COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[GKinnear]

14 hours ago, filthy_liar said:

It's the internet.  ad hominem attacks are authorized.  And using the phrase ad hominem makes it look like you don't know the definition of a new latin word.  Just say "personal attacks."

Have you seen what that cat has posted?  I'm definitely sad that he flew B-1s.  We have some great people in that community.  Hopefully he hasn't been running around the community poisoning the Lts with his takes on the merits of mandates, article 15s and such.

I'll "happy to glad" the word choice to "allowed" vs. "authorized",  but it also appears that you've run out of arguments to make.  That's just one man's opinion though.

Your input on the use of ad hominem has been noted, thoughtfully considered, and rejected.  Seems like a pedantic argument to make to try and shift blame from the previously mentioned no-value added statement.

Last point, since this is an internet argument, there are no winners in this fight...you do you, boo.

[filthy_liar]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:27 AM, GKinnear said:

I'll "happy to glad" the word choice to "allowed" vs. "authorized",  but it also appears that you've run out of arguments to make.  That's just one man's opinion though.

Your input on the use of ad hominem has been noted, thoughtfully considered, and rejected.  Seems like a pedantic argument to make to try and shift blame from the previously mentioned no-value added statement.

Last point, since this is an internet argument, there are no winners in this fight...you do you, boo.

Ran out of arguments = valid.  Have you seen these arguments?  Pedantic...there you go again.  Just call it a drawn out argument. I think you lost sight that I was no longer interested in making an argument, but rather flaming a caustic shit head, because its the internet.  Don't say "you do you, boo" to a dude.  I'm not woke, and its not ok to say that to another dude.  You are ing weird.

[pawnman]

On 12/16/2022 at 6:50 PM, filthy_liar said:

It's the internet.  ad hominem attacks are authorized.  And using the phrase ad hominem makes it look like you don't know the definition of a new latin word.  Just say "personal attacks."

Have you seen what that cat has posted?  I'm definitely sad that he flew B-1s.  We have some great people in that community.  Hopefully he hasn't been running around the community poisoning the Lts with his takes on the merits of mandates, article 15s and such.

Ah, I love you too. 

[Lord Ratner]

On 12/20/2022 at 7:45 PM, filthy_liar said:

Don't say "you do you, boo" to a dude.  I'm not woke, and its not ok to say that to another dude.  You are ing weird.

You're putting off some major anti-gay-minister-who-secretly-hires-male-prostitutes vibes.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Lord Ratner

[uhhello]

1 minute ago, Lord Ratner said:

You're putting off some major anti-gay-minister-who-secretly-hires-male-prostitutes vibes.

Hah, brilliant

[StoleIt]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/president-regulate-travel-china-after-he-called-trump-xenophobic

Pot, meet kettle.

[brabus]

58 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

Pot, meet kettle.

Or how Biden and company touts climate change as so important, but then he decides to fly to St Croix for vacation the day prior to the omnibus bill ready for his sig, which then necessitates another jet fly the bill down to St Croix so he could sign it there. He and the dems give zero fucks about climate change, they care about consolidating power and control (and money).

[BashiChuni]

covid and climate change are power grabs of enormous scale

 

[gearhog]

F'n Finally.

DoD rescinds vaccine mandate.

[FUSEPLUG]

Grate spell check in the very last sentence. I’d expect nothing less from the POS who shoved this mandate down our throats for the last year and a half. 

[SocialD]

Man I hope this is legit! The dumb fucks a Luke stopped one of my guys less that was aweek or two from finishing the B-Course. Now, "saving those 6-9 rides," will cost the AF an entire B-Course, and then some. Instead of spending the last 2 years honing his skills as a fighter pilot, he's been languishing...waiting on our "leaders" to stop making the wrong decision.  

Edited January 11, 2023 by SocialD

[dream big]

6 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said:

Grate spell check in the very last sentence. I’d expect nothing less from the POS who shoved this mandate down our throats for the last year and a half. 

The same POS that embarrassed the U.S. on the international stage with our humiliating withdrawal from Afghanistan and still has a job. Too busy making extremism in the military videos. 

[Standby]

“The Department's COVID-19 vaccination efforts will leave a lasting legacy…”

I bet it will, and I’m sure we have not yet seen the ramifications of such efforts. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Standby

[kaputt]

Three years later and this horseshit is still going on. What’s even more hilarious is it’s “regardless of vaccination status”. Also very fitting that you can’t leave a comment on the post. 
 

2 weeks to stop the spread. 

[tac airlifter]

Never should have been a mandate.  I will never forget all the COVID psychos within our ranks and the massive damage they caused; they were pushing a mandatory booster so hard but thank God that didn’t become policy.  What a tragic episode in DOD.  There must be accountability or we’ll never recover legitimacy.

[Biff_T]

When I was in, the "yes" men (men- genderless humanoids for sensitive people) seemed to push whatever shit came their way.  There was very little push back (if any), even if the tasker was ridiculous and there weren't enough bodies to fly and plan tea parties.  Regardless of how stupid the tasking was.  If leadership said so, then we must do it.  No questions asked.  More often than not, they seemed more excited to do meaningless taskers than to fly a low level NVG formation sortie in the mountains (fun tasking lol).  Bronze stars for the power point warriors!  

The kind of humanoids that like to punish you for not wearing a reflective belt during the invasion of a sovereign country, are the same breed of leaders who were on the Covid vaccine patrol.  Good thing the Iraqis didn't see us without our reflective belts!  

Good leadership looks after their people. They don't try to fck them over every chance they get.  Leadership 101.  

Nothing quite like getting Chiefed after flying for 30 days straight following the Mar 20, 2003 invasion. It's like they had no idea that we were invading a sovereign country, they were just infatuated with making you wear that reflective belt to the chow hall. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Biff_T
Than

[FLEA]

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-leana-wen-slammed-admitting-theres-been-overcounting-covid-deaths-two-half-years-late

 

Its like people sat on the train tracks for 2 years watching a train coming at them in slow motion and just said it was going to be ok over and over. Now they are realizing they are about to be hit by a train and they are scared and want accountability? 

Like good lord, I can go back in this thread to 2020 and see people talking about this exact topic. It was well known hospitals received additional federal funding based on "how bad" the COVID pandemic appeared to hit their facilities and associating deaths with COVID was the best way to secure more grants. 

[SocialD]

17 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Never should have been a mandate.  I will never forget all the COVID psychos within our ranks and the massive damage they caused; they were pushing a mandatory booster so hard but thank God that didn’t become policy.  What a tragic episode in DOD.  There must be accountability or we’ll never recover legitimacy.

 

 

Some of these psychos are on this very forum.  They were cheering/hoping all those against covid shots would have their careers ruined and/or booted from the military.  I hope I can get our guy back to training in time to give a big fuck you to any of his former CCs who treated him like a piece of shit when they pulled him from the B-Course with a few rides to go.  I'm also hoping the government is force to back pay him, though I'm not holding my breath. 

 

I have absolutely zero confidence that there will be much accountability for the stupid decisions made over the last few years.  Fuck, even the memo states it only protects those "currently in the military."  I'd imagine that some lawsuits will follow and some may get back in (though I'm not sure why they'd want to) or at least get some form of payout.  

 

 

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-leana-wen-slammed-admitting-theres-been-overcounting-covid-deaths-two-half-years-late

Its like people sat on the train tracks for 2 years watching a train coming at them in slow motion and just said it was going to be ok over and over. Now they are realizing they are about to be hit by a train and they are scared and want accountability? 

Like good lord, I can go back in this thread to 2020 and see people talking about this exact topic. It was well known hospitals received additional federal funding based on "how bad" the COVID pandemic appeared to hit their facilities and associating deaths with COVID was the best way to secure more grants. 

 

 

This is my shocked face...  But holy hell, a few years ago, you didn't want to be the guy who even hinted at this.  "You clearly don't follow the science!"  "...why do you want to kill my kids/parents?!?!!??!?"  

How many people did we kill via depression because of the lockdowns?  Maybe it didn't make blimp on the chart, but it might be an interesting stat to see.  

Edited January 14, 2023 by SocialD

[Biff_T]

1 hour ago, SocialD said:

How many people did we kill via depression because of the lockdowns?  Maybe it didn't make blimp on the chart, but it might be an interesting stat to see.  

It wasn't It depression, it was Covid. 

I know because I use the word Science when I can't explain something or I simply don't want the truth to be told because it goes against what my team believes.  

It was Covid - Science

Changing definitions - Science 

Woman who support women's rights but she can't define what a woman is - Science 

You can only be racist if you're white - Science  (btw, I'm not racist I know a lot of white people)

Life begins when we say so - Science 

I like Science.  These guys (sexless humanoids) need to quit abusing that word.  

[brabus]

@FLEA I remember summer 2020 talking about these aspects of Covid - it’s amazing how so many people said I (and others like me with critical thinking capability) we’re out to lunch, dangerous, etc. Complete silence from those same people who have been proven 100% wrong. I don’t hold grudges, so whatever, but I’ll still remember how some individuals in my life were horrendously wrong, shit on those who disagreed, and have made zero acknowledgment about it. Says something about their character. 

[Negatory]

12 hours ago, brabus said:

@FLEA I remember summer 2020 talking about these aspects of Covid - it’s amazing how so many people said I (and others like me with critical thinking capability) we’re out to lunch, dangerous, etc. Complete silence from those same people who have been proven 100% wrong. I don’t hold grudges, so whatever, but I’ll still remember how some individuals in my life were horrendously wrong, shit on those who disagreed, and have made zero acknowledgment about it. Says something about their character. 

Nah bro, says that you oversimplify things significantly into right or wrong, black or white. You have become what you criticize, and you all wonder why folks stopped commenting back. The forum turned significantly more into an echo chamber the last year, which has been nice for you guys, but doesn’t necessarily represent reality.

We all, right now, have the benefit of knowledge we did not have when decisions were being made. Your debrief choice (i can’t really call it a loop) is that we all made and then executed the wrong decisions in the beginning of the pandemic, and that “we” have doubled and tripled down and screeched the entire time. But in reality we as a society had very limited SA or perception of what the actual truth of the situation was until science uncovered some of those answers. It took months to years for that. And, you seem to forget, we had to operate and make decisions in that limited SA environment. You can’t put the big arrow on a decision when your SA is super low. The ends don’t justify the means. I believed, and will continue to believe, you 100% did not have the SA in the Summer of 2020.

For example, we now know mRNA vaccines are entirely ineffective at stopping transmission - we were hopeful they would be very effective. Didn’t know that. We now know that we’re looking at a significantly lower mortality variant with significantly higher spread - the first variant spread slower but had a mortality rate about 10 times higher pre-vaccine. Didn’t know when that was coming. We know that COVID is airborne. Didn’t know that, remember folks sanitizing everything? We know how to test for it, and we know generally how long folks are contagious. We understand mortality risks much more completely now (fat and old). We did not know any of these things with significant certainty for a long time.

You’ll also note that many folks on here changed our minds on many policies as more data emerged. As folks got vaccinated and mortality decreased and transmission reduction efforts clearly failed, many folks like me changed our opinions. We built SA and made decisions with said SA. You can demonize that, if you want, but it’s a pretty rough take.

If your point is that in the absence of proof, we should be optimistic, fine, that’s your philosophy. But it doesn’t mean those that wanted to be conservative in the face of unknowns are inherently wrong and/or evil. In fact, you literally can’t prove that those efforts didn’t save significant lives (bang your head against the wall on that one, if you want).

For the record, I think that masks and vaccine requirements now should be entirely removed in society with the exception of elderly care or hospitals. We should have gotten rid of it over a year ago for the military. There is more nuance to how decisions have to be made and opinions should be formed than you give credit.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Negatory

[brabus]

14 minutes ago, Negatory said:

But in reality we as a society had very limited SA or perception of what the actual truth of the situation was until science uncovered some of those answers. It took months to years for that. And, you seem to forget, we had to operate and make decisions in that limited SA environment

And that’s the excuse you tell yourself to feel better. Despite this entire reply I disagree with, I will give credit to you changing your viewpoints over time. I am not including you personally (I know we had several back and forth in the past) in my above comment. In fact, you are the opposite of the people I described. 
 

To you’re overarching statement that it was pure guessing optimism with no info (paraphrasing), completely disagree. It was critical thinking based on observation, data (yes there was data that was rapidly coming out by summer, but it was suppressed heavily), and unemotional/logical thought process. Throughout the first 2 years tens of millions of people called it 100% time and again, they were labeled all sorts of things. No, it is not logical for you to argue all of them had no SA and just got lucky that they were completely right, it is logical they executed as stated above and everyone else made errors in judgement (trusted garbage lies, illogical arguments, etc.), thought processes, and allowed emotion to rule over logic. Zero stones cast at those who came around and acknowledged what had transpired. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by brabus

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

And, you seem to forget, we had to operate and make decisions in that limited SA environment. You can’t put the big arrow on a decision when your SA is super low. The ends don’t justify the means. I believed, and will continue to believe, you 100% did not have the SA in the Summer of 2020.

You and I have agreed and disagreed on a lot, and I commended your ability to change your mind. But this part gets to the crux of the issue, and why I think your assessment is so wrong.

 

The ability to make decisions in an environment of incomplete information is quite literally definitive of intelligence and leadership. There's a whole lot of people right now throwing their hands up in the air and saying " well we just didn't know," but that's bullshit. Part of the job is not knowing, and being able to accurately assess and communicate that lack of knowledge, and recognize that without perfect information, your ability to compel others should be equally limited.

 

This is foundational stuff to the way our government was designed and is supposed to work.

 

The "experts" lied. Flat out. I'm including using intentionally misleading language. There are plenty of examples in this thread.

 

But worse than lying about things they knew (to cover their asses), they lied about what they didn't know. They did so because they knew we-the-people wouldn't have done what they commanded if it was based on a hunch. But it was, and unfortunately (as any real scientist would admit) when you act on a hunch, you'll be wrong more often than not.

 

So the point isn't "we would have done things differently if we had better information." The point is "will we do things differently the next time we have a crisis with little available information?"

 

Based on the experts skittering like cockroaches into the shadows to avoid responsibility, and a whole bunch of well-meaning Americans seeking to look the other way because their "team" was the one that got it so incredibly wrong, I'm not sure we've learned much at all.

 

Maybe when the 2018-2019 babies hit their teenage years, and we see the devastation wrought by depriving them of the irreplaceable socialization training needed between the ages of 2-4, we will have that conversation. 

 

But saying "hey, you didn't know anything either, we were all in the dark" doesn't cut it. How you act in the dark is what matters... (giggity).

 

Again, not directed specifically at you, but I think you're missing the point. It's not that they were wrong, it's what they forced us to do while they were (knowingly) wrong.

[FLEA]

8 hours ago, Negatory said:

Nah bro, says that you oversimplify things significantly into right or wrong, black or white. You have become what you criticize, and you all wonder why folks stopped commenting back. The forum turned significantly more into an echo chamber the last year, which has been nice for you guys, but doesn’t necessarily represent reality.

We all, right now, have the benefit of knowledge we did not have when decisions were being made. Your debrief choice (i can’t really call it a loop) is that we all made and then executed the wrong decisions in the beginning of the pandemic, and that “we” have doubled and tripled down and screeched the entire time. But in reality we as a society had very limited SA or perception of what the actual truth of the situation was until science uncovered some of those answers. It took months to years for that. And, you seem to forget, we had to operate and make decisions in that limited SA environment. You can’t put the big arrow on a decision when your SA is super low. The ends don’t justify the means. I believed, and will continue to believe, you 100% did not have the SA in the Summer of 2020.

For example, we now know mRNA vaccines are entirely ineffective at stopping transmission - we were hopeful they would be very effective. Didn’t know that. We now know that we’re looking at a significantly lower mortality variant with significantly higher spread - the first variant spread slower but had a mortality rate about 10 times higher pre-vaccine. Didn’t know when that was coming. We know that COVID is airborne. Didn’t know that, remember folks sanitizing everything? We know how to test for it, and we know generally how long folks are contagious. We understand mortality risks much more completely now (fat and old). We did not know any of these things with significant certainty for a long time.

You’ll also note that many folks on here changed our minds on many policies as more data emerged. As folks got vaccinated and mortality decreased and transmission reduction efforts clearly failed, many folks like me changed our opinions. We built SA and made decisions with said SA. You can demonize that, if you want, but it’s a pretty rough take.

If your point is that in the absence of proof, we should be optimistic, fine, that’s your philosophy. But it doesn’t mean those that wanted to be conservative in the face of unknowns are inherently wrong and/or evil. In fact, you literally can’t prove that those efforts didn’t save significant lives (bang your head against the wall on that one, if you want).

For the record, I think that masks and vaccine requirements now should be entirely removed in society with the exception of elderly care or hospitals. We should have gotten rid of it over a year ago for the military. There is more nuance to how decisions have to be made and opinions should be formed than you give credit.

Nah bud you didn't have the SA. Not we, you. Everyone else did and was trying to explain that--and we were examining public data with a finer degree of granularity and recognized the data available was based on assumptions that weren't compelling enough to justify the length of policy measures being made. This wasn't high level college statistics. It was basic data 101. Instead we were gaslighted, shut down and dismissed. You're advocacy permanently damaged lives and will go on to upset many more as we walk into a recession that will likely see a growth in homeless populations, and a correspondent rise of substance abuse. Trying to dismiss yourself of responsibility for it isn't going to fly. 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by FLEA

[dream big]

8 hours ago, Negatory said:

Nah bro, says that you oversimplify things significantly into right or wrong, black or white. You have become what you criticize, and you all wonder why folks stopped commenting back. The forum turned significantly more into an echo chamber the last year, which has been nice for you guys, but doesn’t necessarily represent reality.

We all, right now, have the benefit of knowledge we did not have when decisions were being made. Your debrief choice (i can’t really call it a loop) is that we all made and then executed the wrong decisions in the beginning of the pandemic, and that “we” have doubled and tripled down and screeched the entire time. But in reality we as a society had very limited SA or perception of what the actual truth of the situation was until science uncovered some of those answers. It took months to years for that. And, you seem to forget, we had to operate and make decisions in that limited SA environment. You can’t put the big arrow on a decision when your SA is super low. The ends don’t justify the means. I believed, and will continue to believe, you 100% did not have the SA in the Summer of 2020.

For example, we now know mRNA vaccines are entirely ineffective at stopping transmission - we were hopeful they would be very effective. Didn’t know that. We now know that we’re looking at a significantly lower mortality variant with significantly higher spread - the first variant spread slower but had a mortality rate about 10 times higher pre-vaccine. Didn’t know when that was coming. We know that COVID is airborne. Didn’t know that, remember folks sanitizing everything? We know how to test for it, and we know generally how long folks are contagious. We understand mortality risks much more completely now (fat and old). We did not know any of these things with significant certainty for a long time.

You’ll also note that many folks on here changed our minds on many policies as more data emerged. As folks got vaccinated and mortality decreased and transmission reduction efforts clearly failed, many folks like me changed our opinions. We built SA and made decisions with said SA. You can demonize that, if you want, but it’s a pretty rough take.

If your point is that in the absence of proof, we should be optimistic, fine, that’s your philosophy. But it doesn’t mean those that wanted to be conservative in the face of unknowns are inherently wrong and/or evil. In fact, you literally can’t prove that those efforts didn’t save significant lives (bang your head against the wall on that one, if you want).

For the record, I think that masks and vaccine requirements now should be entirely removed in society with the exception of elderly care or hospitals. We should have gotten rid of it over a year ago for the military. There is more nuance to how decisions have to be made and opinions should be formed than you give credit.

This is what worries me. “We have little data but we will swing hard left, decimate the economy, and ruin careers in the name of public safety.” The government has shown what it is capable of when there is a “crisis.” The infringement of individual liberties has placed a dangerous precedent for this country.  We cannot just sit back and accept that we will just go full lockdown, liberties and the economy be damned, anytime there is a crisis because “we didn’t have SA.” Now, to be fair, other countries have had even more stringent restrictions (Germany, Japan, etc) but I expect better of the U.S.