COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Sim]

 

 

[filthy_liar]

What a collossal bucket of America's response to covid turned out to be.  Stores emptied.  Stores closed.  Goya beans the only thing available on the grocery store shelf.  Ammo shortage.  Gun prices through the roof.  Vaccine touted as "just get on board, it will make this all go away."  "Wear your mask.  Social distance."  I realize a lot of you didn't see it because you can't, but a shitload of people didn't get the vaccine, and those that did well, that didn't really stop the spread.  A shitload of people either didn't wear a mask or half assed it.  And a shitload of people didn't social distance.  If any of you went to the coast during memorial day or the 4th in 2020, 21 and 22 you can attest.  So at the end of the day zero point zero of that shit had any effect.  Good god there are a shitload of brainwashed idiots in America.

Edited November 29, 2022 by filthy_liar

[Day Man]

2 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

a shitload of people didn't get the vaccine, and those that did well, that didn't really stop the spread.  A shitload of people either didn't wear a mask or half assed it.  And a shitload of people didn't social distance.  If any of you went to the coast during memorial day or the 4th in 2020, 21 and 22 you can attest.  So at the end of the day zero point zero of that shit had any effect.  Good god there are a shitload of brainwashed idiots in America.

this is...brilliant.

[Pooter]

17 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

What a collossal bucket of America's response to covid turned out to be.  Stores emptied.  Stores closed.  Goya beans the only thing available on the grocery store shelf.  Ammo shortage.  Gun prices through the roof.  Vaccine touted as "just get on board, it will make this all go away."  "Wear your mask.  Social distance."  I realize a lot of you didn't see it because you can't, but a shitload of people didn't get the vaccine, and those that did well, that didn't really stop the spread.  A shitload of people either didn't wear a mask or half assed it.  And a shitload of people didn't social distance.  If any of you went to the coast during memorial day or the 4th in 2020, 21 and 22 you can attest.  So at the end of the day zero point zero of that shit had any effect.  Good god there are a shitload of brainwashed idiots in America.

A little bit of devils advocate here..

It's very difficult to measure something that never happened i.e. the community spread that never occurred as a result of precautions.  So saying "zero point zero" of this had any effect is just nonsense. 
 

We all logically know that precautions have an effect and the more strictly you adhere to them, the more effective they are. If you went full bubble boy and had no contact with anyone for the past two years, you likely would not have caught covid.  We know respirators are better than n95s which are better than surgical masks which are better than cloth masks etc...

So quality and level of adherence to precautions absolutely has an effect. But that isn't the takeaway here. And "precautions didn't do shit" is probably the dumbest takeaway possible. 
 

Maybe the takeaway here is precautions come with a cost which should be weighed against the risk. And since everyone weighs risks and costs differently it should *generally* be left up to the individual. 

[filthy_liar]

4 hours ago, Pooter said:

A little bit of devils advocate here..

It's very difficult to measure something that never happened i.e. the community spread that never occurred as a result of precautions.  So saying "zero point zero" of this had any effect is just nonsense. 
 

We all logically know that precautions have an effect and the more strictly you adhere to them, the more effective they are. If you went full bubble boy and had no contact with anyone for the past two years, you likely would not have caught covid.  We know respirators are better than n95s which are better than surgical masks which are better than cloth masks etc...

So quality and level of adherence to precautions absolutely has an effect. But that isn't the takeaway here. And "precautions didn't do shit" is probably the dumbest takeaway possible. 
 

Maybe the takeaway here is precautions come with a cost which should be weighed against the risk. And since everyone weighs risks and costs differently it should *generally* be left up to the individual. 

Fair enough and well put.  My hyperbolic post is the result of some pent up hostility, some Blanton's single barrel, and access to the internet.  Won't be the last.

Zero point zero effect is like you said nonsense, but I'm still not convinced it had all that much of an effect.  Anecdotal - I got covid about a month after my second vaccine dose, after having skated past it for about 2 years and yes I was one of those people on the beaches every holiday. 

Your last sentence is the most important.

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, filthy_liar said:

Fair enough and well put.  My hyperbolic post is the result of some pent up hostility, some Blanton's single barrel, and access to the internet.  Won't be the last.

Zero point zero effect is like you said nonsense, but I'm still not convinced it had all that much of an effect.  Anecdotal - I got covid about a month after my second vaccine dose, after having skated past it for about 2 years and yes I was one of those people on the beaches every holiday. 

Your last sentence is the most important.

😂 been there. I share the hostility you have mainly for the mandates which look increasingly stupid as time goes on. 

[nsplayr]

Yea it's all cost-benefit analysis and that can be hard to do in real time, at massive national scale, when there's no centralized power to act, etc. Every Monday morning QB who thinks they could have done so much better and also convinced ~330m people to actually do what they recommended is almost certainly kidding themselves. Policy is hard and we should have an effective debrief so we can do better next sortie.

Shit, ask China how their zero-COVID policy is going right now, and their government already exerts WAY more control of their population than ours! All the hyperbolic responses of both the extremely, weirdly cautions public health folks and the hardcore anti-vax, anti-government folks are missing the mark IMHO. Implementing smart, risk-aware precautions is pretty much always a good idea and both individuals and governments at all levels should absolutely be empowered to do that.

At this point though, few anti-COVID measures make sense beyond whatever people want to do voluntarily and encouraging folks to get the vaccines, both against COVID, the flu, RSV, all the things. Each of those is a total bitch...RSV recently worked its way methodically through my entire household and it really sucked for my new baby even though it was fairly mild for the rest of us.

Again, China is super heavy handed on their lockdowns but weirdly only like 25% of their elderly folks are vaccinated against COVID...that's a really stupid policy and the exact opposite of what they should be doing, and people there are starting to get pissed. I'm excited about work that's being done on a pan-flu vaccine building on some of the advances we learned making the COVID vaccines, it will be great to have more weapons against all the respiratory viruses out there.

Despite what a lot of folks here believe, the COVID vaccines were developed super fast and were very effective at preventing COVID deaths, which is great! Hats off to Warp Speed and the people behind those vaccines.

The takeaway from this pandemic absolutely should not be that "precautions didn't make a difference" because like @Pooter said, measuring the counterfactual of "what if we did absolutely nothing" is really hard. There will likely be more pandemics in my lifetime, and I plan on doing the best cost-benefit analysis I can in order to balance staying safe, alive and disease-free with living a free and fun life that's a big part of why being an American is awesome.

Edited November 30, 2022 by nsplayr

[filthy_liar]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

The takeaway from this pandemic absolutely should not be that "precautions didn't make a difference" because like @Pooter said, measuring the counterfactual of "what if we did absolutely nothing" is really hard. There will likely be more pandemics in my lifetime, and I plan on doing the best cost-benefit analysis I can in order to balance staying safe, alive and disease-free with living a free and fun life that's a big part of why being an American is awesome.

 

I concur, but to be clear, that means you have the freedom and liberty to do the best cost-benefit analysis.  That's where we all get sideways on this.  I'm a retiree - hung it up abruptly in 2015 to escape a "very good" deal to the caoc for another year after squadron command.  I understand stepping in line to be a part of the institution. But as I got older there were more and more things that the institution demanded that I scratched my head on.  Fortunately I didn't have to deal with the woke stuff, my biggest one was the AF position that every male was a rapist (remember that?) and so I had to wade through a few of those ugly cases.  I'm sure we're all aware nowadays that not every single female was getting raped, but back then, everyone was. According to the AF.  And those weren't experts brother.  That was AF leadership.  It was the most ed up thing I had ever seen.

Be careful about those experts.  They'll tell you anything.  I was the most expert squadron commander in the CAF, obviously.  I got an awful lot wrong.  And I saw a lot of experts in charge of me get an awful lot wrong.  Humans.

Guard that freedom and the right to think critically and at the end of the day say what the ?  Hell no, you are wrong.  That's gold my friend.

[uhhello]

Two more weeks to flatten the curve here

[Sim]

Oh how quickly we've forgotten..... 

[arg]

I chuckled

 

[kaputt]

LA County is never going to let COVID go. 
 

https://abc7.com/covid-19-indoor-masking-la-county-mask-mandate/12516325/

So glad I don’t live in that shit hole anymore. 

[dream big]

13 hours ago, kaputt said:

LA County is never going to let COVID go. 
 

https://abc7.com/covid-19-indoor-masking-la-county-mask-mandate/12516325/

So glad I don’t live in that shit hole anymore. 

California doing California things. I feel sorry for everyone that lives East of I-5.

[Biff_T]

16 hours ago, kaputt said:

LA County is never going to let COVID go. 
 

https://abc7.com/covid-19-indoor-masking-la-county-mask-mandate/12516325/

So glad I don’t live in that shit hole anymore. 

The real reason they want to bring masks back is it will help cover the stinch of human waste on the streets.   

I'm so glad I'm from OC.  LA is a shit show.  

Edit:  LA is full of idiots.   I've seen LA go from a cool place to visit to a literal shit hole.   There is literally human shit everywhere you go.  Everywhere.   All of the tourists traps smell like shit because homeless people have made CA their toilet.   If they do implement the mask mandate, expect a lot of people to not play along.  LA will continue to decline.   The only thing keeping it alive is the weather and good Mexican food. Politicians have ruined my state.  I wish all of the famous liberals (Hollywood, Pro athletes and etc..) would go back to their home states and share the fxckary with the rest of the country.   

Edited December 2, 2022 by Biff_T

[filthy_liar]

On 11/10/2022 at 12:11 AM, dream big said:

Many of the people I know in these states were quite happy with the draconian measures. Let’s not forget a good chunk of the country is very content with and needs the security blanket provided by the big government, in more ways than one. These are the Karen’s that will scream at your child if their mask falls off their nose. These states get what they deserve - one of the reasons Florida has become so red is that New York ran most of the conservatives out of the state.

That's my view of it, although our analysis and takeaways are probably different.  There is a reason people are quite happy with draconian measures.  Someone earlier typed something to the affect that being controlled makes people feel safe and comfortable and subsequently those people are turned into Kens and Karens to enforce that control because it is now their duty to make sure others are safe and comfortable.  These people do not question the source of the measures, don't think through the logic of the measures, and certainly don't question whether or not there is an agenda tied to the measures.  

Covid was a very ugly full up display of this.  The question is why are people like this?  This is where I likely part ways with most of the folks on this forum.  I see manifestations of this all the time, in every aspect of life.  

HOAs immediately come to mind.  Like good little citizens, they are named covenants instead of mandates.  And god help you of a Ken or Karen catches you violating one.  I cannot imagine living like that in a country where you don't have to.  In the public school system they are named guidelines or charters instead of mandates.  Woe unto the person that uses the wrong door, turns the wrong way in the car line, asks to go directly to the student's classroom to talk to a teacher, or any other number of government mandates that serve no useful purpose.

This is the why according to a filthy liar.  And this is where I part company with most everyone on this forum.  We used to be pioneers.  That's an important word - pioneer.  We used to push west and deal with everything on our own, or at least as much as a wagon train could handle.  There were all kinds of threats.  But there was no government to save the wagon train.  Then we built communities, institutions, and started relying on a centralized agency to oversee these types of things and to provide essential services.  Then we REALLY started relying on this centralized agency to make sure things were available.  Little things, like say - food and water.  We somehow figured that this was the best path forward.  And now we find ourselves in a situation where 85% of us are not even semi self-sufficient and in a situation where we depend on that centralized agency. 

So when that agency starts taking draconian measures, it is perceived by many of that 85% as not only necessary, but moral to preserve the community.  And they would be dead if the grocery store ran out of food. I take a different path, and yes I realize that I'm one of those weird people who live out in the woods.  But I don't depend on the government for much, especially on what to do to protect myself.  Mask mandates, grocery store quotas, vaccine requirements, etc are ludicrous to me and everyone out here where I live.  Again, not expecting everyone to be a weirdo and live out in the woods and be self-sufficient like me, but that is my explanation for the eagerness for some of the 85% to adopt draconian measures.

Final disclaimer - I know we're not in the 1800s and plenty of intelligent people choose to live in the city and burbs.  In fact, most of them do.  But when something bad happens I don't need the draconian measures or heavy government overstep that they might.  That's important to me.

[arg]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mccarthy-vows-military-vaccine-mandate-end-national-defense-bill-wont-move-forward

[FUSEPLUG]

The rumbling on this has been growing over the last week. It’s interesting to see both sides of the MSM picking up on it. 

On a side note - it’s been one year to the day since I last put on the uniform because of this mandate (no pay/no points Guard guy). While I’m not holding my breath, it does appear some sanity may be returning to our overlords. 

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, FUSEPLUG said:

The rumbling on this has been growing over the last week. It’s interesting to see both sides of the MSM picking up on it. 

On a side note - it’s been one year to the day since I last put on the uniform because of this mandate (no pay/no points Guard guy). While I’m not holding my breath, it does appear some sanity may be returning to our overlords. 

I don't foresee it happening. We've had government shutdowns before but I don't see Republicans risking the blame for this one on the vaccine. Im not happy about the vaccine mandate but I don't see this changing whole Biden is in office. 

 

 

[kaputt]

The biggest issue is not the people currently in, it’s recruiting. My IMA gig has an Army Guard guy, and he said in his unit the biggest issue is finding 18-22 year olds that have or are willing to get the vaccine. 
 

It doesn’t matter political leanings, upbringing, socio-economic level, potential officer or enlisted, etc…; not that many young people want to get the vaccine at this point. 

[Sim]

 

[Guardian]

Wow. There’s common sense left in this country. That a pandemic of the vaccinated might no longer be forced upon the fighting men and women is a huge win.

[tac airlifter]

When a judge struck down the justification for masks on airplanes, no ensuing additional wave of illness ravaged the country as was predicted by “experts.” This anecdote alone is proof that we must terminate all COVID-19 related health mandates. It’s time for them all to go. I can’t believe we are still wearing masks in the clinic on base, utter foolishness.  

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

When a judge struck down the justification for masks on airplanes, no ensuing additional wave of illness ravaged the country as was predicted by “experts.” This anecdote alone is proof that we must terminate all COVID-19 related health mandates. It’s time for them all to go. I can’t believe we are still wearing masks in the clinic on base, utter foolishness.  

TBH I think wearing mask in a clinic actually makes since and probably should stick. Not just COVID, but really healthcare facilities are places sick people conjugate. Mask are effective with some types of illness. 

I would like to see our culture change a bit where people do start wearing mask when they have the sniffles and work centers become more tolerant of sick leave. I'm tired of this societal nonsense that you should tough it out when you're sick and go to work spewing snot everywhere. Not talking military here but mainstream society. 

Everywhere else though.... Yeah get rid of it. 

[Biff_T]

At this point the mask seems more like the equivalent of a Nazi armband than a safety precaution.  If you don't wear one, they know you're not on their team.   

Mask up LA!!!  Lol

 

[nsplayr]

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

TBH I think wearing mask in a clinic actually makes since and probably should stick. Not just COVID, but really healthcare facilities are places sick people conjugate. Mask are effective with some types of illness. 

I would like to see our culture change a bit where people do start wearing mask when they have the sniffles and work centers become more tolerant of sick leave. I'm tired of this societal nonsense that you should tough it out when you're sick and go to work spewing snot everywhere. Not talking military here but mainstream society. 

Everywhere else though.... Yeah get rid of it. 

Yes, 100% agree with this. Masks help stop the spread of a lot of respiratory illnesses…it’s partly why they’ve been worn in medical settings for decades!

Everything @FLEA said above is totally reasonable.

3 hours ago, Biff_T said:

At this point the mask seems more like the equivalent of a Nazi armband than a safety precaution.  If you don't wear one, they know you're not on their team.   

Mask up LA!!!  Lol

Then again there are people like this who seem to think people voluntarily choosing to wear masks makes them Nazis 🙄

I don’t wear a mask except where required (many but not all medical facilities it seems like) and rarely see others wearing masks in Tennessee…but if folks want to by all means go for it!

It does not affect me in any way whatsoever and I make no real judgements either way. People that don’t share that mentality at this point I think are clearly in the wrong.

Edited December 7, 2022 by nsplayr