COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[ViperMan]

5 hours ago, Negatory said:

We just got to 2X on confirmed cases. Probably 1.0M a day if you include unreported literally now. I’m not kidding you!

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-tally-us-counts-more-than-500000-new-covid-cases-in-a-day-lifting-the-daily-average-to-a-near-1-year-high-2021-12-28

I'm not surprised by this. Omicron is like, what, 70x as infectious as the other variants? And it can break through multiple shots? My point - which I include again below for your convenience, so you can read it again - is to say that I don't believe the HYPE around this next variant.

On 12/22/2021 at 2:30 PM, ViperMan said:

And all we get from #1 is a statement that if your vaxxed, you can go on vacation, but if you're not, you're gonna die??? Mkay. I don't believe you. I don't believe that these people actually think we're heading to a space where 12,000-16,000 people are going to be dying every day. I don't believe they believe that. If they did, they'd be taking different steps. It's fear porn in order to justify expediency that there is otherwise no appetite for. If they do believe that, and that's all they're doing, then they're even more cynical people than I already think.

All I'm saying is that they are either:

1. Lying about what they think will happen re: the death rate.
2. So cynical that they are right about impending doom and don't have the balls to act, or just don't care.

It's one of those two things. Neither one is complimentary to the administration. Now, if they suspect that literally a 100,000 people will be dying every week with this thing and they don't lock down? Hmmm...I'll be looking for LOTS of resignations from the people in charge of this thing. They have the power, and if they don't exercise if for political reasons, then they are done. More than they already are.

Thus far, Omicron has not been the scourge it could have been. It's highly infections, but not very virulent.

14 people have died in the UK (https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-says-14-deaths-129-hospitalised-by-omicron-2021-12-22/) as of a couple days ago, and more will.

Here are some unavoidable facts:

1. This bug is EXTRAORDINARILY transmissible. Regardless of vax status.
2. This bug is highly likely to infect you. Regardless of vax status.
3. If you get it, you are highly likely to spread it. Regardless of vax status.
4. If you wear a mask, you're probably doing something, but not much to help avoid spreading or catching it.

So, with that established, what is the point of all the panic? What is the point of mandates? What is the point of calling it a "pandemic of the unvaccinated"? How about we just let people be educated about the disease and their options, and call it a day? That's my vote.

[Prozac]

5 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

All I'm saying is that they are either:

1. Lying about what they think will happen re: the death rate.
2. So cynical that they are right about impending doom and don't have the balls to act, or just don't care.

It's one of those two things. 

Or, and here me out here, it COULD be that they are still unsure about how dangerous the variant is (yes we have preliminary data that symptoms are mild, but it takes time for real, actionable data to be verified) and are simply playing it safe until we know for sure that it is less severe. Why do we have to go straight to conspiracy when there is a far more likely, simple explanation? 

[ViperMan]

6 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Or, and here me out here, it COULD be that they are still unsure about how dangerous the variant is (yes we have preliminary data that symptoms are mild, but it takes time for real, actionable data to be verified) and are simply playing it safe until we know for sure that it is less severe. Why do we have to go straight to conspiracy when there is a far more likely, simple explanation? 

Mmmmmm...I think they know, because it's what the preliminary data shows. If it was 70x as infectious with the same death rate (or worse, possibly) do you think they'd be justified in not locking down again? Would they be justified to allow college football to continue? How about in-restaurant dining? Seems to me that it was all well and good to lock down last year, but now for some reason it's unacceptable. Why is it different now? Why aren't we locking down? Not why won't we lock down in a week or two, why haven't we already locked down? Ask yourself that.

Edited December 29, 2021 by ViperMan
wrong word

[Prozac]

35 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

Mmmmmm...I think they know, because it's what the preliminary data shows. If it was 70x as infectious with the same death rate (or worse, possibly) do you think they'd be justified in not locking down again? Would they be justified to allow college football to continue? How about in-restaurant dining? Seems to me that it was all well and good to lock down last year, but now for some reason it's unacceptable. Why is it different now? Why aren't we locking down? Not why won't we lock down in a week or two, why haven't we already locked down? Ask yourself that.

Again, they’re being cautious by reacting but not overreacting until they have real data. Remember, the simplest answer is very often the correct one. Put yourself in the shoes of the policy maker where the whole country is on edge waiting for your decision & half of them are likely to lambast whatever policy you decide on. Now add in the fact that you might want to be re-elected someday and it’s really not that hard to understand where this (or any) administration is coming from. 

[ViperMan]

6 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Again, they’re being cautious by reacting but not overreacting until they have real data. Remember, the simplest answer is very often the correct one. Put yourself in the shoes of the policy maker where the whole country is on edge waiting for your decision & half of them are likely to lambast whatever policy you decide on. Now add in the fact that you might want to be re-elected someday and it’s really not that hard to understand where this (or any) administration is coming from. 

So in-restaurant dining, football games, and the like are all ok with you then? Football playoffs are all good? If so, what is the big deal then and what is this conversation even about anymore? I'm just so confused at the apparent inconsistency between what we have seen thus far, and what the prediction is, and the difference between the two.

I'm not an idiot, and I just can't reconcile it. Also, I'm not predisposed to giving these people the benefit of the doubt anymore just playing my violin and being polite to all the other people who seem content to just go down with the ship.

[Prozac]

I think there’s a realization, a political realization, that there is only so much people will put up with. If I had to hazard a WAG it would be that the public health officials are urging more stringent measures than the current administration is willing to implement. This decision may be based on political expediency, considerations of second and third order effects of strict lockdowns, or most likely a combination of the above. In any case, it seems to me that the government is acting in an entirely expected way, which is to say they are taking data from public health, political, cultural, and economic sources and attempting to consider all of the above when creating policy. 

[BashiChuni]

"data". ha.

theyve been wrong about the entire god damn thing with not one fucking ounce of humility. fuck them.

[Sim]

 

[BashiChuni]

BEHOLD WHAT ONCE GOT PEOPLE BANNED FROM TWITTER IS NOW OFFICIAL NEW CDC POLICY!!!

 

WE MUST TRUST THE EXPERTS AND NEVER QUESTION THEM!!!

[BashiChuni]

“Newly updated guidelines” is code for “we were wrong and we were putting out incorrect information”

 

case and point why it’s disgusting that the left and some of you in here have been cheering censorship of “bad data”. GFYS

Edited December 29, 2021 by BashiChuni

[Pooter]

@Sim As riveting as trump campaign copypasta is, what exactly would he have done differently to prevent the deaths numbers seen over the course of 2021?

What exactly does dick measuring death numbers between trump and Biden accomplish? They had different variants to deal with and the disease wasn't even close to endemic during trump's term.  

In my view the only thing the trump admin did right was funneling money to big pharma to quickly develop and roll out a vaccine.  Other than that his public health messaging was a complete horse abortion.

Bottom line, it's easy to sling shit once you're not in charge anymore. But highly I doubt if we had another year of trump that we'd be in any different of a place than we are now. Republican and Democrat administrations have both shown they are utterly incapable of controlling this pandemic in any way. 

[Swizzle]

12 minutes ago, Pooter said:

@Sim As riveting as trump campaign copypasta is, what exactly would he have done differently to prevent the deaths numbers seen over the course of 2021?

What exactly does dick measuring death numbers between trump and Biden accomplish? They had different variants to deal with and the disease wasn't even close to endemic during trump's term.  

In my view the only thing the trump admin did right was funneling money to big pharma to quickly develop and roll out a vaccine.  Other than that his public health messaging was a complete horse abortion.

Bottom line, it's easy to sling shit once you're not in charge anymore. But highly I doubt if we had another year of trump that we'd be in any different of a place than we are now. Republican and Democrat administrations have both shown they are utterly incapable of controlling this pandemic in any way. 

If neither can control it, why mandate things (i.e. isolation and inthat can hurt people's health/careers/lives? Why control people and instead let people control themselves if it makes little to no difference? Is not freer choice better than lessor, fewer choice(s)?

[Pooter]

27 minutes ago, Swizzle said:

If neither can control it, why mandate things (i.e. isolation and inthat can hurt people's health/careers/lives? Why control people and instead let people control themselves if it makes little to no difference? Is not freer choice better than lessor, fewer choice(s)?

Absolutely agree. But the wall of text sim so graciously provided us implies throughout that trump could have controlled the virus better.  Which is abject nonsense. 

[Sim]

39 minutes ago, Pooter said:

what exactly would he have done differently to prevent the deaths numbers seen over the course of 2021?

Zelenko protocol pills available in every store for anyone to buy. Just this would save at least 80% (IMHO 99%)  of deaths and keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. This information was available a year ago and ignored. 

 

https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/ZelenkoProtocol.pdf

But USG do not suggest out patient treatments of any kind. They also ignore science that natural immunity exist. 

....FJB! (and FDT too) 

 

[timberlin]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

“Newly updated guidelines” is code for “we were wrong and we were putting out incorrect information”

 

case and point why it’s disgusting that the left and some of you in here have been cheering censorship of “bad data”. GFYS

The foundation of the scientific method is that nothing, including the fundamental laws of science, are immune to inquiry.  Ideas only become more elevated and accepted after passing through rigorous skepticism; strong skepticism was celebrated as it is the essential conduit to bring us nearer to absolute truths .  Unfortunately, what we've seen is anything but that.

The highly visible and open inquiry into what C19 is and how to fight it has left scientific community with lots of egg on its face.  In lieu of exploring legitimate probes, anything that dared to question the core narrative was labeled as "dangerous," cast aside as a wacko conspiracy theory, and subsequently scrubbed from the public forums.  Scientists cozied up to politics instead of remaining the separate and unbiased sources they claim to be.  Instead of being agile and adaptive, this new rigid path failed to respond quickly and appropriately.  The crux of this all is that this deviation from the fundamental ideals of the scientific method has only proven how essential it is to keep to it in the first place.  The hubris of the community and it's complete reluctance to appropriately debrief and self-correct greatly exasperated the failures we saw in our responses.  What we are seeing now is that scientists are finally beginning to look into theories that were brought up (and quickly disregarded) over a year ago that could have provided invaluable information into appropriate policy construction.  It's impossible to know what kind of impact this would have made, but I fail to see how the availability of more correct information could lead to worse outcomes.

Whenever we get on the backside of this, the public trust in the scientific community has been significantly damaged and it will take some time to gain it back.  But, what do I know, maybe there's some new science they're teaching since I finished grad school. 

[Pooter]

16 minutes ago, Sim said:

Zelenko protocol pills available in every store for anyone to buy. Just this would save at least 80% (IMHO 99%)  of deaths and keep hospitals from being overwhelmed. This information was available a year ago and ignored. 

 

https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/ZelenkoProtocol.pdf

But USG do not suggest out patient treatments of any kind. They also ignore science that natural immunity exist. 

....FJB! (and FDT too) 

 

Your attachment says these protocol recommendations existed in June of 2020. By my count that leaves 7 months of trump presidency to boost manufacturing and distribution of these miracle pills. So why didn't he? They created and distributed a vaccine in a year, shouldn't distributing a cocktail of existing medications be a much easier lift?  It's almost like it's easy to sling crap about what you would've done with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. 
 

Oh and maybe just maybe people would have taken these therapeutics more seriously at the time if trump's communications hadn't been the clown show of the century. 

[Sim]

10 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Oh and maybe just maybe people would have taken these therapeutics more seriously at the time if trump's communications hadn't been the clown show of the century. 

I'm not supporting either administration. This info was available during Trump and Biden time, yet people had to resort to eating f__king horse dewormer because USG refused to acknowledge (and still do) that any treatment exists other than a "vax". In what sane world do you have to sue hospitals to allow ivermectin treatment because docs do not want to vector not even an inch from CDC guidance? Honk honk! 🤡 

[ViperMan]

19 hours ago, Prozac said:

I think there’s a realization, a political realization, that there is only so much people will put up with. If I had to hazard a WAG it would be that the public health officials are urging more stringent measures than the current administration is willing to implement. This decision may be based on political expediency, considerations of second and third order effects of strict lockdowns, or most likely a combination of the above. In any case, it seems to me that the government is acting in an entirely expected way, which is to say they are taking data from public health, political, cultural, and economic sources and attempting to consider all of the above when creating policy. 

Fine. But are YOU ok with those things I've listed, and if so, why? If not, why not? What is your opinion?

[DosXX]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/12/22/covid-omicron-variant-ihme-models-predict-140-m-new-infections-winter/8967421002/

"Researchers found the infection-hospitalization rate of omicron is about 90% to 96% lower than delta, and the infection-fatality rate is about 97% to 99% lower. In the past, we roughly thought that COVID was 10 times worse than flu and now we have a variant that is probably at least 10 times less severe,” Murray said. So, omicron will probably … be less severe than flu but much more transmissible.”

Lol the left is shitting on the CDC now, still think they're right. I'm team covid parties now I guess. This variant is basically a super spreader cold now and vaccines are widely available. I'm boosted and I'm pretty sure I have it. Everyone popped where I'm at. 

 

[Prosuper]

I wonder if moral waivers were being issued then.

[ViperMan]

2 hours ago, Prosuper said:

I wonder if moral waivers were being issued then.

LOL

"Hey, 2...what the hell's with all the bbq sauce in your helmet bag???"

[Sim]

Quote

In preparation for this change, CDC recommends clinical laboratories and testing sites that have been using the CDC 2019-nCoV RT-PCR assay select and begin their transition to another FDA-authorized COVID-19 test. CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses. Such assays can facilitate continued testing for both influenza and SARS-CoV-2 and can save both time and resources as we head into influenza season.

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

 

Oh, look. PCR test can't differentiate between C19 and flu. 🤡

[Waingro]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

 

Oh, look. PCR test can't differentiate between C19 and flu. 🤡

What's it like to read scientific literature, and only understand a small chunk of it? Is it like hearing someone speak Spanish and being able to pick out a few words here and there? Your clown emoji is fitting. 

[Prozac]

19 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Fine. But are YOU ok with those things I've listed, and if so, why? If not, why not? What is your opinion?

Yes I am. I’ve always been in favor of a measured response that takes a wholistic look at how society will be affected by any mitigation measures. I have never been in favor of hard lockdowns or other draconian measures. However, if there are easy things we can do while keeping society running (Note: I realize my definition of “easy” may be different from yours), then I’m generally for them.
 

Wearing a mask on an airplane for instance. While I may find it slightly annoying, the real and yes, perceived, effects of wearing one are a small inconvenience if it means the airline industry can remain whole. Even if you believe it’s mostly theater, potting a piece of cloth over your face for a couple hours is a pretty “easy” measure. I’m almost positive you’ll disagree with my next statement, but I basically feel the same way about vaccination. Even at a “low” effectiveness rate (let’s say 40% effective at preventing disease), in a large group setting, that is orders of magnitude less spread. And while the prophylactic effect of the vaccines may be considered disappointing by some, they still do an excellent job at preventing severe illness and keeping people out of the hospital. Personally, I consider the trade off (sore arm, a day of fatigue) to be well worth the payoff for me personally and society as a whole. 

I do not support such severe measures as hard lockdowns, school closures, severely limiting seating in restaurants, forced small business closures, or shuttering public transportation to name a few. Fortunately we haven’t seen those kinds of measures in the United States for some time now. Some parts of the world, namely many Asian countries, appear to have lost their collective minds indefinitely. Overall, I believe the current mitigation measures in the United States are reasonable and effective given the need to balance public health and allow society to continue to run. 

[Prozac]

6 minutes ago, Waingro said:

What's it like to read scientific literature, and only understand a small chunk of it? Is it like hearing someone speak Spanish and being able to pick out a few words here and there? Your clown emoji is fitting. 

No. Most people listening to a foreign language are capable of realizing they don’t understand most of it. What’s going on here is more akin to a non flying civilian perusing your dash 1 for an hour & then promptly declaring himself an expert in your weapons system.