COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[Lord Ratner]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:58 PM, Pooter said:

a 76 year old man

Obese. A 76 year old obese man.

[Blue]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:58 PM, Pooter said:

I don't always get my political wisdom from ham-fisted hyper biased cartoons.. but when I do its from the guy who's sucking trump off so hard he invariably portrays a 76 year old man as a fit beefcake. 

Such compelling stuff. Much commentary. Wow.

JFC.  It's a political cartoon.  You gonna post a sniveling reply to every stupid meme, too?

[dream big]

17 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Oh wow, he used the big font and even some ALL CAPS.

A sure sign of winning the debate!

Sign of a losing debate: critiquing the means of debate vice the arguement itself 😉 

[CaptainMorgan]

that's all well and good....IF people hadn't been forced to close their businesses, IF people hadn't been forced to take an experimental drug or get fired, IF kids hadn't (and in some states STILL) been forced to wear masks in schools, IF big tech hadn't censored only ONE side of the argument AT THE ING DIRECTION OF THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AKA CDC
hell NYC and LAX STILL "require" MASKS in the airport. thankfully people with a brain don't wear one. but hell man it's not ing over.
IF all those things hadn't happened i'd tend to agree with you...no problem. But all that shit did happen. and the decision makers were wrong. hundreds of thousands/millions of lives were ed up. there needs to be accountability.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sim]

Quote

ORDERED that the Mayor is permanently enjoined from implementing, imposing, andlor enforcing the COVID-19 vaccine mandate that has been established in MO 2021-147, DCHR Issuance No. 1-2022-3, the DCHR's variance to 6-B DCMR § 2001, and the DCHR’s rule amending 6-B DCMR § 2001, against Plaintiffs and itis further ORDERED that all disciplinary actions initiated, proposed, or taken pursuant to the COVID-19 vaccine mandate that has been established in MO 2021-147, DCHR Issuance No. I- 2022-3, the DCHR’s variance to 6-B DCMR § 2001, and the DCHR's rule amending 6-B DCMR § 2001, shall immediately cease and be dismissed, with full reimbursement to be provided to all FOP members for any loss of benefits, pay, or rights and all related disciplinary proceedings to be expunged from their records, and it is further

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/22266023-fop_bowser_vaccinemandateorder

 

Quote

An order that was handed down by Judge Maurice A. Ross was a response to a lawsuit filed by the Washington D.C. Police Union and other groups that opposed Mayor Muriel Bowser’s mandate. Bowser in August of last year ordered city government employees to provide proof of vaccination although some workers could seek a medical or religious exemption to the shot.

 

[Sim]

 

Quote

Conclusion

Non-use of ivermectin was associated with a 12.5-fold increase in mortality rate and a seven-fold increased risk of dying from COVID-19 compared to the regular use of ivermectin. This dose-response efficacy reinforces the prophylactic effects of ivermectin against COVID-19.

https://www.cureus.com/articles/111851-regular-use-of-ivermectin-as-prophylaxis-for-covid-19-led-up-to-a-92-reduction-in-covid-19-mortality-rate-in-a-dose-response-manner-results-of-a-prospective-observational-study-of-a-strictly-controlled-population-of-

Mooo - Ya'll. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Sim

[gearhog]

Appealing through the proper channels, Master Sgt Kupper alleged that the Air Force violated protocol by removing the chain of command from the mRNA mandate exemption process. He then filed an Inspector General complaint, which was swiftly denied. When they closed his case, their office said he had to file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to see their findings.
 

https://dossier.substack.com/p/redacted-pentagon-denies-exemptions?utm_source=twitter&sd=pf
 

DOD FOIA response:

🤡

[BashiChuni]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:00 PM, nsplayr said:

Oh wow, he used the big font and even some ALL CAPS.

A sure sign of winning the debate!

don't look now but the narrative you subscribed to is crumbling...and quickly.

the truth is coming out.

[Pooter]

On 8/24/2022 at 3:28 PM, BashiChuni said:

that's all well and good....IF people hadn't been forced to close their businesses, IF people hadn't been forced to take an experimental drug or get fired, IF kids hadn't (and in some states STILL) been forced to wear masks in schools, IF big tech hadn't censored only ONE side of the argument AT THE FUCKING DIRECTION OF THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AKA CDC

hell NYC and LAX STILL "require" MASKS in the airport. thankfully people with a brain don't wear one. but hell man it's not fucking over.

IF all those things hadn't happened i'd tend to agree with you...no problem. But all that shit did happen. and the decision makers were wrong. hundreds of thousands/millions of lives were fucked up. there needs to be accountability.

You're not wrong. Social media censorship is always bad. The wrong decisions were made by government in a lot of cases.  Closing peoples businesses on the grounds that they're non essential is horseshit. Masking kids for years on end is pointless. Vax mandates for civilian workers is a huge violation of medical autonomy and privacy. 
 

But when you have a country of 320 million people in a patchwork of 50 states you're going to get a wide variety of responses. And cobbling together the ones you don't like into a big laundry list doesn't constitute a conspiracy. My state (Texas) did almost none of the things listed above. And if I asked you pre-pandemic which states would go batshit with regulations and mandates, you probably could have predicted it with high accuracy. 
 

But that's the cool part of the United States. You can choose where to live. It sounds like the voters in California and New York value perceived safety over freedom.  I think that's ass backwards and it sounds like you do too. So shocker, I don't live in California or New York and I never will. 
 

On the flip side of the coin, the 5 worst states in covid deaths per capita are all Republican.  I'd bet there are plenty of California and New York people who think these states' covid response was batshit.

The lesson learned here is that there are trade offs between safety and freedom and you should live in a place that aligns with your values. 
 

edit: and if the federal government response is your primary concern.. maybe the Republican party should kick their trump addiction.  Because no one in the history of the United States drives Democrat voter turnout like he does.  Hitching your wagon to the mid 70's orange clown who denies election results, mishandles classified, and has zero appeal outside of the far right is not a way you get the things you want at the federal level. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Pooter

[TreeA10]

Hhmm, death rates also match obesity rates.  Weird.

[BashiChuni]

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

The lesson learned here is that there are trade offs between safety and freedom and you should live in a place that aligns with your values.

is that what the constitution and bill of rights says?

must have missed that.

but sadly you are correct that certain states prioritized "safety" and "health" over liberty and freedom. good luck putting that genie back in the bottle.

the covid narrative is crumbling fast

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

Hhmm, death rates also match obesity rates.  Weird.

Checks.  They also almost perfectly match the inverse of vaccination rates.  I'd bet it also maps pretty closely onto education and poverty rates.

So you could argue those states, having such vulnerable populations, could have benefitted the most from more covid mitigation measures. Losing substantial weight isn't an overnight process so perhaps vaccination, masking, and distancing were good stop gaps as people worked to get in better shape. 

But instead the residents of Mississippi  yelled freedom at the top of their lungs, continued shoveling hot pockets down their gullets, blew off mitigation measures and as a result have 4 times the death rate of Vermont. 
 

Which is totally fine. That's what the people in Mississippi want to do. And the people in Vermont want to be vegan marathon runners who live in an overbearing nanny state that probably destroyed tons of small businesses.

[Pooter]

17 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

is that what the constitution and bill of rights says?

must have missed that.

Kindof, yes. Our constitution's take on federalism delegates massive authority to the states to govern differently based on the desires of different groups. And I'm not aware of any part of the constitution other than speech/religion/arms that says freedom will always be prioritized 100% over safety/health especially in a public sense. 
 

Regulations for "public health" are always a cost-benefit analysis, and depending how you weigh the variables (freedom vs safety), the answer to that cost-benefit analysis will be different.  This is why the constitution is so great, it pushes governance down to the lowest level where things can be decided with higher fidelity. 
 

And when the cost benefit gets skewed too far away from freedom, that's what the courts are for. 

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

Kindof, yes. Our constitution's take on federalism delegates massive authority to the states to govern differently based on the desires of different groups. And I'm not aware of any part of the constitution other than speech/religion/arms that says freedom will always be prioritized 100% over safety/health especially in a public sense. 
 

Ah so like the federal government telling big tech what to censor?

like barring people from going to church for "safety"?

or even singing in church?

government shutting down private businesses indefinitely for "safety"?

all of those actions were WILDLY unconstitutional. it's not even up for debate.

freedom of speech massively violated. freedom of religion massively violated. it's starting to all come out now that the lawsuits are flying.

you don't actually think the egotistical fauci WANTED to resign this winter do you? why would he do that? hmmmmmmm

[BashiChuni]

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

And when the cost benefit gets skewed too far away from freedom, that's what the courts are for. 

ah yes lets talk about cost/benefit.

 

your side is still masking toddlers....tell me about that cost benefit.

also in some cases still mandating and definitely still pushing a vax that does nothing to stop covid.

 

get out of here with your cost/benefit gas lighting.

Edited September 7, 2022 by BashiChuni

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

lol why are people still arguing about COVID? there aren't any mask mandates anymore, people who want the vaccine got it, it'll be no different than an annual flu variant (and vaccine if you want it), let's just move on already.

Or am I missing something because my mask is a DD-214?

[BashiChuni]

32 minutes ago, LumberjackAxe said:

lol why are people still arguing about COVID? there aren't any mask mandates anymore, people who want the vaccine got it, it'll be no different than an annual flu variant (and vaccine if you want it), let's just move on already.

Or am I missing something because my mask is a DD-214?

 

would you feel the same way if the government closed your business and drove you into bankruptcy? i'm genuinely curious. because that's what happened to hundreds of thousands of your countrymen.

you don't think there should be accountability for that? or for firing people from not taking an experimental vax that has been proven to not work and/or cause deadly side effects in some people?

you also think it's "Ok" that the white house used twitter and facebook to censor and ban doctors/citizens who had options contrary to the CDC? Opinions that turned out to be 100% correct.

you think it's "ok" that doctors who spoke out against mandatory covid vaccinations and mandatory masking had their medical licenses revoked by their states?

you're good with saying "eh... fuck it let's move on"?

i think you're missing a lot.

this isn't over. not by a long shot.

 

lawsuits are just now being filed and the truth is starting to come out.

Edited September 7, 2022 by BashiChuni

[Blue]

41 minutes ago, LumberjackAxe said:

lol why are people still arguing about COVID? there aren't any mask mandates anymore, people who want the vaccine got it, it'll be no different than an annual flu variant (and vaccine if you want it), let's just move on already.

Or am I missing something because my mask is a DD-214?

Seriously?

I mean, the entire country (and the world) was thrown into 2+ years of chaos.  Lives ruined, and the after effects of it all are going to be felt for the rest of our lives.  Side effects from vaccines, the reshaping of the economy, the mental damage its caused people, etc, etc.

To say nothing for the subset of politicians out there that are spring-loaded to move back to lockdowns and masks just as soon as Covid numbers "spike" again.

[jonlbs]

47 minutes ago, LumberjackAxe said:

lol why are people still arguing about COVID? there aren't any mask mandates anymore, people who want the vaccine got it, it'll be no different than an annual flu variant (and vaccine if you want it), let's just move on already.

Or am I missing something because my mask is a DD-214?

Got kicked out of the base gym last week for no mask. They are mandated at a decent amount of bases I would assume besides mine. Just a small snapshot that it is still affecting decisions and people sadly.

[Bertamus47]

If it becomes an annual vaccine requirement to stay in the military while the vaccine continues to be in an experimental/emergency use status, it definitely will continue to affect all of us (assuming everyone here is or wants to be in the military) and should be discussed.

[dream big]

8 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

 

would you feel the same way if the government closed your business and drove you into bankruptcy? i'm genuinely curious. because that's what happened to hundreds of thousands of your countrymen.

you don't think there should be accountability for that? or for firing people from not taking an experimental vax that has been proven to not work and/or cause deadly side effects in some people?

you also think it's "Ok" that the white house used twitter and facebook to censor and ban doctors/citizens who had options contrary to the CDC? Opinions that turned out to be 100% correct.

you think it's "ok" that doctors who spoke out against mandatory covid vaccinations and mandatory masking had their medical licenses revoked by their states?

you're good with saying "eh... fuck it let's move on"?

i think you're missing a lot.

this isn't over. not by a long shot.

 

lawsuits are just now being filed and the truth is starting to come out.

All of this, plus the fact that we know what our government is now capable of doing during the next “crisis.” Vote! The double masked Karen walking outside sure will be! 

[Lord Ratner]

On 9/7/2022 at 2:15 PM, Pooter said:

Kindof, yes. Our constitution's take on federalism delegates massive authority to the states to govern differently based on the desires of different groups. And I'm not aware of any part of the constitution other than speech/religion/arms that says freedom will always be prioritized 100% over safety/health especially in a public sense. 
 

Regulations for "public health" are always a cost-benefit analysis, and depending how you weigh the variables (freedom vs safety), the answer to that cost-benefit analysis will be different.  This is why the constitution is so great, it pushes governance down to the lowest level where things can be decided with higher fidelity. 
 

And when the cost benefit gets skewed too far away from freedom, that's what the courts are for. 

Not sure why you got down voted here.

[Pooter]

On 9/7/2022 at 2:29 PM, BashiChuni said:

ah yes lets talk about cost/benefit.

 

your side is still masking toddlers....tell me about that cost benefit.

also in some cases still mandating and definitely still pushing a vax that does nothing to stop covid.

 

get out of here with your cost/benefit gas lighting.

Dude you seem really determined to pigeon hole people into one "side" or the other so you can set straw men up to argue against. 
 

I never said the government response, or fauci, or the CDC were perfect. I also specifically already mentioned that masking kids makes no sense, tech censorship is bad, and mandates on the civilian population were a gross overreach. So just calm down for a second. 
 

My whole point here is that we live in a big country, and a lot of people reacted in knee jerk fashion with incomplete information to this thing in a lot of different ways. Some states did nothing and some states went batshit with rules. And to a certain extent.. that's their prerogative because our government is designed that way.  Were there some severe infringements on peoples rights? Yes. Were there states that sat on their hands and exposed potentially vulnerable people to needless risk? Also yes.  Hopefully we can investigate and debrief both.

But that is the nature of living in a very large country that pushes governance down to a low level. So cobbling together the reactions you specifically don't like a-la Fox & Friends and insinuating a giant coordinated conspiracy is silly. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Pooter

[BashiChuni]

50 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Dude you seem really determined to pigeon hole people into one "side" or the other so you can set straw men up to argue against. 
 

 insinuating a giant coordinated conspiracy is silly. 

uh there was a giant conspiracy. look at the emails that were sent internal to the CDC and the memos sent to big tech to censor opposing ideas. that's factual my man.

the fact is the CDC and federal government conspired with twitter specifically (and big tech in general) to censor and ban private citizens and doctors dissenting opinions. the email chain is there. alex berenson has the email screen shots. (reference joe rogan episode #1864) its bad. and there's gonna be hell to pay. and no, alex berenson isn't some right wing nut job...you can look him up.

 

as far as pigeon hole....well seems like biden's done that for me. you either voted for him or you're "extremist" and a "threat" to the republic.

in regards to pigeon hole related to the pandemic...there's only two sides. you either approve of how FL type states handled it...or you approve of how CA type states handled it.

there's no middle ground. you're either for individual rights and choices or you're not. that's not a pigeon hole or strawman. i'm amazed at how many citizens blindly trust their daddy government and will never hold it accountable for gross violations of their constitutional rights.

 

[tac airlifter]

6 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

uh there was a giant conspiracy. look at the emails that were sent internal to the CDC and the memos sent to big tech to censor opposing ideas. that's factual my man.

the fact is the CDC and federal government conspired with twitter specifically (and big tech in general) to censor and ban private citizens and doctors dissenting opinions. 

 

That’s exactly right. Go back and read this thread from 18 months ago, people here were claiming there was a scientific consensus when in fact there was a conspiracy to paint a scientific consensus and drown out opposing voices.  And those opposing voices turned out to be correct.  Now revisionist history is taking place right in front of our eyes: Democrats are claiming they did not want schools closed, Trump pushed the shot, and it was just a wild time and nobody really knew what the right answer was so they defaulted towards safety.  All of that completely false.

As I look at the many failures compounding within our society, from skyrocketing urban crime to a foolish Covid response, to a humiliating defeat in Afghanistan, runaway inflation, etc. there is a single thread which connects them all: lack of accountability.  People in senior leadership positions made deliberate decisions with disastrous results, and they are never held accountable. All of our problems will continue to worsen until people are fired & thrown in jail when they deserve it.  And given the severe damage to children he perpetrated, I would like to start with Fauci.