COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[GrndPndr]

Outdoors?  WSJ article, sheds some light (maybe).

Should You Wear a Mask When Exercising Outdoors?

[SurelySerious]

1 hour ago, GrndPndr said:

Outdoors?  WSJ article, sheds some light (maybe).

Should You Wear a Mask When Exercising Outdoors?

So the conclusion is “we don’t really know because there are too many variables” leaning heavily toward “the massive volume of air and flow in the outdoors is probably going to disperse it to a negligible level if you stay away from other people” with a side of “don’t run directly behind someone.”

[busdriver]

Actual studies/experiments, both pre-date the current insanity:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2843945/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

 

[AirGuardianC141747]

11 hours ago, brabus said:

That is a nice, little invalid analogy I’ve seen going around. Cloth masks do not remotely stop spread as compared to jeans stopping piss.

Makes sense, to the point or not, perfect - nothing really is, but something is better than nothing. Our state is slowly coming alive as well as others so whatever it takes. Useful, not useful, doesn’t really matter right now - folks need to get back to work and be responsible if that’s what it takes, plenty slackers as always. We’ll see just how many return to work quickly vs having an unemployment check worth more than what they were previously earning despite bailouts. Are unemployment checks time limited...? Maybe if previous employment or better is proven to be available? Definitely too detailed to chase down, just another rabbit hole.

Overall, discussions on virus infection rates, fatality rates, masks/gloves effective or not are past productions of wisdom. Just do what the hero health workers (working, Hello) and actual essential personnel are mostly doing and get the work churn going. Definitely easier said then done, totally get that. Lazy out, reborn enthusiasm in. Time for Merica to get back working responsibility and effectively. If the “Safety is Paramount” slogan was believed in any line of work, no one would do it!

Edited April 30, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[GrndPndr]

20 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

So the conclusion is “we don’t really know because there are too many variables” leaning heavily toward “the massive volume of air and flow in the outdoors is probably going to disperse it to a negligible level if you stay away from other people” with a side of “don’t run directly behind someone.”

My conclusion is that I will not worry at all when I am outdoors.

Please stop the madness (outdoor madness).

[kaputt]

Oshkosh airshow cancelled. Sucks. 
 

Was going to be flying in for the first time this year. 

[ryleypav]

8 minutes ago, kaputt said:

Oshkosh airshow cancelled. Sucks. 
 

Was going to be flying in for the first time this year. 

Dang. Was tossing the idea of flying there myself. 

[jrizzell]

This seems like a really big over course correction...

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/05/06/coronavirus-survivors-banned-from-joining-the-military/

[FLEA]

Especially since they predict over 2/3 of the US population will contract the virus before this is over. Wtf do they think they are going to find recruits? 

[Hotel]

4 hours ago, jrizzell said:

This seems like a really big over course correction...

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/05/06/coronavirus-survivors-banned-from-joining-the-military/

 Let's just hope this over course correction does not expand to military members. Can you imagine needing a flight waiver because you had COVID?

[Lawman]

This seems like a really big over course correction...
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/05/06/coronavirus-survivors-banned-from-joining-the-military/

Yeah I think this falls into somebody sensationalizing the report when reality is “we don’t have a memo/frago for it.... yet.”

In 72 hours we had procedures for masks service wide though so somebody please stop worrying about refining that crap and do some real work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThreeHoler]

 Let's just hope this over course correction does not expand to military members. Can you imagine needing a flight waiver because you had COVID?

While it isn’t a waiver the RTFS process for post-COVID is not good or easy.

[BashiChuni]

Hate speech if you say “Chinese virus” in San Antonio. 

[tac airlifter]

25 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Hate speech if you say “Chinese virus” in San Antonio. 

Wow.

So can we all agree the nation has gone full retard embracing tyranny?  Or are some of us still pretending the lockdowns and suspension of rights are “necessary?”

 

 

[BashiChuni]

Well past full retard

[brickhistory]

[brickhistory]

Just read a description describing the petty bureaucratic imps trying to increase the scope of their powers at the expense of the Constitution due to Kung flu:

 

The Karenwaffe.

 

I'm probably late to the party in knowing of this one, but I laughed out loud just now reading it.

[dream big]

Texas, Florida and a few other states are a few weeks into “opening things up” and so far so good.  The sky isn’t falling and the death rate has peaked.  Far stretch from the doom and gloom we heard about from certain people.  If someone has a problem with it then they are welcome to stay at home. 

Michigan on the other hand? The ‘queen’ there is asking for a rebellion. 

[08Dawg]

6 hours ago, dream big said:

Michigan on the other hand? The ‘queen’ there is asking for a rebellion. 

Or, half a dozen law suits challenging the legality of her royal decrees. 

[kaputt]

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/21/how_fear_groupthink_drove_unnecessary_global_lockdowns_143253.html
Pretty good article about fear and groupthink during this. 

[skybert]

On 5/23/2020 at 10:50 AM, dream big said:

Texas, Florida and a few other states are a few weeks into “opening things up” and so far so good.  The sky isn’t falling and the death rate has peaked.  Far stretch from the doom and gloom we heard about from certain people.  If someone has a problem with it then they are welcome to stay at home. 

Michigan on the other hand? The ‘queen’ there is asking for a rebellion. 

Me and my friends up here are just ignoring the bitch and enjoying our lives. 

[tac airlifter]

On 5/23/2020 at 6:10 PM, kaputt said:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/21/how_fear_groupthink_drove_unnecessary_global_lockdowns_143253.html
Pretty good article about fear and groupthink during this. 

Great article.  Hopefully next time a great panic comes knocking we’ll delay tossing out freedoms at least until we have real data, not merely projections by self described experts.  Speaking of which, now that data has disproven the experts, can we cease calling them experts?

[nsplayr]

9 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Great article.  Hopefully next time a great panic comes knocking we’ll delay tossing out freedoms at least until we have real data, not merely projections by self described experts.  Speaking of which, now that data has disproven the experts, can we cease calling them experts?

I respect you man but this type of thinking is so disappointing.

“Self-described experts?” People like Dr. Fauci are experts in their field, full stop. World-class expertise. Top 0.01% level expertise. Lots of other doctors and scientists and public health experts are working hard to try to beat this thing so we can stop people from dying and all get back to living our lives as normally as possible.

The problem is that science is hard and uncertain and this virus is novel and translating scientific data and observations into public policy is also hard and gets filtered through 50 different governors and the entire federal executive branch.

I’m totally fine blaming public policy leaders for failures (I certainly do right now!), but to let public policy failures lead you to throw out the entire concept of expertise is really unfortunate.

You are an expert in your line of work; would you want some random guy off the street to completely discredit and mistrust you if there was a mishap or CIVCAS incident? I think not. I mean, they will and they do, but it’s not the right stance to take.

The article The Death of Expertise is really relevant here, check it out if you can. The book with the same title was fine but the OP article is really all you need.

Edited May 25, 2020 by nsplayr

[FLEA]

6 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

I respect you man but this type of thinking is so disappointing.

“Self-described experts?” People like Dr. Fauci are experts in their field, full stop. World-class expertise. Top 0.01% level expertise. Lots of other doctors and scientists and public health experts are working hard to try to beat this thing so we can stop people from dying and all get back to living our lives as normally as possible.

The problem is that science is hard and uncertain and this virus is novel and translating scientific data and observations into public policy is also hard and gets filtered through 50 different governors and the entire federal executive branch.

I’m totally fine blaming public policy leaders for failures (I certainly do right now!), but to let public policy failures lead you to throw out the entire concept of expertise is really unfortunate.

You are an expert in your line of work; would you want some random guy off the street to completely discredit and mistrust you if there was a mishap or CIVCAS incident? I think not. I mean, they will and they do, but it’s not the right stance to take.

The book The Death of Expertise is really relevant here, check it out if you can. The book was fine but the OP article is really all you need.

I'll agree its not the experts fault. I think where the animosity comes from is how expertise translates to policy. If you are a governor and you are overseeing a crisis like this, obviously you are going to fill your staff with doctors to advise you. The problem is, doctors, by their nature, want to save lives. Their value on life and life saving medicine supersedes any other requirement for society because that is their job and their hippocratic oath. And we should be glad they are like that. Its what keeps them 16 hours in an emergency room exhausting every possible solution and experimental treatment necessary to save some lives. But it doesn't translate to policy well. So if you let your doctors run away with the decision making of course they are going to say "we must completely lock down everyone and barricade their homes to save every last single life possible and no-one must die!"

Then you have to top that off with the public's demand for information. I think people with a minimal verse in science know these models are hard to read and are not designed to do what we are using them for. But when the governor gets on TV people don't like to hear "i think" and "it seems like". They want to hear "yeah, we are definitely going to be open again in 3 weeks, that will be the peak." 

[tac airlifter]

4 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I respect you man but this type of thinking is so disappointing.

“Self-described experts?” People like Dr. Fauci are experts in their field, full stop. World-class expertise. Top 0.01% level expertise. Lots of other doctors and scientists and public health experts are working hard to try to beat this thing so we can stop people from dying and all get back to living our lives as normally as possible.

The problem is that science is hard and uncertain and this virus is novel and translating scientific data and observations into public policy is also hard and gets filtered through 50 different governors and the entire federal executive branch.

I’m totally fine blaming public policy leaders for failures (I certainly do right now!), but to let public policy failures lead you to throw out the entire concept of expertise is really unfortunate.

You are an expert in your line of work; would you want some random guy off the street to completely discredit and mistrust you if there was a mishap or CIVCAS incident? I think not. I mean, they will and they do, but it’s not the right stance to take.

The article The Death of Expertise is really relevant here, check it out if you can. The book with the same title was fine but the OP article is really all you need.

Good post.  And I respect to you too.  Especially because you defend your ideas and engage in the frustratingly messy act of attempting to convince others.  Precisely why I’m frustrated at “experts” who had no time to explain the science behind unprecedented lockdowns, we just have to do it now!!  But we have data indicating otherwise, so it’s reasonable to ask the people who insisted we obey without debate to explain how they were so dramatically wrong.  Turns out being knowledgeable about infectious diseases doesn’t mean you know shit about public policy or predicting the future (FLEA said it more eloquently).
 

Additionally, I welcome debate about my line of work.  Tactical debate on execution isn’t germane, just as no one is seriously debating exactly how doctors treat patients.  But overall strategic debate about the wars, our goals, etc.?  I welcome a national debate, and the various “expert” generals who have lost for 20 years definitely could use the second guessing.  Good analogy!