COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[uhhello]

3 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

To be fair, effectiveness as a leader includes getting people to follow you. I digress. 

To be fairererere, right or wrong, he wasn't in step with his boss.  The Wg CC was saying/doing one thing while the OG cc was doing/saying the opposite.

[SurelySerious]

7 minutes ago, uhhello said:

To be fairererere, right or wrong, he wasn't in step with his boss.  The Wg CC was saying/doing one thing while the OG cc was doing/saying the opposite.

Tough spot, for sure, but then you question the effectiveness in the role as a senior advisor. But then you have to consider that an executive branch leader has to weigh many factors (generally speaking, separate from whether Trump did it appropriately) whereas a doctor advisor on public health is roughly always going to be incredibly conservative to doing everything to try saving as many people as possible without regard to other factors. 

[ClearedHot]

The 50 Millionth vaccine was administered today in the U.S.  With 30 million confirmed US cases we are approaching 1/3 of the U.S. population that is likely protected.  The overall U.S. infection rate continues a steep downward trend (although there was a bounce two days ago.)    There is a projected huge increase in vaccine production and delivery that will that will provide another 140 million doses in the next five weeks.  Also, on Wednesday the FDA approved Johnson and Johnson's single does vaccine which is already being shipped for distribution.  If the states can continue to accelerate shots to arms we will have immunity in 70% of the U.S. population by the end of April and the entire U.S. population by the end of June.

My Baseops epidemiology degree predicts the infection rate will continue to plummet while the calls to reopen everything will grow much louder. 

 

[jazzdude]

To be fair, effectiveness as a leader includes getting people to follow you. I digress. 

Yes, he's the head of a federal agency, but that agency doesn't have the ability to force the public to do anything. NIAID is focused on research.

He's on the staff for the COVID task force, not leading it, or implementing/enforcing recommendations for the general public. He makes recommendations, but ultimately, it's on the president (or governors) to lead, and implement/enforce policy.

It's like getting angry at a Capt/Maj AO for a decision a wing/CC made; it doesn't make sense.

[SurelySerious]

17 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

Yes, he's the head of a federal agency, but that agency doesn't have the ability to force the public to do anything. NIAID is focused on research.

He's on the staff for the COVID task force, not leading it, or implementing/enforcing recommendations for the general public. He makes recommendations, but ultimately, it's on the president (or governors) to lead, and implement/enforce policy.

It's like getting angry at a Capt/Maj AO for a decision a wing/CC made; it doesn't make sense.

True, however he may be just the leader at NIAID and just a guy in the task force, but in that light should he be the face of the task force briefing things everyday? He’s taken a role in doing so where he’s an implied authority with no real accountability. It’s super messy. 

[FourFans]

14 hours ago, MyCS said:

...and some of them are more at risk because they deal with nothing but students...

Setting aside the rampant ignorance that leads people to not want this vaccine, I can't pass on the necessity to clarify some science here: working with students has all of ZERO impact on someone's risk level.  Age, health habits, and genetics directly impact someone's risk with this virus. 

Having a higher than normal interaction with multiple subjects may POSSIBLY (still not proven by the data we've seen) increase the likelihood of getting infected.  However if an individual is young and healthy (i.e. doesn't smoke and isn't morbidly obese for starters) their level of risk is low, by the science and stats observed over the last year, of having a severe case of COVID if they get infected...meaning "low risk".  

Just because someone works with a lot of people does not make their job high risk.  Please kill that false narrative wherever you encounter it.  Our enlisted instructors would be better served by putting down the cigarette and the energy drink than by being kept away from students...or better yet, GET VACCINATED.

Facts not fear

[1:1:1]

I'm pretty sure OBOGS is going to kill me before COVID does. Too bad there isn't a vaccine for that.

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

GET VACCINATED.

Facts not fear

No thanks, I’ll pass on the experimental vaccine until ordered to take it.  

[ImNotARobot]

No thanks, I’ll pass on the experimental vaccine until ordered to take it.  

“2”. I won’t lose a pension over it, but my family will not be participating in the largest human experimental medicine charade of all time.

[Homestar]

5 minutes ago, MyCS said:

This is the most brain dead comment I've ever read.

That's rich, dude. Rich.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

No thanks, I’ll pass on the experimental vaccine until ordered to take it.  

I doubt it remains experimental for long.

[FLEA]

4 hours ago, Homestar said:

I doubt it remains experimental for long.

Phizer intends to apply for full approval in April. I don't think Moderna will be far behind them. Once that happens you will likely be ordered to vaccinate. 

 

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Phizer intends to apply for full approval in April. I don't think Moderna will be far behind them. Once that happens you will likely be ordered to vaccinate. 

 

And then I will.

I’m hoping that formal approval will be coupled with formally eased restrictions on vaccinated personnel.  
 

just for fun:

 

[Bigred]

9 hours ago, MyCS said:

This is the most brain dead comment I've ever read. Students coming from all over the US to one training environment DOES put instructors far more at risk. Otherwise, why does big blue test them all immediately upon arrival. Smh

Let's just not test them all and see how fast the pipeline shuts down because all the best instructors are out because of COVID. I guess the doctors who went to med school are testing all the students for fun?

 

A more accurate question, how many of those students actually pop positive for COVID? Is it statistically significant? That would give a far better answer to whether or not the instructors are working with a high risk population. 

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, MyCS said:

Have you ever been to a training base with trainees in constant close quarters with their instructors? It doesn't matter how many test positive because the numbers are not small to those with that access. Nobody wants to contract COVID from a student, then take it home to their family. We have lots of instructors who have high risk family members.

Students are in constant close quarters with their instructors and other trainees. All the COVID spikes after holiday social gatherings provided enough data to show that all it takes is one person to spread the virus at one small event. People act like teens are mindful of cleanliness.

We just had a GS pass away 3 weeks ago from COVID. He worked in the wing building for a GO. 

What you just said equates to "My own feelings are too loud to allow the introduction and analysis of facts.  Look someone else understands some other facts that sound like they support me.  By the way someone who has nothing to do with any of this died, so I'm right." 

If you were physically present, I'd slap you in the face, hard.  Ask anyone here who knows me, they'll affirm that fact.  Sometimes that's the only response to upset and end hysteria.  I'm guessing you've never experienced such physical violence in your life.  Perhaps you should seek is out.  Like fight club, it might turn the volume down on these other stressors in your life.

You emotions are important, that's true.  These instructors are at higher risk than the rest of us, also true.  Facts, however, provide context.  These young (not 55 of older), hopefully fit, instructors or MORE at risk of dying from lung or heart disease or a freak car crash than they are from contracting COVID, even at their heighten exposure rate.  If unique cases exist with at risk family members, those should be handled individually.  We don't set guidelines based on the exceptions.

Yes, we obviously test new inbounds.  This is a risk mitigation measure...thereby lowering the risk you so ardently fear.  The question remains: what are the COVID positive rates in the community that's so at risk? If the answer is nil, or virtually nil, the risk mitigation measures have worked...and the risk is being managed correctly.

The sky is not falling.  Stop carrying on like a petulant child who doesn't like being told he's wrong.  That is exactly what the media, politicians, and the violent left/right side of our society would love for you to do and to get others to do. 

I am on your side, and I'm telling you that you're letting fear win.  Stop it.  No one else can do this for you.  Stand up straight, identify and face the fear that's obviously assaulting you, then look at facts placed within appropriate context in relation to that fear, and respond with courage by telling your fear to sod off.

[MCO]

I don’t understand why everyone keeps interacting with the troll.

[MCO]

2 hours ago, MyCS said:

I don't understand why your parents took the paper bag off your face either. I get it, they wanted you to feel ”normal" and the bag was your safe space. Nobody wants to see a kid with a face that resembles like a Hot Wheels track. 

Classy.

Edited February 27, 2021 by MCO

[FourFans]

7 hours ago, MCO said:

I don’t understand why everyone keeps interacting with the troll.

Honestly, I'm stuck in a hotel and I have nothing better to do and this is kinda fun.

 

[ClearedHot]

And so it begins...

 

[Homestar]

The message needs to be: vaccination is the way to beat the virus and the lockdowns. This negative message (you can’t travel if not vaccinated) is unhelpful. This Atlantic article discusses the importance of messaging. 
 

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/618147/

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

And so it begins...

 

Guessing official travel will still be allowed, though? 

[Tank]

31 minutes ago, MyCS said:

Show me in the leave regulation where it says I have to be vaccinated to burn use/lose or to take leave? Show me a mandatory order from the POTUS for every branch to vaccinate. Good luck running this through JAG. 

It doesn’t say that he won’t approve leave, it says he probably won’t approve leave outside of CA.  
 

I don’t agree with it but this is left up to the CC.  

Edited February 28, 2021 by Tank

[jazzdude]

Show me in the leave regulation where it says I have to be vaccinated to burn use/lose or to take leave? Show me a mandatory order from the POTUS for every branch to vaccinate. Good luck running this through JAG. 

Unfortunately, you can burn leave sitting at home. Nowhere does it say you have to be allowed to travel out of the local area on leave, it's up to the commander to approve (and not just for vaccine status, but for mission reasons as well).

Just like the leave reg doesn't specify what local area means, and commanders get to define what that means for their units. Some commanders are much more liberal than others on what that means. I've seen anywhere from 2 hour radius, to don't cross a mountain pass during winter, to go anywhere you want in CONUS after work on Friday just be ready to work on Monday.

And I'd bet the local JAG has already done a review on the policy before it was published.

[disgruntledemployee]

59 minutes ago, MyCS said:

Show me in the leave regulation where it says I have to be vaccinated to burn use/lose or to take leave? Show me a mandatory order from the POTUS for every branch to vaccinate. Good luck running this through JAG. 

Show me in the leave AFI where it says leave is automatically approved when submitted.  I know someone overseas and the quarantine/testing/zero leave actions make our military people almost prisoners.  If "exposed" they quarantine you for 2 weeks in your room... can't leave at all.  Which I hear is the runtime of watching every Simpsons episode.  One finds the end of the internet pretty quick like that. 

If and when a mandatory vaccinate order comes, the order will be fully vetted by DoD/Executive level legal.  And there is a waiver for anything, except physics.

PS, the things people lose their shit over these days is epically amazing. 

Out

[FLEA]

2 hours ago, jazzdude said:

 

Unfortunately, you can burn leave sitting at home. Nowhere does it say you have to be allowed to travel out of the local area on leave, it's up to the commander to approve (and not just for vaccine status, but for mission reasons as well).

Just like the leave reg doesn't specify what local area means, and commanders get to define what that means for their units. Some commanders are much more liberal than others on what that means. I've seen anywhere from 2 hour radius, to don't cross a mountain pass during winter, to go anywhere you want in CONUS after work on Friday just be ready to work on Monday.

And I'd bet the local JAG has already done a review on the policy before it was published.

 

Yeah. While it's shitty, I'm willing to bet it is still a lawful order. 

The threat COVID has to shit down an entire Wing level organization (See Capt Brett Crozier) for a period of several weeks has basically given commanders carte blanche to do as they see fit to protect their units mission from exposure. 

Edited February 28, 2021 by FLEA