points like you just did - it’s all in stupid. But, just as you would say “Orange man bad” to condense an actually intricate thought into a BS political viewpoint, I guess I could just summarize your post as “Brandon XD lol”.

I’m reminded of a good ole saying that generally holds true - definitely in these debates: “The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than is needed to produce it.” But let’s look at his “points.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini's_law

1) 0 religious exceptions have been passed - so what? This is a question literally just to generate outrage, but not logically. We’ve addressed hypocrisy here in other threads, and I don’t think it was successfully refuted, but I guess if you keep saying that religious exemptions should be approved then by golly I guess they should be.

2) Him asking why the FDA didn’t explicitly recommend the vaccine is irrelevant when the CDC explicitly does recommend it. Oh, why didn’t he mention that? Intentionally misleading to split hairs between gov organizations to make it seem like the government doesn’t have a stance

3) The vaccine has been highly politicized, resulting in orders of magnitude higher reporting than for previous vaccines. This is literally just how politics appears in statistics - its comparing tomatoes to apples. I agree that there are potentially mildly increased risks of myocarditis for young males - but that’s not his point. He is saying that there are blanket increased rates of adverse events - which isn’t true, it’s just total numbers.

4) Bullshit trying to mislead people about Comirnaty generic vs brand when they are chemically identical and the government treats them legally the exact same. But he didn’t want to mention that? This is maybe the dumbest argument that armchair lawyers love to cite.

5) Only looking at deaths is intentionally misleading when we’ve seen that COVID can make things like carrier or submarine readiness questionable based purely on sickness, outbreaks, or long term effects. You had COVID? It takes you out for a few days. Oh and don’t forget that 10-30% of folks that had COVID have long term effects on their neuromuscular, digestive, respiratory, or cardiovascular systems. But we can ignore that. We can ignore everything but deaths, right? By the way, you’re also required to be vaccinated against rubella and the flu, which are significantly less bad from every aspect, yet where are the complaints? Also, quick question, how many marines have died from Rubella?

And I’m done here. It has taken me 10 times the energy to halfway refute this dumb video that has “legitimate questions.” Every singe one was intentionally misleading, largely fallacious, and irrelevant. I honestly look forward to this guy and similarly misguided folks like him that spout BS on social media in uniform getting their well-deserved discharges as they intentionally disrupt good order and discipline.

To end this rant on an even more sarcastic note, make sure to listen to Donald Trump’s recent direction to go get your booster.

I didn’t say anything about Trump….

thanks for taking the time to go through a few questions!
 

at the end of the day leaders regardless of their position on the mandate should do their level headed best to speak these “antivaxxers” with empathy, as I think some of the dissent is legitimate, whereas other dissent is fueled but mistrust instituted by FDA, Fauci, Trump, Biden and others ( “y’all aren’t horses”, “we need 55years to release documents”, “I am science”, “ you won’t get sick if you take the vaccine”, “these vaccines are miracles”, “take the vaccine so we can finally defeat covid”)— misleading, condescending comments, straight up lies, poor predictions, low accountability and bad policies have got many SM ready to pull chute. I hope they don’t because I think our military would suffer if there were a substantial step function decrease across all branches at once. 

[FLEA]

4 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

I didn’t say anything about Trump….

thanks for taking the time to go through a few questions!
 

at the end of the day leaders regardless of their position on the mandate should do their level headed best to speak these “antivaxxers” with empathy, as I think some of the dissent is legitimate, whereas other dissent is fueled but mistrust instituted by FDA, Fauci, Trump, Biden and others ( “y’all aren’t horses”, “we need 55years to release documents”, “I am science”, “ you won’t get sick if you take the vaccine”, “these vaccines are miracles”, “take the vaccine so we can finally defeat covid”)— misleading, condescending comments, straight up lies, poor predictions, low accountability and bad policies have got many SM ready to pull chute. I hope they don’t because I think our military would suffer if there were a substantial step function decrease across all branches at once. 

I don't know why Fauci isnt fired yet to be honest. That would go a long way to restoring trust. The dude is terrible at his job. How many unfilled promises has he made about when the pandemic would be over? I'm sure he was a very smart infectious disease researcher at one point in his career but he seems like the type of person that is promoted to policy maker and fails to understand the nuances that go with being a leader in that type of position vs just being an expert in your field. Always under promise and over deliver, not the other way around. Could you imagine the complete distrust and backlash that would occur if Austin promised US troops we would avoid war with Russia this year, and then a few weeks from now we end up in the Ukraine? His credibility would be shot. That's why despite however unlikely it is, we continue to tell people to prepare and be ready. 

The message from the beginning of the pandemic should have been consistent. "Americans should be prepared to live with social distancing for a few years but we will do everything possible to end the pandemic as soon as possible." Instead we got remarks like "2 weeks to flatten the curve" and "we will be back to normal life in the fall." Fauci is terrible because he doesn't understand the #1 rule of BO.net. Never pass up an opportunity to stfu. And everytime he says something, nature has its way and makes him look like an ass. 

The other thing that would go a long way is a small but simple legislation that guarantees future research on vaccine long term side effects by providing grant money, and then a crises fund to deal with any uncovered side effects. The research is small beans only in the few million dollars. The crises fund would take a bit more but if the vaccine is as safe as they say, which I predict it is, that bill could be earmarked to revest that money after 10 years. 

 

 

[brickhistory]

It would be interesting to see the cost-benefit analysis in an after-action by DoD regarding the blanket order, ostensibly designed to save lives and the efficiency of the fighting force, and the dollars sunk/experience lost for those who are refusing, for whatever reason, this order.

Napkin-level figures, but call it 10,000 AD across the Department.  Not all are going to be basics or first assignment enlisted, just as not all are going to be senior, soon-to-retire senior ranks, officer and enlisted.

Compare those to the numbers that were expected to be lost -death or disability - to China virus in the Department.  How much time and energy has been expended in the administrative process to review all the exception requests, not to mention the discharge process.

But it's only taxpayer money, so who cares?

Next is on to prepping for the coup and rooting out those "extremists!"

  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/2024-election-result-coup-trump-b1978961.html

[ViperMan]

14 hours ago, Negatory said:

Are we ever going to actually acknowledge that the real risk is somewhere in the middle of “0.00007%” and “everyone is at significant risk?” Are we going to talk about risk based policies that actually take into account things like BMI, race, or health status to more effectively deal with this pandemic?

Note, you can start that discussion any time you like - and there is also a law (can't remember what it's called) that says you don't have to disprove bullshit, or convince stupid people that they're dumb. So don't worry about it. The Alex Jones and Berenson types can generally be ignored.

Also, I'm not about to defend any of these stupid videos of soldiers "standing up" to the PTB and demanding answers to questions. I think they are grossly misguided, as a rule, and I don't think I would have made a good Marine. In any case, I think it's worth continuing the discussion on this point in particular.

14 hours ago, Negatory said:

1) 0 religious exceptions have been passed - so what? This is a question literally just to generate outrage, but not logically. We’ve addressed hypocrisy here in other threads, and I don’t think it was successfully refuted, but I guess if you keep saying that religious exemptions should be approved then by golly I guess they should be.

On this point, my personal belief is that there should be zero religious exemptions for anything in the military. Like, there shouldn't be regulatory guidance that governs religious exemptions. The only thing they do is put military leaders in the impossible situation of determining what "sincerely held" means - which is not a determination that can be made, unfortunately - and then arbitrarily granting and denying them based on that determination. This undermines their roles as leaders, because it does, in actuality, force their decisions to be arbitrary. But in any case, since religious exemptions are a thing, it matters.

I looked for, but could not find, a historical example of a religious exemption for a vaccine in the military. That said, I have a feeling that they're out there, and that they have been approved in the past. Taking that admitted assumption as the case, it was made clear to us as the ramp up to the vaccine being released that "religious exemptions" would not be a thing for the COVID vaccine. Well, ok, cool - not that I particularly care - but why was this message pushed out so clearly, and with such certainty? That occurrence strongly suggests to me that this is an "unofficially official" policy that there will not be any religious exemptions to this vaccine. The idea was floated at the highest levels of our government, and it was made absolutely, crystal clear, that there will not, under any circumstance, be exceptions to this policy - history and our present reality reflects that.

Why is that important? Because it adds to my suspicion that this is all theater. And every day that passes, I become more and more convinced that it actually is. We locked down when this thing first began, and at its absolute worst, we were seeing ~250K/ cases per day with ~3-4K deaths per day (if you subscribe to the notion that COVID was the sole cause of death, which I do not; https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html). Now, you're telling me that this thing is going to imminently peak not only to that level, but at a rate (mathematical certainty) that will top it by 4X!!! Are you kidding me? And all we get from #1 is a statement that if your vaxxed, you can go on vacation, but if you're not, you're gonna die??? Mkay. I don't believe you. I don't believe that these people actually think we're heading to a space where 12,000-16,000 people are going to be dying every day. I don't believe they believe that. If they did, they'd be taking different steps. It's fear porn in order to justify expediency that there is otherwise no appetite for. If they do believe that, and that's all they're doing, then they're even more cynical people than I already think.