COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Sim]

 

  Quote

The COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most manipulated infectious disease events in history, characterized by official lies in an unending stream lead by government bureaucracies, medical associations, medical boards, the media, and international agencies.[3,6,57] We have witnessed a long list of unprecedented intrusions into medical practice, including attacks on medical experts, destruction of medical careers among doctors refusing to participate in killing their patients and a massive regimentation of health care, led by non-qualified individuals with enormous wealth, power and influence.

For the first time in American history a president, governors, mayors, hospital administrators and federal bureaucrats are determining medical treatments based not on accurate scientifically based or even experience based information, but rather to force the acceptance of special forms of care and “prevention”—including remdesivir, use of respirators and ultimately a series of essentially untested messenger RNA vaccines. For the first time in history medical treatment, protocols are not being formulated based on the experience of the physicians treating the largest number of patients successfully, but rather individuals and bureaucracies that have never treated a single patient—including Anthony Fauci, Bill Gates, EcoHealth Alliance, the CDC, WHO, state public health officers and hospital administrators

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/

 

spicy opinion article. 

[Nineline]

Just saw an official looking memorandum signed by 19AF/CC (AETC) directing that those whose religious accommodation request and subsequent appeal denial for the COVID vaccine be immediately grounded.

Furthermore, if the member doesn't request retirement or separation within 5 days of the appeal denial then they will also be immediately suspended from receiving AvIP and any aviation bonus in addition to being grounded.

19AF/CC has already prohibited all TDYs for unvaccinated personnel prior to this new policy.

Apparently the "pilot crisis" can't be too bad if they're willing to cut UPT and FTU production by grounding AETC IPs for refraining from a vaccine that has proven to not be the "miracle vaccine" that it was initially advertised as.

Edited to add: Unvaxxed AETC IPs have been flying the line with and alongside like their vaxxed counterparts for over 6 months now with absolutely no issues whatsover.  There is no logical argument to ground these people from flying while still allowing them to work and sim in close proximity to everyone else.  This policy is completely about power and has zero to do with protecting people or making the workplace safer.

--Break, break--

How come no one is asking why it's been almost a year since the Comrinaty was approved and we still have no FDA approved vaccine available in the U.S.?  Could it be that Pfizer doesn't want to be liable for any lawsuits since they are protected from such under the EUA?  If so, why would they be worried about lawsuits if the vaccine is indeed safe and effective?

-9-

Edited May 20, 2022 by Nineline

[08Dawg]

  On 5/20/2022 at 3:30 AM, Nineline said:

Just saw an official looking memorandum signed by 19AF/CC (AETC) directing that those whose religious accommodation request and subsequent appeal denial for the COVID vaccine be immediately grounded.

Furthermore, if the member doesn't request retirement or separation within 5 days of the appeal denial then they will also be immediately suspended from receiving AvIP and any aviation bonus in addition to being grounded.

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IGs about to have to start putting up those “take a number, currently serving number 69”  things for the flood of complaints about to arrive. 

[Lord Ratner]

  On 5/20/2022 at 3:30 AM, Nineline said:

for refraining from a vaccine that has proven to not be the "miracle vaccine" that it was initially advertised as.

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Indeed. I was (voluntarily) vaccinated with Pfizer on Jun/Jul of last year. Right now I have COVID for the second time, and it's been full COVID, like a bad flu.

 

But this was never about science.

[gearhog]

Pfizer's CEO yesterday:

"Google, what is the largest criminal settlement?"

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=largest+criminal+settlement

[BashiChuni]

covid is going to go down as one of the largest scams in world history.

[BashiChuni]

  On 5/21/2022 at 1:18 AM, Lord Ratner said:

Indeed. I was (voluntarily) vaccinated with Pfizer on Jun/Jul of last year. Right now I have COVID for the second time, and it's been full COVID, like a bad flu.

 

But this was never about science.

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but thankfully you've been vaxed/boosted and your symptoms are mild /s

[Waingro]

  On 5/20/2022 at 3:30 AM, Nineline said:

Just saw an official looking memorandum signed by 19AF/CC (AETC) directing that those whose religious accommodation request and subsequent appeal denial for the COVID vaccine be immediately grounded.

Furthermore, if the member doesn't request retirement or separation within 5 days of the appeal denial then they will also be immediately suspended from receiving AvIP and any aviation bonus in addition to being grounded.

19AF/CC has already prohibited all TDYs for unvaccinated personnel prior to this new policy.

Apparently the "pilot crisis" can't be too bad if they're willing to cut UPT and FTU production by grounding AETC IPs for refraining from a vaccine that has proven to not be the "miracle vaccine" that it was initially advertised as.

Edited to add: Unvaxxed AETC IPs have been flying the line with and alongside like their vaxxed counterparts for over 6 months now with absolutely no issues whatsover.  There is no logical argument to ground these people from flying while still allowing them to work and sim in close proximity to everyone else.  This policy is completely about power and has zero to do with protecting people or making the workplace safer.

--Break, break--

How come no one is asking why it's been almost a year since the Comrinaty was approved and we still have no FDA approved vaccine available in the U.S.?  Could it be that Pfizer doesn't want to be liable for any lawsuits since they are protected from such under the EUA?  If so, why would they be worried about lawsuits if the vaccine is indeed safe and effective?

-9-

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I'll bite. Good.

And let's go into this assuming that the effects of the virus are overblown, and that the vaccine was overpromised and underdelivered. And that this isn't in fact a readiness issue.

All of that aside, a segment of the population decided to ignore a military order. It shouldn't matter if they were first-term Airmen handing out volleyballs, or AETC instructor pilots. Either way, their actions are not compatible with military service in an all-volunteer force. They should be shown the door, honorably. Not punitively. Absolve all ADSCs and bonus repayments, just a quick date of separation and an honorable discharge. Nobody is forced to be here.

[brabus]

@Waingro Cutting off the nose to spite the face is all that is. This wasn’t a refusal to go to war and do their jobs. Leaders and problem solvers don’t blindly think in black and white, but that’s exactly what this line of thought is. “Leaders” who are incapable of critical thought  and just “read the teleprompter” are a bad thing.

[FLEA]

  On 5/21/2022 at 3:38 AM, Waingro said:

I'll bite. Good.

And let's go into this assuming that the effects of the virus are overblown, and that the vaccine was overpromised and underdelivered. And that this isn't in fact a readiness issue.

All of that aside, a segment of the population decided to ignore a military order. It shouldn't matter if they were first-term Airmen handing out volleyballs, or AETC instructor pilots. Either way, their actions are not compatible with military service in an all-volunteer force. They should be shown the door, honorably. Not punitively. Absolve all ADSCs and bonus repayments, just a quick date of separation and an honorable discharge. Nobody is forced to be here.

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Let's take all of the assumptions in your first paragraph to be true, then that order wouldn't be a lawful order because it lacks military neccesity. All orders have to have military neccesity, regardless of the context. 

[Waingro]

  On 5/21/2022 at 3:55 AM, brabus said:

@Waingro Cutting off the nose to spite the face is all that is. This wasn’t a refusal to go to war and do their jobs. Leaders and problem solvers don’t blindly think in black and white, but that’s exactly what this line of thought is. “Leaders” who are incapable of critical thought  and just “read the teleprompter” are a bad thing.

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I don't disagree, but expecting wing leadership to buck a SECDEF directive is some higher-level fantasy thinking. 

[Waingro]

  On 5/21/2022 at 4:06 AM, FLEA said:

Let's take all of the assumptions in your first paragraph to be true, then that order wouldn't be a lawful order because it lacks military neccesity. All orders have to have military neccesity, regardless of the context. 

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That's a pretty high bar to clear. What about off-limits locales in town? Double hearing protection required? Reflective belts? Flu vaccine? Buddy requirements downtown on a TDY? E-4s and below can't drive cars? We have to work on Sundays, my holy day of rest?

That's all really subjective. Ordering a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic doesn't break the noise threshold in terms of military necessity. This vaccine for this virus looks like a gross overreaction in hindsight. Sort of like the anthrax vaccine. Or smallpox for that matter. But here we are, and those who chose to disobey what's pretty plainly a lawful order, should get a handshake, a litho, and a DD-214.

[BashiChuni]

  On 5/21/2022 at 6:46 AM, Waingro said:

That's a pretty high bar to clear. What about off-limits locales in town? Double hearing protection required? Reflective belts? Flu vaccine? Buddy requirements downtown on a TDY? E-4s and below can't drive cars? We have to work on Sundays, my holy day of rest?

That's all really subjective. Ordering a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic doesn't break the noise threshold in terms of military necessity. This vaccine for this virus looks like a gross overreaction in hindsight. Sort of like the anthrax vaccine. Or smallpox for that matter. But here we are, and those who chose to disobey what's pretty plainly a lawful order, should get a handshake, a litho, and a DD-214.

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what about CONTINUING to order a vax that is PROVEN to not be effective?

the military member is NOT protected by taking this vax. how about that?!

this is a pure MONEY GRAB by big pharma....a industry that only a few years ago was the target of the left, but MAGICALLY now is the medical jesus of all leftists and "critical thinkers"

[CaptainMorgan]

  On 5/21/2022 at 3:55 AM, brabus said:

[mention=77334]Waingro[/mention] Cutting off the nose to spite the face is all that is. This wasn’t a refusal to go to war and do their jobs. Leaders and problem solvers don’t blindly think in black and white, but that’s exactly what this line of thought is. “Leaders” who are incapable of critical thought  and just “read the teleprompter” are a bad thing.

Being potentially not deployable to certain locations is an issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BashiChuni]

  On 5/21/2022 at 5:44 PM, CaptainMorgan said:

Being potentially not deployable to certain locations is an issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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doesn't matter the vax has been proven to not work. the requirement should be dropped immediately. if other countries have a problem with that then maybe we shouldn't be "deployed" there in the first place

Edited July 6, 2022 by BashiChuni

[Waingro]

  On 5/21/2022 at 5:03 PM, BashiChuni said:

what about CONTINUING to order a vax that is PROVEN to not be effective?

the military member is NOT protected by taking this vax. how about that?!

this is a pure MONEY GRAB by big pharma....a industry that only a few years ago was the target of the left, but MAGICALLY now is the medical jesus of all leftists and "critical thinkers"

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The strange punctuation and capitalization of random words gives your post somewhat of a National Enquirer feel. Good stuff. 

Anyway, the vaccine has not been proven to lack efficacy. I'm not going to bother asking you to cite a source, because I know you can't. But in the spirit of facts, here's my source.

 

  On 5/21/2022 at 7:48 PM, BashiChuni said:

doesn't matter the vax has been proven to not work. the requirement should be dropped immediately. if other countries have a problem with that then maybe we shouldn't be "deployed" to their in the first place

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You might have a point, wanting the requirement to be dropped. But until they drop it, it's still an order, a lawful one at that. We don't get to cherry-pick which lawful orders we follow. Otherwise we could just call them suggestions. 

And in a strange turn of events, we also don't get to decide what countries we deploy to. I kept telling my last commander that we should deploy to Tahiti, but it fell on deaf ears and we ended up in Afghanistan. 

[Boomer6]

Anyone else at a base that is barring TDYs unless you’re fully vaccinated and boosted?

[Guardian]

Under Secretary of def put a memo out Oct 2021 that didn’t allow tdy’s or personal leave of any service member. Just had to stay in the local area between work and home

[BashiChuni]

  On 5/21/2022 at 11:46 PM, Waingro said:

The strange punctuation and capitalization of random words gives your post somewhat of a National Enquirer feel. Good stuff. 

Anyway, the vaccine has not been proven to lack efficacy. I'm not going to bother asking you to cite a source, because I know you can't. But in the spirit of facts, here's my source.

 

You might have a point, wanting the requirement to be dropped. But until they drop it, it's still an order, a lawful one at that. We don't get to cherry-pick which lawful orders we follow. Otherwise we could just call them suggestions. 

And in a strange turn of events, we also don't get to decide what countries we deploy to. I kept telling my last commander that we should deploy to Tahiti, but it fell on deaf ears and we ended up in Afghanistan. 

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My source is every politician who has gotten COVID and then tweeted thanks for being vaxed I’m not sicker. 

[Lord Ratner]

  On 5/21/2022 at 11:46 PM, Waingro said:

The strange punctuation and capitalization of random words gives your post somewhat of a National Enquirer feel. Good stuff. 

Anyway, the vaccine has not been proven to lack efficacy. I'm not going to bother asking you to cite a source, because I know you can't. But in the spirit of facts, here's my source.

 

You might have a point, wanting the requirement to be dropped. But until they drop it, it's still an order, a lawful one at that. We don't get to cherry-pick which lawful orders we follow. Otherwise we could just call them suggestions. 

And in a strange turn of events, we also don't get to decide what countries we deploy to. I kept telling my last commander that we should deploy to Tahiti, but it fell on deaf ears and we ended up in Afghanistan. 

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Hold up... Define efficacy. Because it was once postulated that the vaccine stopped hospitalizations, deaths, and transmission. In fact when everyone was high on the nearly release vaccine euphoria, 99% effective was often cited.

 

We now know the vaccine has very limited ability to reduce transmission. And the protection against Alpha and Delta have not carried over to omicron in the same way.

 

So yeah, it works, so long as you redefine "works" in a way that no longer has much to do with military necessity.

[Boomer6]

  On 5/22/2022 at 3:07 AM, Guardian said:

Under Secretary of def put a memo out Oct 2021 that didn’t allow tdy’s or personal leave of any service member. Just had to stay in the local area between work and home

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Copy. Obviously, both of those continue to occur. I’m asking if anyone knows of bases that have put increased restrictions, other than the DoD mandates that everyone be fully vaccinated, on members based on their booster status.

[Waingro]

  On 5/22/2022 at 4:01 AM, Lord Ratner said:

Hold up... Define efficacy. Because it was once postulated that the vaccine stopped hospitalizations, deaths, and transmission. In fact when everyone was high on the nearly release vaccine euphoria, 99% effective was often cited.

 

We now know the vaccine has very limited ability to reduce transmission. And the protection against Alpha and Delta have not carried over to omicron in the same way.

 

So yeah, it works, so long as you redefine "works" in a way that no longer has much to do with military necessity.

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Here's the source I cited above showing vaccine efficacy. You can infer from that what you will. I never said I was in favor of vaccine mandates, only that they're pretty plainly lawful orders.

The only argument that I'm putting forth is that if you don't want to follow orders, you should be shown the door, and in this case, without prejudice.

 

[Lord Ratner]

  On 5/22/2022 at 6:50 AM, Waingro said:

Here's the source I cited above showing vaccine efficacy. You can infer from that what you will. I never said I was in favor of vaccine mandates, only that they're pretty plainly lawful orders.

The only argument that I'm putting forth is that if you don't want to follow orders, you should be shown the door, and in this case, without prejudice.

 

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I agree with you entirely there. And I think it's an acceptable middle ground. I think the order is lawful, but exceptionally questionable.

 

Questionable based on the direct impact of COVID to the military demographic (minimal) and the failure of the vaccines to prevent transmission.

[pawnman]

  On 5/22/2022 at 2:33 AM, Boomer6 said:

Anyone else at a base that is barring TDYs unless you’re fully vaccinated and boosted?

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AFROTC won't let cadets do base visits, activate scholarships, commission, or sign contracts after field training if they aren't vaccinated. 

[BashiChuni]

Don’t worry guys biden is cooking up a new monkeypox vax! Just give it some fear and a few weeks/months and you’ll be injecting another mandatory vax