COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[pawnman]

49 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Let’s assume for sake of argument you are 100% correct pooter. Take the next step in thought. What if anything should be done about it? If people who are aware of the vax and choose not to get it die, is that bad?

Then apply your answer to the major causes of death in our society and issues of health. Heart issues. Over weight issues. People choosing to end the life of others medically without giving them choice, cancers, smoking, drugs, etc. are you going to make choices for those people or take away health care for them or charge them more insurance because they are exercising their opinions?

It’s a really big open question. Sorry. Allow me to break it down or retort based off your answer.

But health insurance does cost more for smokers...?

But putting that aside, someone overdosing on drugs can't make me sick. Someone shoveling down Big Macs can't make me fat. Someone smoking can't give me lung cancer (despite all the screaming about second-hand smoke).

Unvaccinated people who refuse to wear masks absolutely increase the probability that those around them get infected.

See the difference? It's not a choice about your individual health...it's a choice that affects everyone around you. Which is usually the bar for mandates - government doesn't care if you get drunk, because that won't affect anyone else. But they care if you drive drunk, because your decision now increases the risk for others on the road. 

[Guardian]

Actually unvaccinated people who are sick are less likely to get others sick because they are aware of their issue and can take action. Those who are vaccinated are the bigger and untested (because no symptoms) of covid spread. See the difference?

Masks are for vaccinated and sick. Not the unvaccinated and symptom free. Follow the logic?

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

@ViperMan

 

On mask mandates, I honestly think any tiny shred of efficacy could justify a mandate. Wearing a mask is not an undue burden on you, and mandating you put a tiny piece of PPE on your face is a very far cry from mandating you to get an injection.  Hell, we all wear flight suits that have been washed thousands of times and have long since lost their fire resistance so apparently you guys are okay with some useless PPE but not others.. I guess as long as it looks cool. 

There's no logic behind this paragraph, just emotion. If you were being logically consistent, you would just say that we should wear masks forever. Because masks also marginally reduce the spread of flu, which kills people. So why now? Should we just be a masked society?

 

Negatory posted an excellent explanation of why the math doesn't work either. If we lived in a universe with an unlimited population, then small percentage changes in spread would have meaningful impacts, but we don't live in that world. With a fixed population, a highly transmissible disease is largely unaffected by single digit changes in spread. The only thing it affects is the speed at which the inevitable occurs, which is relevant for a hospital capacity, but not relevant for saving lives. Since hospital capacity in the overwhelming majority of the country is doing fine, then there are no remaining justifications for mask wear.

 

Except, of course, and emotional desire to feel like you're doing something, even if you really aren't.

 

And at this point, anybody advocating for masks who isn't wearing a properly fitted n95 that they are swapping out every day, is blowing so much smoke up their own ass it's amazing it's not coming back out their ears. Same goes for people who advocate for masks but eat at indoor restaurants.

[VMFA187]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

But health insurance does cost more for smokers...?

But putting that aside, someone overdosing on drugs can't make me sick. Someone shoveling down Big Macs can't make me fat. Someone smoking can't give me lung cancer (despite all the screaming about second-hand smoke).

Unvaccinated people who refuse to wear masks absolutely increase the probability that those around them get infected.

See the difference? It's not a choice about your individual health...it's a choice that affects everyone around you. Which is usually the bar for mandates - government doesn't care if you get drunk, because that won't affect anyone else. But they care if you drive drunk, because your decision now increases the risk for others on the road. 

 

Obese people cause higher rates in general because others have to subsidize the, often, poorer segment of society who make up a larger portion of the obese. 

At age 65 the rate at which someone causes a motor vehicle accident begins to increase significantly. Should we take away all drivers licenses for people when they turn 65? 

Edited January 7, 2022 by VMFA187

[pawnman]

53 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

 

Obese people cause higher rates in general because others have to subsidize the, often, poorer segment of society who make up a larger portion of the obese. 

At age 65 the rate at which someone causes a motor vehicle accident begins to increase significantly. Should we take away all drivers licenses for people when they turn 65? 

Take away licenses? Probably not. Increase insurance premiums? Sure. Require them to pass a new driver's test every few years? Absolutely. 

[Blue]

On 1/6/2022 at 1:15 PM, Blue said:

An anecdote:  I have not taken the jab.  My company (Big Fortune 100 behemoth) is subject to the Federal Contractor Mandate.  They have been spamming my inbox for weeks, warning that I need to submit my proof of vaccination, or else I'll "be subject to discipline, up to and including termination."

The deadline was Tuesday.  It's now Thursday.  I'm still here.  I have had no word from HR or management one way or the other.

It appears I spoke too soon.

I'm on unpaid leave as of Monday, 10 Jan due to not taking the jab.  If after three weeks (28 Jan) I still haven't taken the jab, I'll be considered "voluntarily resigned."

Not sure how that last bit is legal.  Need to do some research there.  Also, the Federal Contractor Mandate is still being litigated.  If it gets struck down in the courts, not sure how my situation changes.

I had Covid a week ago.  Wasn't too bad.  The HR manager who delivered the news on the phone was sniffling, so I assume she may have Covid too (and I assume she is vaccinated given her position).

I still don't know what all of this is about, but it sure as hell isn't public health.

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, Guardian said:

Actually unvaccinated people who are sick are less likely to get others sick because they are aware of their issue and can take action. Those who are vaccinated are the bigger and untested (because no symptoms) of covid spread. See the difference?

Masks are for vaccinated and sick. Not the unvaccinated and symptom free. Follow the logic?

Tell that to the guy in 17C, next to me on the plane yesterday who was hacking up a lung. Unfortunately we live in a society where many people think it’s ok to fly, use public transit, or go to work while sick, even in a pandemic. Personally, I’m glad ‘Typhoid Mike’ was forced to wear a mask. 

[TheNewGazmo]

Tell that to the guy in 17C, next to me on the plane yesterday who was hacking up a lung. Unfortunately we live in a society where many people think it’s ok to fly, use public transit, or go to work while sick, even in a pandemic. Personally, I’m glad ‘Typhoid Mike’ was forced to wear a mask. 

You think someone who dropped hundreds of bucks on a plane ticket and has somewhere to be is going to cancel his trip? People have hacked up lungs on airline flights for decades. Noone gave a shart. It was all part of the human experience.

[Lord Ratner]

1 minute ago, TheNewGazmo said:

15 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Tell that to the guy in 17C, next to me on the plane yesterday who was hacking up a lung. Unfortunately we live in a society where many people think it’s ok to fly, use public transit, or go to work while sick, even in a pandemic. Personally, I’m glad ‘Typhoid Mike’ was forced to wear a mask. 

You think someone who dropped hundreds of bucks on a plane ticket and has somewhere to be is going to cancel his trip? People have hacked up lungs up on airplanes for decades. Noone gave a shart. It was all part of the human experience.

If there's one positive from this entire experience, sick people will wear masks on planes and in public generally. But with how badly the mask narrative was abused by the power-obsessed, I suspect there's too much baggage for any good to come of it.

[Prozac]

32 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

You think someone who dropped hundreds of bucks on a plane ticket and has somewhere to be is going to cancel his trip? People have hacked up lungs on airline flights for decades. Noone gave a shart. It was all part of the human experience.

And this is why we can’t have nice things. 

[Prozac]

29 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

If there's one positive from this entire experience, sick people will wear masks on planes and in public generally. But with how badly the mask narrative was abused by the power-obsessed, I suspect there's too much baggage for any good to come of it.

I don’t disagree. But I do think there is culpability on both the left and right for anti-mask attitudes in general. On the left for being militant and on the right for overblowing the small nuisance that masking presents. 

[glockenspiel]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

And this is why we can’t have nice things. 

There shall be no risk in public!!!

[BashiChuni]

masking is not a small nuisance...it is very harmful to peoples psyche

[Prozac]

17 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

masking is not a small nuisance...it is very harmful to peoples psyche

[Pooter]

23 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

masking is not a small nuisance...it is very harmful to peoples psyche

That's a pretty pathetic sentiment. We are the most adaptable species on earth and you're saying we're going to be irreparably damaged by putting some cloth on our faces. You know our ancestors actually used to not have any cloth anywhere on their bodies?! But then we started wearing pants and shirts at some point. I wonder if the cavemen lamented the collective damaging of our psyches when that was implemented. 
 

It is a small nuisance. So much so that multiple Asian cultures (specifically Japan and Korea) have been diligently masking for decades without grave social damage. And guess what, it helped them be more prepared for this pandemic where they have had significantly lower case and death rates than the western world. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Pooter

[Grabby]

24 minutes ago, Pooter said:

That's a pretty pathetic sentiment. We are the most adaptable species on earth and you're saying we're going to be irreparably damaged by putting some cloth on our faces. You know our ancestors actually used to not have any cloth anywhere on their bodies?! But then we started wearing pants and shirts at some point. I wonder if the cavemen lamented the collective damaging of our psyches when that was implemented. 
 

It is a small nuisance. So much so that multiple Asian cultures (specifically Japan and Korea) have been diligently masking for decades without grave social damage. And guess what, it helped them be more prepared for this pandemic where they have had significantly lower case and death rates than the western world. 

The amount of assumptions and false equivalencies you made in one post is startling.

Ignoring your condescending first paragraph, I have to ask if you’ve ever been to Japan or Korea?  Historically they didn’t wear masks en masse the way you implied.  At all.  
 

Do you really think the reason they are healthier than us is because of a fabric mask?  

Do you think it’s possible that not being a nation of fat asses is why they have lower fatality rates?  And perhaps that we test at ridiculous rates, even when we feel fine, is a contributing cause to case loads?

Edited January 8, 2022 by Grabby

[FT11]

Honestly just starting to get blown away the number of pussies we have on this planet and nation (sts).

People upset someone is coughing near them? Concerned about what someone else has on their face or doesn’t? 
 

GMAFB, we could use a good shooting war. 

flame away 

[passingtime69]

On 1/7/2022 at 8:13 PM, FT11 said:

Honestly just starting to get blown away the number of pussies we have on this planet and nation (sts).
People upset someone is coughing near them? Concerned about what someone else has on their face or doesn’t? 
 
GMAFB, we could use a good shooting war. 
flame away 

Agree. Reference my earlier posts. If you don’t see that masks are a charade and political theater, and you’re worried about others being vaccinated while you’re vaccinated and gonna get the Rona no matter what someday….  Worry about yourselves and stop continuing to think unvaccinated are the problem or masks are the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Negatory]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

masking is not a small nuisance...it is very harmful to peoples psyche

Agreed. Arguing it’s no big deal is a real cop out argument. A potential 10-20% reduction in transmission traded for an inability to accurately portray or determine emotions is not worth it from a human social connection standpoint.

[ViperMan]

10 hours ago, Pooter said:

@ViperMan I think people are calling it "a pandemic of the unvaccinated" because it is the unvaccinated who are actually ending up in the hospital and dying from this thing.

In a pandemic I don't care how many people get the sniffles. I care about hospitalizations and death, which are happening in disproportionate numbers to the unvaxxed.

Similarly, you could call it a "pandemic of the obese" or a "pandemic of the elderly" as they're the ones getting the full brunt of the effects. 

On mask mandates, I honestly think any tiny shred of efficacy could justify a mandate. Wearing a mask is not an undue burden on you, and mandating you put a tiny piece of PPE on your face is a very far cry from mandating you to get an injection.  Hell, we all wear flight suits that have been washed thousands of times and have long since lost their fire resistance so apparently you guys are okay with some useless PPE but not others.. I guess as long as it looks cool. 

Well fine, @Pooter, but to be clear, a pandemic is defined as spread of a disease affecting a large population over multiple geographic areas. If you're just going to willy nilly change the definition to mean a pandemic equals people dying, then yeah, sure, you can argue anything you want. But over here in my world, words mean things, and those meanings are imbued with importance, especially when you're arguing or debating a point. It's fine if you don't care about people getting the sniffles, but I assure you, infectious disease experts care about the uncontrolled spread of disease, not solely those diseases which are killing people.

And to your point about mandates, this is where we depart ways. YOU don't think it is an undue burden on SOMEONE else? So therefore it isn't? That's our logic now? My, how bourgeois and enlightened of you.

[ViperMan]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

It is a small nuisance. So much so that multiple Asian cultures (specifically Japan and Korea) have been diligently masking for decades without grave social damage. And guess what, it helped them be more prepared for this pandemic where they have had significantly lower case and death rates than the western world. 

Dude, I'm sorry, but no. Just no. The obesity rate in Korea and Japan is approx 4% and 3% respectively. The obesity rate in the USA is 10x those numbers. So no, I'm sorry, it was not diligent masking that resulted in less death in those cultures. It's the fact that they weren't twinkied tinderboxes.

https://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/obesityandtheeconomicsofpreventionfitnotfat-koreakeyfacts.htm

https://ageconsearch.umn.edu/record/14321/?ln=en

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/health/covid-fat-obesity.html

https://www.science.org/content/article/why-covid-19-more-deadly-people-obesity-even-if-theyre-young

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211020/even-with-mild-covid-obesity-may-mean-worse-symptoms#1

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

Occam's Razor suggests that this is the, or close to the, root cause of why our populace has had a relatively hard time with this disease when compared to other cultures. Standing by for correlation does not equal causation flags.

 

[arg]

What's the over/under on SCOTUS ruling tomorrow?

[BashiChuni]

10 hours ago, Pooter said:

That's a pretty pathetic sentiment. We are the most adaptable species on earth and you're saying we're going to be irreparably damaged by putting some cloth on our faces. You know our ancestors actually used to not have any cloth anywhere on their bodies?! But then we started wearing pants and shirts at some point. I wonder if the cavemen lamented the collective damaging of our psyches when that was implemented. 
 

It is a small nuisance. So much so that multiple Asian cultures (specifically Japan and Korea) have been diligently masking for decades without grave social damage. And guess what, it helped them be more prepared for this pandemic where they have had significantly lower case and death rates than the western world. 

And Pooter, yes it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that masking is harmful to people. Doesn’t take a fucking rocket scientist to figure that maybe kids need to see facial expressions. It’s definitely possible that masking is very harmful to peoples psyche. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by BashiChuni

[GKinnear]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

And Pooter, yes it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that masking is harmful to people. Doesn’t take a fucking rocket scientist to figure that maybe kids need to see facial expressions. It’s definitely possibly that masking is very harmful to peoples psyche. 

Bashi, do you need a weighted blanket and a nap?  Not that I don't agree with some of your points, but damn son...impressive rant.

Personally, my own kids (elementary to college senior) have shown vast improvements with a) getting back to in-person school, and b) getting past the mandatory masking.  It's the little things that make them more receptive to education.

It's my opinion, so YMMV.

 

Also, thought that kid was expressing himself appropriately...had to do a doubletake.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by GKinnear

[glockenspiel]

13 hours ago, Pooter said:

You know our ancestors actually used to not have any cloth anywhere on their bodies?! But then we started wearing pants and shirts at some point. I wonder if the cavemen lamented the collective damaging of our psyches when that was implemented. 

Remember when our ancestors breathed from their bodies? Those were good times. 
 

Social cues and communication derived from bodies are largely unhindered by the wearing of clothes— the same cannot be said about masks. 
 

Theater! The show must go on 🤡