COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Negatory]

Selection bias is rife. Yesterday’s  conspiracy theories have often been actually conspiracy theories. See how COVID was over in Apr 2020, then Aug 2020, then Apr 2021, then… or how hydroxychloriquine was a miracle drug… etc.

Im just posting data. You guys can get offended at data if you like, but we’re at the point of no more rational discourse if that’s the case.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Negatory

[MCO]

2 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

 

2000 Americans died with it or of it?  Which variant?

How many Americans died yesterday of other causes?

How many Americans died yesterday of the common cold?

[Buddy Spike]

1 minute ago, MCO said:

How many Americans died yesterday of the common cold?

Great question.

No one cares because it's not politicized.  

[VMFA187]

1 hour ago, MCO said:

How many Americans died yesterday of the common cold?

How many Americans died yesterday *with* the common cold?

[MCO]

3 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

Great question.

No one cares because it's not politicized.  

 

It is politicized. But you can’t say that the few thousand colds kill a year, or the 30,000 the flu kills a year is the same as COVID so far. It isn’t. That said, I mostly agree with you when it comes to overreaction of responses. Just be real about explaining the difference and the risk you are taking. I think the risk is low, much lower than the media makes it seem. I also think the risk is higher than the common cold. I don’t think those are two opposing views.

[glockenspiel]

17 hours ago, Negatory said:

 

If you think the fact that we have multiple orders of magnitude more people on ventilators for respiratory distress than previous years is due largely to hospitals forcing otherwise healthy people to be intubated, then I’ve got nothing for you.

 

Is it 10x,100x or 1000x? Just so we are on the same page here…

[ClearedHot]

If you still think Fauci is on the up and up I invite you to review this breakdown of his emails by a LIBERAL.  Ryan Grim is a well known liberal journalist who has for years focused on corruption.  He worked for the Huffpost and contributed to the Young Turks...hardly a conservative hack. 

 

[Buddy Spike]

13 hours ago, MCO said:

 

It is politicized. But you can’t say that the few thousand colds kill a year, or the 30,000 the flu kills a year is the same as COVID so far. It isn’t. That said, I mostly agree with you when it comes to overreaction of responses. Just be real about explaining the difference and the risk you are taking. I think the risk is low, much lower than the media makes it seem. I also think the risk is higher than the common cold. I don’t think those are two opposing views.

You are comparing "covid so far" to Omicron, which is a much less lethal (almost not at all) variant that lives in the upper respiratory system.  It is a common cold.  

[MCO]

7 minutes ago, Buddy Spike said:

You are comparing "covid so far" to Omicron, which is a much less lethal (almost not at all) variant that lives in the upper respiratory system.  It is a common cold.  

Maybe, but people have died of omicron. It’s possible you are proven right but it’s too early to tell how deadly omicron actually is other than it’s much less deadly. Hopefully it is the beginning of the end of the higher death rates compared to other seasonal diseases.

[Buddy Spike]

1 minute ago, MCO said:

Maybe, but people have died of omicron. It’s possible you are proven right but it’s too early to tell how deadly omicron actually is other than it’s much less deadly. Hopefully it is the beginning of the end of the higher death rates compared to other seasonal diseases.

How many?  What's the percentage per infections?

[Buddy Spike]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-covid-hospitalizations-up-about-33-deaths-up-about-40-over-past-week-cdc-2022-01-12/

[ClearedHot]

8 minutes ago, Buddy Spike said:

How many?  What's the percentage per infections?

91% less likely to kill those who get infected than the delta strain

Omicron Death Rate in South Africa Peaked at 15% of Delta Wave

[Buddy Spike]

Just now, ClearedHot said:

91% less likely to kill those who get infected than the delta strain

Omicron Death Rate in South Africa Peaked at 15% of Delta Wave

91% less deadly than a variant that had a 98%+ survival rate.  

[ClearedHot]

Just now, Buddy Spike said:

91% less deadly than a variant that had a 98%+ survival rate.  

I will never understand the 98% survival rate statement. 

340,000,000 Americans x .02 death rate = 6.8 million dead Americans, you are ok with that?

We got lucky, so far it has killed 849,000 Americans and world-wide it has killed 5.5 MILLION People. 

I am not in favor of masks, shutting down the economy, or mandatory vaccinations but I think we should stop the 98% survival rate BS and acknowledge there is a real impact.

[FT11]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I will never understand the 98% survival rate statement. 

340,000,000 Americans x .02 death rate = 6.8 million dead Americans, you are ok with that?

We got lucky, so far it has killed 849,000 Americans and world-wide it has killed 5.5 MILLION People. 

I am not in favor of masks, shutting down the economy, or mandatory vaccinations but I think we should stop the 98% survival rate BS and acknowledge there is a real impact.

You’re right I’m not okay with the 98 percent survival rate. But fortunately by you’re own population numbers it’s actually 99.94 percent survivable worldwide and 99.75 percent survivable in the US. 
 

Spoiler alert, getting on your motorcycle has worse odds than that - so yeah I’m good with those numbers 

[ViperMan]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

We got lucky, so far it has killed 849,000 Americans and world-wide it has killed 5.5 MILLION People.

In no universe is this statement true. Deaths due to COVID or dying with COVID is undifferentiated in our tracking, which to be clear, is a feature for the PTB, not a bug. It has allowed them to propagate a narrative to justify all manner of policy-making that would be otherwise impossible. It's a bad bug that takes advantage of comorbidity. Now that Omicron is on the set, it's only a matter of time before the inevitable happens - that being the left in this country wakes up and admits the game is over. The new variant (and its derivatives) will be endemic, forever. It's breaking through three shots, masking, and everything else. Even they are going to have to wake up and realize that all the restrictions they're trying to implement are futile.

[Buddy Spike]

3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I will never understand the 98% survival rate statement. 

340,000,000 Americans x .02 death rate = 6.8 million dead Americans, you are ok with that?

We got lucky, so far it has killed 849,000 Americans and world-wide it has killed 5.5 MILLION People. 

I am not in favor of masks, shutting down the economy, or mandatory vaccinations but I think we should stop the 98% survival rate BS and acknowledge there is a real impact.

How many died with it vs of it?  The stats are flawed.  It's much less than 849k.

[ClearedHot]

2 hours ago, ViperMan said:

In no universe is this statement true. Deaths due to COVID or dying with COVID is undifferentiated in our tracking, which to be clear, is a feature for the PTB, not a bug. It has allowed them to propagate a narrative to justify all manner of policy-making that would be otherwise impossible. It's a bad bug that takes advantage of comorbidity. Now that Omicron is on the set, it's only a matter of time before the inevitable happens - that being the left in this country wakes up and admits the game is over. The new variant (and its derivatives) will be endemic, forever. It's breaking through three shots, masking, and everything else. Even they are going to have to wake up and realize that all the restrictions they're trying to implement are futile.

It is not true to quote his death rate statement?  GTFOH. 

He said 98% survival rate NOT ME so I did the math.

2 hours ago, FT11 said:

You’re right I’m not okay with the 98 percent survival rate. But fortunately by you’re own population numbers it’s actually 99.94 percent survivable worldwide and 99.75 percent survivable in the US. 
 

Spoiler alert, getting on your motorcycle has worse odds than that - so yeah I’m good with those numbers 

Not "MY" survival numbers.  Does anyone actually ready on here?  I guess not...so probably pointless to repost my statement "I am not in favor of masks, shutting down the economy, or mandatory vaccinations but I think we should stop the 98% survival rate BS and acknowledge there is a real impact"

M2 - you are correct, we should nuke this thread.

[HeloDude]

16 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

M2 - you are correct, we should nuke this thread.

But we’ve gotten so much out of it!  And it’s clearly only brought us all closer together…

[ViperMan]

7 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I will never understand the 98% survival rate statement. 

340,000,000 Americans x .02 death rate = 6.8 million dead Americans, you are ok with that?

To address your quote directly, not every American has gotten, or will get, COVID. So 6.8 million Americans aren't going to be killed by COVID. You can multiply that by 340M, but you're going to get a ridiculous upper bound on how many people will die. And no, I'm not ok with that, but it's also not something that's going to happen. I hadn't even read Buddy Spike's comment about 98%. Whatever. But to do the math, if you get 2% "death rate" X 9% as deadly Omicron variant, you get .0018. Multiply that by 340M, and you get 612,000. That's how many people would die if every American got Omicron. 1/10 of your quoted rate. BL, I was only critiquing the propaganda that 850,000 Americans have died FROM COVID. That's a BS statistic used to fear monger, and is the only thing I was pushing back against.

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

It is not true to quote his death rate statement?  GTFOH. 

He said 98% survival rate NOT ME so I did the math.

I guess I'm not sure what you're saying or what point is being made. IF 840,000 Americans have been killed by COVID, then out of 340M total Americans alive, you get a 0.2% COVID "death rate" - which to be clear, is completely invalid math. My point was that the government's figures re: COVID deaths have marked everyone who has died with COVID as a COVID death. This includes people who were likely to die anyway from whatever condition they had, or because they were in a nursing home and were part of an extraordinarily vulnerable population.

[Prozac]

So do tell us, with your obviously superior intellect and statistical analysis skills, how many Americans have died from Covid-19? Also, go with creds that prove you are qualified to determine the official numbers are pure propaganda. I’m sure they’re very impressive. 

[brabus]

55 minutes ago, Prozac said:

So do tell us, with your obviously superior intellect and statistical analysis skills, how many Americans have died from Covid-19?

I think the point is nobody knows. But we do know the touted numbers aren’t accurate. To what degree of inaccuracy is unknown (at least I haven’t seen anything objective/credible). But with so much fuckery going on, it’s logical to be skeptical. I think a few people have made good “middle ground” points (paraphrasing…) that it’s not accurate to say COVID is simply the “common cold,” but it’s far from what the fear mongers have sold (in a desire to compel compliance, build power, and change society to suit their desires).

[glockenspiel]

nuke conversations lol. Nobody is forcing anyone to participate in the conversation hahah. Daddy stop the bad people from talking bad😢

[ViperMan]

@nsplayr: first, I didn't, and I'm not, writing off old people. COVID kills people. Duh. Also, COVID has not killed everyone that the PTB say it has. If you can't see the distinction, that's fine with me. I don't really care. But there it is for you in black and white if you care to read it. If you also think that counting people as COVID deaths has not been incentivized, then I don't have much for you. The point of this discussion in my view, is to discuss all things related to the COVID pandemic - that includes what is counted as a COVID death, because, news flash: the more people the PTB tally up as COVID deaths, the more money they get. A few of these things smell suspicious to a lot of people who are voluntarily engaging in this conversation. Some of those are

• Why it took the WHO so long to declare the outbreak a pandemic, considering it had met the book definition LONG before it was actually declared as one publicly.
• Why it was verboten to question the origin of the pandemic.
• Why shutting down borders in some cases is ok, but not in others.
• Why our death rate is apparently worse than many other countries.

I could go on. In short, though, the point is that the political response to this mess has been undeniably, nakedly, political. What has been acceptable for one party has not been acceptable for another - for reasons which are clearly political. If you've got space in your queue for a podcast, I recommend this one with Bari Weiss (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bringing-sanity-to-the-omicron-chaos-three-doctors-weigh-in/id1570872415?i=1000547881659). It was excellent.

I don't care to make this personal, but if someone is in a hospital getting treated for lung cancer and they get COVID, did they die of COVID? Maybe, but not in my opinion. What about someone who is obese? Did they die of COVID? Maybe, but not in my opinion. Probably need more detail in most cases. I'm certain we disagree on these points. But to be clear, I don't dispute that it's a bad disease. I dispute that it's as bad a disease as those who are benefiting from it being the worst thing ever are calling it. ~850K people are dead. Ok. There are a lot of people in that group who had underlying conditions for which COVID was the straw that broke the camel's back - it was not the root cause. Here's a couple (https://www.kmov.com/news/colorado-coroner-calling-out-how-state-classifies-covid-19-deaths/article_297e3550-4131-11eb-9f01-ffe3e11d0f46.html, https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nypd-man-shot-officers-dies-coronavirus-70941694).

It sucks people die. It sucks worse when their memories are dishonored by using them as pretext and justification to implement whatever policy goals they wanted anyway.

[ViperMan]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

So do tell us, with your obviously superior intellect and statistical analysis skills, how many Americans have died from Covid-19? Also, go with creds that prove you are qualified to determine the official numbers are pure propaganda. I’m sure they’re very impressive. 

https://www.timestables.com/

If you scale the populations of Japan and South Korea to make them equivalent to the US, you would get deaths in those countries to be about 50,000 and 38,000, respectively (they're actually 18,600, and 6300). This is minuscule when compared to the "850,000 OMG" deaths in the USA. Like 20x more people are dying from this thing on this side of the Pacific because...because...why, again??? In statistics class, we call this an outlier, and it points to something significant going on.

Why, WHY are there so many fewer deaths in those countries when compared to ours?

Do you not find this curious? No wonderings at all?

Edited January 16, 2022 by ViperMan
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