COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[brabus]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gen-petraeus-ukraine-military-readiness-priorities-ndaa-vax-mandate-outrage-manufactured
 

Somebody’s getting kickbacks from pharma…

[GKinnear]

9 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

 And I wish you never flew on the B-1.

C'mon bro...don't descend into ad hominem / personal attacks.  We're better than that.

If there's a joke that I missed in your post, please excuse me while I go yell at some clouds.

[GKinnear]

22 hours ago, pawnman said:

That second part was my point. We accept a whole lot of mandates. But somehow wearing a mask in a hospital is where it becomes tyranny. 

To me the tyranny is not wearing a mask in the hospital.

The tyranny is the process by which that decision was made and the lack of pubic discourse going forward.

As soon as someone questioned the necessity, there was an immediate backlash to shutdown any conversation.  No attempt at increasing the understanding on both side, just "I'm in charge and you're going to do it or else."  Not an effective leadership style in the USAF (most of the time), and certainly not in a free society where the lawmakers and policy deciders are in theory answerable to the voting public.

Wear your mask, I really don't care, but be honest that most decisions regarding the perma-pandemic and mask mandates seem to have a strong political bent to them.

Again, you may see it differently, and that's ok...just as long as we can still have a civil discourse as a country about it.

[di1630]

My base is requiring masks again. Dumb as fooook

[Biff_T]

11 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

I don't accept a whole lot of mandates.  And that makes me a weirdo.  And that's too bad. You have demonstrated over and over that you love mandates.  You are bringing them out of the woodwork.  You love mandates, they make you feel comfortable.......

[pawnman]

13 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

I don't accept a whole lot of mandates.  And that makes me a weirdo.  And that's too bad. You have demonstrated over and over that you love mandates.  You are bringing them out of the woodwork.  You love mandates, they make you feel comfortable.  I wish they didn't.  I wish you still had an ounce of pioneering blood in you.  I wish you still had a fighting spirit.  And I wish you never flew on the B-1.

And I wish you'd never joined this forum, but here we are. 

Have fun driving drunk with no seatbelt. 

[Lockjaw]

11 hours ago, pawnman said:

Have fun driving drunk with no seatbelt. 

Look man, I agree the ad hominem was uncalled for (as it is in any environment).

But your comparison is BS. Have you ever seen a seatbelt disclaimer in an automobile manual, warning people that it may not protect them in a collision? Have you ever seen an alcoholic beverage container tell people that driving after drinking it is just fine?

Because here's the thing. Any surgical mask container you pick up ever since it became popular post COVID has a disclaimer about how it is not tested to protect against COVID 19 on the side.

I'll say it again. If you want to mask up, go for it. The evidence for it is...not great. Therefore, it should not be mandated in normal medical settings in view of its downsides for medical treatment and communication.

[uhhello]

22 minutes ago, Lockjaw said:

Look man, I agree the ad hominem was uncalled for (as it is in any environment).

But your comparison is BS. Have you ever seen a seatbelt disclaimer in an automobile manual, warning people that it may not protect them in a collision? Have you ever seen an alcoholic beverage container tell people that driving after drinking it is just fine?

Because here's the thing. Any surgical mask container you pick up ever since it became popular post COVID has a disclaimer about how it is not tested to protect against COVID 19 on the side.

I'll say it again. If you want to mask up, go for it. The evidence for it is...not great. Therefore, it should not be mandated in normal medical settings in view of its downsides for medical treatment and communication.

We're years into this thing and people still don't understand why the medical/govt/and everyone else want you to wear a mask.  It's not for your protection.  It's to REDUCE transmission of the virus.  I hate wearing the thing and think it's pretty pointless at this stage.  I've made a few trips to the VA hospital lately and have no issue wearing it inside there.  

[Lawman]

We're years into this thing and people still don't understand why the medical/govt/and everyone else want you to wear a mask.  It's not for your protection.  It's to REDUCE transmission of the virus.  I hate wearing the thing and think it's pretty pointless at this stage.  I've made a few trips to the VA hospital lately and have no issue wearing it inside there.  

Bro how long have you spent in the employee of the government. The government acting has as much to do with appearing to be making an impact as actually making any impact. In fact it’s probably more the first one and if it happens to be impactful, bonus points.

There is no doubt that wearing the RIGHT mask does actually make a measurable impact on you or any other possible vector spreading your nasty into the Gen pop. Problem is the right mask wasn’t what we sent people out with. Anything short of fishnets was pretty much accepted… and now you have a mass group of people with the feeling of “I have a mask so it’s cool” going out and interacting to plus up that size group because hey the government said it’s ok.

Likewise how many people did you see wearing latex gloves. That works…. If you’re stripping gloves between movement and interaction. If you wear those gloves continuously (every gate guard I’ve interacted with) you actually increase the places you spread virus because it has a longer life on that glove than it does in your bare skin. That was actually a point brought to the post commander by our infectious disease OIC (friend of mine). Obviously the guy with a medical degree doesn’t know anything a star knows, so we just ignored it and the gate guards are still wearing them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TreeA10]

Ineffective masks poorly fiitted and gloves worn continuously throughout the day will stop the virus!  What's next? Sacrificing virgins in volcanoes to stop earthquakes? Maybe chopping heads off to honor the gods to make the rain fall. A stupid person is scary, am ignorant mob is dangerous. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by TreeA10

[waveshaper]

37 minutes ago, TreeA10 said:

What's next? Sacrificing virgins in volcanoes to stop earthquakes? Maybe chopping heads off to honor the gods to make the train fall. A stupid person is scary, am ignorant mob is dangerous. 

What's next/one more: I'm surprised they aren't mandating vaccinating fetuses (babies) before they abort them.

 

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, Lockjaw said:

Look man, I agree the ad hominem was uncalled for (as it is in any environment).

But your comparison is BS. Have you ever seen a seatbelt disclaimer in an automobile manual, warning people that it may not protect them in a collision? Have you ever seen an alcoholic beverage container tell people that driving after drinking it is just fine?

Because here's the thing. Any surgical mask container you pick up ever since it became popular post COVID has a disclaimer about how it is not tested to protect against COVID 19 on the side.

I'll say it again. If you want to mask up, go for it. The evidence for it is...not great. Therefore, it should not be mandated in normal medical settings in view of its downsides for medical treatment and communication.

Seatbelts are mandated. People wearing seatbelts have still died in car accidents. 

He said he wasn't a fan of any mandates. We can argue the merits of wearing a mask in a hospital if you want, but his statement that he hated all mandates seems a bit silly for someone in a profession built on safety rules like aviation. 

[Lockjaw]

4 hours ago, pawnman said:

Seatbelts are mandated. People wearing seatbelts have still died in car accidents.  

Yup, tracking. That said, the data is convincing that seatbelts significantly reduce the possibility of people from being thrown about like rag dolls in a significant car accident/rollover. Do they fail occasionally? Yes. Do people who wear them still die because of other factors? Yes. Been to a lot of accidents. Still haven't seen a vehicle come with a disclaimer that the restraining devices "will not provide any protection."

13 hours ago, uhhello said:

I hate wearing the thing and think it's pretty pointless at this stage.  I've made a few trips to the VA hospital lately and have no issue wearing it inside there.  

If you hate wearing the thing and think it's pointless...why are you fine with mandatory usage in one particular environment? I'm honestly curious, I'm not trying to be a smartass.

I'll reiterate: N95s are effective against airborne infections, but they need to be properly fitted and used once. Medical gloves or Tyvek suits aren't used more than once - and there are good reasons for that. 

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, Lockjaw said:

Yup, tracking. That said, the data is convincing that seatbelts significantly reduce the possibility of people from being thrown about like rag dolls in a significant car accident/rollover. Do they fail occasionally? Yes. Do people who wear them still die because of other factors? Yes. Been to a lot of accidents. Still haven't seen a vehicle come with a disclaimer that the restraining devices "will not provide any protection."

If you hate wearing the thing and think it's pointless...why are you fine with mandatory usage in one particular environment? I'm honestly curious, I'm not trying to be a smartass.

I'll reiterate: N95s are effective against airborne infections, but they need to be properly fitted and used once. Medical gloves or Tyvek suits aren't used more than once - and there are good reasons for that. 

A proper surgical mask of the type given out at entrances to VA hospitals aren't "useless" in the right situations such as at hospitals where fellow humans go with weakened immune systems.  Again, the mask isn't to protect the wearer, its to lessen the transmission possibilities.  My useless comment was out in the general public going about everyday life where you still see people wearing simple cloth masks or bandanas.  

[Lockjaw]

18 hours ago, uhhello said:

A proper surgical mask of the type given out at entrances to VA hospitals aren't "useless" in the right situations such as at hospitals where fellow humans go with weakened immune systems.  Again, the mask isn't to protect the wearer, its to lessen the transmission possibilities.  My useless comment was out in the general public going about everyday life where you still see people wearing simple cloth masks or bandanas.  

You are aware that the CDC itself stated that 10 Randomized Controlled Trials from 1946-2018 found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks?

[BashiChuni]

I THOUGHT JOE BIDEN SAID ON 60 MINUTES “THE PANDEMIC IS OVER!?”

[HeloDude]

If you’re for seatbelt mandates and not for banning motorcycles then your hypocrisy is showing.  And last I checked, you can still wear a seatbelt even if the government didn’t make it punishable by law if you don’t wear one.

[Pooter]

10 hours ago, Lockjaw said:

You are aware that the CDC itself stated that 10 Randomized Controlled Trials from 1946-2018 found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks?

And yet the CDC now says masks are effective. Maybe they have new data? Could it possibly be related to the fact that the material in n95 masks wasn't invented until the 1990s so your data from last century is basically ballwash? Or do you just selectively believe the CDC when it suits you. 

[brabus]

Plenty of data from the last two years of studies showing masks are not effective at any reasonable rate WRT to Covid; unless you consider single digit percentages (cloth) “effective”. Surgical masks are somewhere in the teens to 30s. N95 is the only thing that’s marginally useful, and that’s really only if worn correctly and used one time then disposed (which almost nobody actually does). The CDC has no credibility. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by brabus

[SpeedOfHeat]

On 12/14/2022 at 12:14 PM, uhhello said:

Again, the mask isn't to protect the wearer, its to lessen the transmission possibilities.

The transmission possibilities are zero if you don't have COVID in the first place.  Which describes the overwhelming majority of humans on the planet right now. 

The evidence for asymptomatic transmission is extremely shaky.

Healthy people without any symptoms should not be forced to wear masks.  It's stupid.  We need to snap out of this nonsense.

If someone is symptomatic, I agree that it's wise/considerate to wear a mask, as they've done in Asian cultures for a long time.  Or if someone has been in direct, prolonged contact with someone who's symptomatic, again, go for it.  Makes sense.

But universial mask mandates and guidelines for everyone are issued for one reason:  simplicity.  The guidance above is, sadly and unfortunately, too nuanced for the masses.  So they make it one-size-fits-all.  Just treat everyone as if they're infected, even though the reality is that only a miniscule percentage actually are.

Edited December 16, 2022 by SpeedOfHeat

[Lockjaw]

18 hours ago, Pooter said:

And yet the CDC now says masks are effective. Maybe they have new data? Could it possibly be related to the fact that the material in n95 masks wasn't invented until the 1990s so your data from last century is basically ballwash? Or do you just selectively believe the CDC when it suits you. 

Well I mean considering the last RCT quoted was conducted in 2018...I don't think it's ballwash. But hey man, you do you. Also, I'm not deliberately being picky, but the N95 is technically considered a respirator, and the studies were mainly looking at surgical style masks. I'll reiterate what I've said - N95s when properly fitted, properly worn, and used once, are helpful. If you don't do any or all of that, your protection will be substantially less.

And no, I don't selectively believe - but my trust in the CDC has gone down the tubes since Summer 2020. I am calling attention to the fact that we went from over 70 years of data showing "this doesn't work," to "this works, but only against this one new virus," to then "this works against every respiratory virus," in the span of less than 3 years, with hardly any RCTs conducted to prove it. Correlation is not causation. I think we've all seen enough "experts" be proven wrong recently, yet instead of showing humility when the data is inconclusive or shows otherwise, simply dig in their heels more, because it's 2022 - and experts can never be wrong these days.

[arg]

I better be more careful. Us unvaxed are a bunch of loose cannons.

https://fortune.com/well/2022/12/13/covid-unvaccinated-greater-risk-car-crash-traffic-accident-new-study-says-canada-government-records-pfizer-moderna/amp/

[Biff_T]

1 minute ago, arg said:

I better be more careful. Us unvaxed are a bunch of loose cannons.

https://fortune.com/well/2022/12/13/covid-unvaccinated-greater-risk-car-crash-traffic-accident-new-study-says-canada-government-records-pfizer-moderna/amp/

There's a new study out that those who received the vaccine are now immune to cancer.  Also, they found out that for some reason the vaccine will also fix check engine lights on your car, feed the dog when you're away from home and provide you with unimaginable wealth.  There are 100s of things the vaccine will help with (to include being a safer driver) except for preventing the spread of covid. 

[filthy_liar]

On 12/13/2022 at 6:40 AM, GKinnear said:

C'mon bro...don't descend into ad hominem / personal attacks.  We're better than that.

If there's a joke that I missed in your post, please excuse me while I go yell at some clouds.

It's the internet.  ad hominem attacks are authorized.  And using the phrase ad hominem makes it look like you don't know the definition of a new latin word.  Just say "personal attacks."

Have you seen what that cat has posted?  I'm definitely sad that he flew B-1s.  We have some great people in that community.  Hopefully he hasn't been running around the community poisoning the Lts with his takes on the merits of mandates, article 15s and such.

[Blue]

A year ago today, I was promised a Winter of Severe Illness and Death for the unvaccinated.

Still waiting.

Quote

For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. 
 
But there’s good news: If you’re vaccinated and you had your booster shot, you’re protected from severe illness and death — period. 
 
Number two, booster shots work. 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by Blue