COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[ViperMan]

@Negatory @Prozac : Now that we have more data, I would like to close out our conversation from back in late December/early January re: how bad Omicron was going to be, how worried everyone needed to be (i.e. panic, NOW), and what our society's response should have been going forward. The Science™️, is in, and it is settled: there weren't ~15K deaths per day from Omicron. Deaths did not exceed the 4x multiplier cited as panic porn - which is what was predicted for you guys on this very thread, since we knew then from South Africa that it was 70x more contagious than Delta. So I hope this can be at least one data point that you should be careful which "experts" you trust and who you outsource your thinking to. There's my credentials. I should now be more credible than Fauci in your eyes. It turns out out that my non-expert opinion was better than all the other "experts" out there that were cited by you guys.

What's more? The "news" cycle this morning: "We may not have reached the peak, yet, but let's go ahead and drop all the mask mandates." So says Phil Murphy and other democrats (NJ, RI, NV, IL). I'm sure that has everything to do with the fact that it's as deadly as you all said, and nothing to do with the fact that the midterms are pending...yeah, couldn't be. I'm personally wondering why they're not sticking to the CDC's advice, which is "not so fast" when it comes to dropping the masks. What about the experts!?! LOL. The cognitive dissonance is so loud I can hear it outside their own rattle cans. Our response was and still is almost wholly subject to political calculation at this point. I can't wait for all those Dems to be taken to task on NBC/ABC/CNN/MSNBC next week for 'bucking' the experts as the R's were. I won't hold my breath though.

https://www.nj.com/opinion/2022/02/the-end-of-mask-mandates-sheneman.html

https://www.providencejournal.com/story/news/local/2022/02/11/ri-covid-mask-mandate-indoors-schools-planes-buses-colleges/6736653001/

https://www.fox5vegas.com/coronavirus/gov-sisolak-lifts-mask-mandate-in-nevada-effective-immediately/article_78ae3250-89cf-11ec-b5e6-470f4b068c75.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-02-11/did-mask-mandates-work-the-data-is-in-and-the-answer-is-no

CA, WA, OR, and a bunch of other Dem states to follow: https://finance.yahoo.com/video/covid-19-more-states-end-204102454.html

Anyway, now that the data is there to support it and none of us needs to hypothesize (or appeal to the authority of so-called "experts") anymore, I thought it was important to publicly state, for the record, that I was right and you were wrong.

[Negatory]

Although you are desperate for validation - craving the herd’s approval and being able to say “I told ya so” - you’re not gonna find it.

I never said there was a guaranteed increase in deaths. I never said that omicron would have a death rate that was the same as delta or higher. I said there would likely be over a million cases a day, and we couldn’t know how that would impact the healthcare system. You said that there was no chance we could quadruple our maximum cases per day and were very wrong within just a couple weeks. Standard. Maybe you forget that I used exact quotes from you to prove how incorrect you were. In reality, I see that still bugs you.

Glad the mortality of this virus was significantly lower for Omicron. I am and have been fully in support of removing all mask and vaccine mandates shortly after more data came out (but you don’t know or can’t accept this because you can’t debate a nuanced opinion). Go ahead, check my posts. This is not gonna be the “and then they clapped” moment you wish it would be.

[ViperMan]

55 minutes ago, Negatory said:

I never said there was a guaranteed increase in deaths. I never said that omicron would have a death rate that was the same as delta or higher. I said there would likely be over a million cases a day, and we couldn’t know how that would impact the healthcare system. You said that there was no chance we could quadruple our maximum cases per day and were very wrong within just a couple weeks.

Mkay. I'm glad you never said it directly. I suppose you're unfamiliar with the concepts of implication or multiplication. You did strongly suggest those numbers, however, with the 5-15% death rate you quoted numerous times. Sooooo, 5-15% of 1.0M people per week is 50K - 150K. Since approx 16% of people in the US are over 70 yrs old, that means we should have seen approx 8K - 24K people (only those older than 70!) dying every week. We didn't see that. And many of us knew we weren't going to see that. And the actions our government took during those early weeks of January reflect their knowledge that we weren't going to see that, either. Some on this board are overly disturbed by others' lack of faith. Your numbers were and are wrong.

So sure, you can state under oath that you didn't say it, but you said it.

Anyway. The point is some of us knew this wasn't going to be as big a problem. Many others were running around freaking out and imploring everyone to share in their panic. I just felt like it was worth invalidating some of the previous BS on this thread a little bit more neatly now that we do know for sure.

On 12/26/2021 at 9:02 AM, Negatory said:

Please do enlighten me, how do averages work? And what is your point? Also, remember that I specifically was talking about folks with a COVID death rate from 5-15% when this reply was created, so make sure to include only the ages that that statistic applies to. Show your work.

Oh and if your point is that the death rate for each age is actually lower because there are fewer males than females at those ages, then I totally agree. Thanks, I just figured that would be lost so I just halfed it for y’all.

On 12/28/2021 at 12:44 PM, Negatory said:

Okay, we’ll I’m not okay with a 5-15% and 30% mortality rate for a population that will almost surely get infected with entirely unmitigated spread. That’s where we disagree! Great, we figured it out.

On 12/28/2021 at 12:49 PM, Negatory said:

We just got to 2X on confirmed cases. Probably 1.0M a day if you include unreported literally now. I’m not kidding you!

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-tally-us-counts-more-than-500000-new-covid-cases-in-a-day-lifting-the-daily-average-to-a-near-1-year-high-2021-12-28

[BashiChuni]

Viper man for the win. 
 

quotes, facts, science. Nice work! 👍 

[BashiChuni]

Also I’m sure the Russians are terrified of our masked troops OUTSIDE. 

[brickhistory]

Of which we are STILL kicking out around 10,000 of those troops.

Because science...

Which is something that the "didn't say it, wasn't me" brigade strongly support.

[Prozac]

3 hours ago, Negatory said:

Although you are desperate for validation - craving the herd’s approval and being able to say “I told ya so” - you’re not gonna find it.

I never said there was a guaranteed increase in deaths. I never said that omicron would have a death rate that was the same as delta or higher. I said there would likely be over a million cases a day, and we couldn’t know how that would impact the healthcare system. You said that there was no chance we could quadruple our maximum cases per day and were very wrong within just a couple weeks. Standard. Maybe you forget that I used exact quotes from you to prove how incorrect you were. In reality, I see that still bugs you.

Glad the mortality of this virus was significantly lower for Omicron. I am and have been fully in support of removing all mask and vaccine mandates shortly after more data came out (but you don’t know or can’t accept this because you can’t debate a nuanced opinion). Go ahead, check my posts. This is not gonna be the “and then they clapped” moment you wish it would be.

I think Viper and many others have built up a perfect foil in their heads and when someone like you or I present any dissenting opinion, they like to place us in that slot. The truth is most people on all sides of the issue have nuanced views that make it hard to put them into two easy categories: “anti vax” or “fear porn monger”. @ViperMan, fwiw, I will continue to base my decisions and opinions on the advice of medical experts, despite your apparent impeccable credentials as an aviation god, therefore unquestionable expert in medicine, finance, legal advice, and any other subject you choose to pontificate upon. You sir, are going to fit right in with the crusty airline captain crowd someday. 

[ViperMan]

2 hours ago, Prozac said:

I think Viper and many others have built up a perfect foil in their heads and when someone like you or I present any dissenting opinion, they like to place us in that slot. The truth is most people on all sides of the issue have nuanced views that make it hard to put them into two easy categories: “anti vax” or “fear porn monger”. @ViperMan, fwiw, I will continue to base my decisions and opinions on the advice of medical experts, despite your apparent impeccable credentials as an aviation god, therefore unquestionable expert in medicine, finance, legal advice, and any other subject you choose to pontificate upon. You sir, are going to fit right in with the crusty airline captain crowd someday. 

Nope. Just trying to have a reasoned debate/discussion using fact, reason, and logic to best understand and orient myself in this new world we find ourselves in. All while navigating heaps of disinformation spread by those who know better and those who are equipped to know better.

[bennynova]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:41 PM, MCO said:

I wouldn’t do any of those things, and I’m against mandates. But who cares if someone wants to wear a mask on their own? I saw it all the time in Japan pre-pandemic and no one cared. I don’t understand the rage it causes. Just like I don’t understand the rage not wearing a mask causes. 
 

Why can’t people just do what they want?

Yes.  People should do what they want.   
 

I think it causes rage in the current situation when it’s mandatory...yet it’s only really mandatory if everyone is a lemming and follows the rule blindly, with no common sense.  
 

it’s also frustrating to see society as a whole, so afraid because of the lies we are spewed 

[glockenspiel]

On 2/13/2022 at 3:24 PM, Prozac said:

I think Viper and many others have built up a perfect foil in their heads and when someone like you or I present any dissenting opinion, they like to place us in that slot. The truth is most people on all sides of the issue have nuanced views that make it hard to put them into two easy categories: “anti vax” or “fear porn monger”. @ViperMan, fwiw, I will continue to base my decisions and opinions on the advice of medical experts, despite your apparent impeccable credentials as an aviation god, therefore unquestionable expert in medicine, finance, legal advice, and any other subject you choose to pontificate upon. You sir, are going to fit right in with the crusty airline captain crowd someday. 

Which experts?

Nice ad homonym at the end. Total zinger! Always a good call when logic fails.

[pawnman]

On 2/13/2022 at 4:24 PM, Prozac said:

I think Viper and many others have built up a perfect foil in their heads and when someone like you or I present any dissenting opinion, they like to place us in that slot. The truth is most people on all sides of the issue have nuanced views that make it hard to put them into two easy categories: “anti vax” or “fear porn monger”. @ViperMan, fwiw, I will continue to base my decisions and opinions on the advice of medical experts, despite your apparent impeccable credentials as an aviation god, therefore unquestionable expert in medicine, finance, legal advice, and any other subject you choose to pontificate upon. You sir, are going to fit right in with the crusty airline captain crowd someday. 

"You're either with us or you're against us" is always a great method to solve complex problems. 

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

"You're either with us or you're against us" is always a great method to solve complex problems. 

So ironic you just posted that. Oh man

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

So ironic you just posted that. Oh man

Thanks for presenting such a clear example.

"This guy supported legal orders for masks and vaccinations for the military.  That means he wants to lock everything down and arrest all the truckers!  He wants to inject fetuses while they're still in the womb!"

Good work.  Exhibit 6900 in this thread why the country is so polarized.

[SurelySerious]

Thanks for presenting such a clear example.
"This guy supported legal orders for masks and vaccinations for the military.  That means he wants to lock everything down and arrest all the truckers!  He wants to inject fetuses while they're still in the womb!"
Good work.  Exhibit 6900 in this thread why the country is so polarized.

It was likely the flippant and polarizing way in which you have supported those positions to which he was referring, but keep self-generating examples of polarized bs with zero self awareness.

[BFM this]

The dissonance is strong in this one...

[Sim]

 

 

[BashiChuni]

On 2/15/2022 at 12:15 PM, pawnman said:

"You're either with us or you're against us" is always a great method to solve complex problems. 

pawnman i honestly want to understand you.

can you please tell me how big tech censoring viewpoints/tweets/opinions/monetary donations, de-platforming individuals who have differing opinions that do not fall in line with your sides thinking is not "with us or against us" mentality?

to any outsider this is hypocrisy.

the left always says they champion "tolerance" until they encounter views not their own. then that "tolerance" quickly becomes intolerance. and since the left controls big tech/media, that intolerance takes the form of bans and censorship.

 

so please, please...spare me the faux outrage of your statement. and i will wait for a logical reply on your part. thank you.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

pawnman i honestly want to understand you.

can you please tell me how big tech censoring viewpoints/tweets/opinions/monetary donations, de-platforming individuals who have differing opinions that do not fall in line with your sides thinking is not "with us or against us" mentality?

to any outsider this is hypocrisy.

the left always says they champion "tolerance" until they encounter views not their own. then that "tolerance" quickly becomes intolerance. and since the left controls big tech/media, that intolerance takes the form of bans and censorship.

 

so please, please...spare me the faux outrage of your statement. and i will wait for a logical reply on your part. thank you.

I DO think that big tech censoring people and deplatforming folks is a part of what I'm talking about.  And I think it's bad we've surrendered so much of our discourse to these giant companies.  I think it's insane that Trudeau is seizing bank accounts and trucks from protesters who did nothing more than park their rigs.  I think it's crazy there are still schools that are closed. I was on board with the mask mandates at the time because they don't cost much, don't harm anyone, and the data we had said they helped (no, not a 100% elimination of Covid, but a reduction).  We have new data that says masks are useless...so I've changed my stance, with new data, and I think we should start getting rid of the mandates. I already thought it was silly to walk into a restaurant with a mask, only to take it off once seated.

I still maintain that the masks and vaccines were lawful orders, and I've been ordered to do dumber things for worse reasons.

The fact that you immediately thought I was on the other side of that issue, because I was on the other side of a completely different issue, is exactly what I mean. We probably have more in common than we disagree on. But because we disagreed on vaccine mandates for the military, you assume I'm going to disagree with you on every topic.

[BashiChuni]

very good post pawnman!

i think most americans are closer in agreement then MSNBC or FOXNEWS tries to portray. i appreciate your thoughtful reply

[brickhistory]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

very good post pawnman!

i think most americans are closer in agreement then MSNBC or FOXNEWS tries to portray. i appreciate your thoughtful reply

When people tell or show you who they are, believe them.

The appearance was positively giddy about 10,000 self-inflicted subtractions from our military forces

[brickhistory]

Court: Pilot, attendant will suffer under vaccine mandate (msn.com)

Quote

A pilot and a flight attendant for United Airlines will suffer “irreparable harm” under the airline’s COVID-19 policy that makes them choose between getting vaccinated in violation of their religious objections or going on unpaid leave, a divided federal appeals court panel in New Orleans ruled Thursday.

Air Force can’t compel Christian officer to get Covid shot, judge rules (msn.com)

 

Quote

 

Afederal judge in Georgia has temporarily blocked the U.S. military from enforcing its Covid-19 vaccine mandate against an Air Force officer seeking a religious exemption. 

The order was handed down a month after the unnamed officer, who is a Christian, filed a lawsuit alleging that the mandate violates her religious beliefs.

...

Self noted that the Air Force has rejected 99.76 percent of all religious accommodation requests. It had denied all of them up until the last two weeks when it approved nine, he said. 

“With such a marked record disfavoring religious accommodation requests, the Court easily finds that the Air Force’s process to protect religious rights is both illusory and insincere,” he wrote. “In short, it’s just ‘theater.’”

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by brickhistory

[Danger41]

“It’s just theater”… unlike the thousands of people who suddenly had a Paul on the road to Damascus moment with this vaccine. Quite the religious awakening. 
 

I think this whole vaccination thing is BS but people trying the religious route when it’s total crap really pisses me off. Totally undermines folks that have legitimate religious beliefs. 

[brickhistory]

Agreed.

But Dod's near blanket denial of any religious exceptions was yet another own goal to this bad, possibly illegal IMO, order.

DoD took/is taking nearly 10,000 casualty equivalents over a policy, not hard science.  

In a time when the percentage of eligibles to join is ever decreasing.

How many of those 10,000 would recommend joining?  How many people that know those 10,000 would recommend or consider joining themselves?  

Many of us here are 2, 3, or more generations of serving.  I wouldn't recommend anyone to enlist or commission.  Would you?

[Danger41]

That’s a good question. 3rd generation (WW2 Merchant Marine, Vietnam 2 x DFC aviator, my bitch ass) and I’ve got 3 kids. I don’t think I would actively dissuade service because I love this country and I think military service has many benefits but there’s definitely some serious rot in the force. And it ain’t with the Joe’s. 

[MCO]

34 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

Agreed.

But Dod's near blanket denial of any religious exceptions was yet another own goal to this bad, possibly illegal IMO, order.

DoD took/is taking nearly 10,000 casualty equivalents over a policy, not hard science.  

In a time when the percentage of eligibles to join is ever decreasing.

How many of those 10,000 would recommend joining?  How many people that know those 10,000 would recommend or consider joining themselves?  

Many of us here are 2, 3, or more generations of serving.  I wouldn't recommend anyone to enlist or commission.  Would you?

There are 2 parts to a religious accommodation. The first is do you have a sincerely held belief, which actually has been yes more than people think. The second is can the service accommodate it without risking others or negatively impacting service. With the vaccine that part is what is getting denied. Not having it risks those around you and makes you non deployable from big AF perspective. The few approved are mostly people on terminal or teleworking prior to terminal.

Not saying it’s right or wrong but for SA.