COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[HeloDude]

33 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

I guess I don’t understand how Oregon had done mail in voting for presidential elections since 2000, not having to have someone show an ID, to cast said ballot, yet states that have Conservative leadership are losing their minds over it?

Why is asking someone to verify their birthday, last four of their SSAN, address, and sign their signature on file (when one got a state driver’s license) not acceptable to cast a ballot but showing an ID? Because that’s everything Colorado just asked me to mail in my vote.

If that’s good enough to prove someone’s identity, then why can’t that also be used when purchasing firearm?  

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, M2 said:

You had me convinced until that last sentence.  What our society needs more is people who give a half fuck about themselves!   With an obesity rate over 40% and increasing rapidly, it doesn't appear a large number of Americans gave a fuck about their own health before COVID hit.  These same people who want everyone to wear masks for their benefit are the first ones in line at McDonald's drive thru to get the McRib sandwich when it comes out (too much work to actually get out of their vehicles to get them).

It also contradicts your "thinning the herd" argument.  Despite most Americans being the unhealthiest individuals in this country's history, our life expectancy has gone up from below 70 in the 1960s to over 78 today.  We can credit modern medicine for that accomplishment; with the fringe benefit is the longer people live, the more that industry can profit off them.  But I am also not quite sure this extended lifetime equals an extended quality of life. 

As one who is getting closer to the final quarter of his life (i.e., nearing 60), I realize the decisions I made during the first 75% of it will impact how the last 25% will go, and I accept that. 

But also knowing that death could unknowingly be minutes away at any time drives me to want to live and enjoy what's left of my life--be it a few more minutes or decade--to the fullest extent possible.  As such, I firmly believe it is time to stop letting this pandemic control our lives and we as a nation return to the old "normal" as much as possible.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for people voluntarily wearing masks, getting vaccinated, etc. to help end this pandemic; but I don't believe the government has the right to force such measures especially when I constantly see those "high risk" individuals continue with their unhealthy habits on a regular basis (the drive through at Whataburger is always crowded).   Oddly, it appears now that some of the restrictions have been lifted in this state, most of those I see in Walmart or other high risk areas not wearing the masks are the obviously highest vulnerable (i.e. older and/or overweight/unhealthy).

 

Brother, I don’t disagree with any of your points above. I’m in my mid 40s now and fitness and health are a higher priority for me now than ever. I’m going to do everything in my control to be around for my kids, grandkids, and hopefully great grandkids for a long, long time. I’ve seen a parent, in-laws, and many family members and friends suffer later in life for poor health decisions made as they transitioned into middle age. That said, even people who made poor decisions shouldn’t be condemned or abandoned during a global pandemic.
 

What gets me about this whole thing is that people only seem to want to consider themselves when it comes to the decision to wear a mask or get vaccinated. I’m low risk, why should I have to wear a mask? I’m young and healthy, why should I get vaccinated? The reality is that these are really pretty easy things to do that will help prevent negative outcomes for hundreds of thousands of people. I get that this country is about personal freedoms and I like it that way as much as anyone. But just because we all have the right to be selfish pricks doesn’t mean we should. 
 

With regards to encouraging people to take charge of their own personal health, I’m curious as to what kinds of policies people would support to this end? Conservatives like to discourage any and all regulation these days but most of us readily accept government restrictions on substances that can harm us. Hard drugs, tobacco, even alcohol are al, restricted or regulated by the government on some level. Why should it be any different with the massive amounts of added sugar and high fructose corn syrup that have found their way into much of the food we eat? At the very least I’d argue that it’s time to end or greatly reduce subsidies to corn farming in our country. E85 and high fructose corn syrup aren’t helping anyone here. 

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

If that’s good enough to prove someone’s identity, then why can’t that also be used when purchasing firearm?  

Probably because one is purchasing an item that can possibly kill or injure another human being? It is also regulated by federal law, unlike voting.

It’s just very interesting that states wanting to require the voting ID requirement are the same states that had an highly contest election this past one. People like Matt Gaetz want voters IDs checked, just not from underaged girls he allegedly banged 😂 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Sua Sponte

[HeloDude]

1 minute ago, Sua Sponte said:

Probably because one is purchasing an item that can possibly kill or injure another human being? It is also regulated by federal law, unlike voting.

Thank you for explaining that you need an ID to adequately determine someone’s identity.  

[Prozac]

40 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

If that’s good enough to prove someone’s identity, then why can’t that also be used when purchasing firearm?  

This is a good and interesting argument as it exposes hypocrisy on both sides.
 

I’ll use myself as an example. It won’t surprise anyone here that I am an advocate for stricter gun control. I would support mandatory background checks, licensing and training requirements for all gun owners (with a pass on the training requirements given to military and law enforcement personnel). This seems entirely reasonable to me as just handing an AR15 to a completely untrained civilian seems like a recipe for disaster to me. However the argument from gun rights activists is that gun ownership is a right guaranteed by the Constitution and that these restrictions would place an undue check on that right. 

On the flip side, many conservatives are incredulous that requiring ID should be such an impediment to voting rights. I mean, it’s a small inconvenience of modern life to spend a few hours at the DMV to get a license right? Well, for most of us that’s true, but for a slice of our population it’s not. For example, my grandfather didn’t have a current drivers license for the last ten years of his life. My grandmother never had a driver’s license. She didn’t need it. Could they have gotten an alternate form of ID if needed? Probably, as they had a support network of friends and family that could have helped. But what about people who don’t. The number of people in this country without a current ID and who lack the ability to easily get one is not insignificant and tends to be more black and brown than white. Where in the constitution does it state that you need a valid ID to vote? Of course, it doesn’t and Democrats use the exact same argument as Republicans here: Voter ID laws are an undue check on individuals’ constitutional rights. 
 

So what’s the answer? I don’t have a good one. These are thorny issues. But just as conservatives are (constitutionally justifiably) concerned about restrictions on gun rights, so are liberals concerned about people’s most solemn right to vote. Perhaps we’re overdue for a real conversation about adjusting our Constitution to better represent life in the modern world. 

[Sua Sponte]

Just now, HeloDude said:

Thank you for explaining that you need an ID to adequately determine someone’s identity.  

Showing a picture ID to buy a gun? Absolutely. To vote? No, there are different ways to authenticate one’s self.

[HeloDude]

1 minute ago, Prozac said:

So what’s the answer? I don’t have a good one. These are thorny issues. But just as conservatives are (constitutionally justifiably) concerned about restrictions on gun rights, so are liberals concerned about people’s most solemn right to vote. Perhaps we’re overdue for a real conversation about adjusting our Constitution to better represent life in the modern world. 

It just shows the issue is political, that’s all.

[HeloDude]

Just now, Sua Sponte said:

Showing a picture ID to buy a gun? Absolutely. To vote? No, there are different ways to authenticate one’s self.

Read what you wrote and then try again...

[Sua Sponte]

1 minute ago, HeloDude said:

Read what you wrote and then try again...

Yawn, I did, however your stupid apples to iPads comparison is beyond ridiculous. If you don’t understand my answer, go take a civics/government class at a community college and come back.

[HeloDude]

Just now, Sua Sponte said:

Yawn, I did, however your stupid apples to iPads comparison is beyond ridiculous. If you don’t understand my answer, go take a civics/government class at a community college and come back.

Nah...I think you’ve shown your hypocrisy.

[Sua Sponte]

Just now, HeloDude said:

Nah...I think you’ve shown your hypocrisy.

Copy

You: ”I don’t have anything else to add other than conjecture.”

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, Sua Sponte said:

Yawn, I did, however your stupid apples to iPads comparison is beyond ridiculous. If you don’t understand my answer, go take a civics/government class at a community college and come back.

Copy.... And we will all wait for you to retake highschool debate lol. You're better than this man. 

[HU&W]

1 hour ago, Sua Sponte said:

Probably because one is purchasing an item that can possibly kill or injure another human being?

1 hour ago, Sua Sponte said:

Showing a picture ID to buy a gun? Absolutely. To vote? No, there are different ways to authenticate one’s self.

In other words, voting should be less regulated than purchasing firearms...because the results are less consequential? 

[VMFA187]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

With regards to encouraging people to take charge of their own personal health, I’m curious as to what kinds of policies people would support to this end? 

I would consider national healthcare if you are excluded if you can't pass a BMI or standardized fitness test. 

4 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Probably because one is purchasing an item that can possibly kill or injure another human being? It is also regulated by federal law, unlike voting.

And someone's ability to vote can result in others being harmed due to poor policy. 

[brabus]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

But just as conservatives are (constitutionally justifiably) concerned about restrictions on gun rights, so are liberals concerned about people’s most solemn right to vote.

Fine, let’s just call it even and you have to pass an FBI background check every time you want to exercise your constitutional right to vote. Also, you can’t vote directly by mail, but you can drop a ballot off and stand there while someone takes 20-69 min to validate whether you’re legally allowed to vote. Lastly, some guy in the govt decided arbitrarily that if you want to vote for anyone shorter than 6’, you have to pay $200 and go on a list that you voted for said candidate.
 

I do understand what you’re saying, but had to point out how hypocritical it is for people to be so pro-gun control legislation, but lose their minds over voter ID. What do they want, no infringement of constitutional rights, or is it just on parts they don’t personally like? To be clear, not saying this pertains to you personally.

[HossHarris]

9 hours ago, Prozac said:

Where in the constitution does it state that you need a valid ID to vote? Of course, it doesn’t ...

Correct. It does not. 
 

but it does say you must be a citizen. So come up with a convenient and equitable method to prove citizenship and we’ll be all set.

 

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, HossHarris said:

Correct. It does not. 
 

but it does say you must be a citizen. So come up with a convenient and equitable method to prove citizenship and we’ll be all set.

 

Doesn’t one prove they’re a citizen when they register to vote?

[jazzdude]

Doesn’t one prove they’re a citizen when they register to vote?

There's two pieces to this puzzle: verifying you are who you say you are (both at the time of voting and when registering), and verifying you have a right to vote (citizen, resident for local/state elections, and not restricted from voting). Like you point out, the latter is typically done when the voter rolls are compiled, to include registering to vote.

The identity piece is harder, especially when it has to be verified for all methods of voting, particularly votes that are mailed.

[jazzdude]

Back on topic, COVID shot#2 complete after having COVID over Christmas. Typical symptoms of fever, fatigue, headache, etc, which I also had on shot #1 as well. Made for a crummy few days.

[Waves]

https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-suicide-prevention-coronavirus-pandemic-d8d9168403baa6660e5125c040b2ae81

Seems like a few people on this forum were proven wrong.

[brabus]

That’s great news. What’s also interesting is while suicides fell 6%, gun sales increased 85%.

Anti-gun crowd trying to explain how people only killed themselves because guns exist...

[FLEA]

9 hours ago, Waves said:

https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-suicide-prevention-coronavirus-pandemic-d8d9168403baa6660e5125c040b2ae81

Seems like a few people on this forum were proven wrong.

Interesting theory behind if though. The article isn't saying that lockdown has prevented suicides but that a limited phenomena has staved them off. While the US will likely resume a normal life sometime this year, it is begging to look like Europe is going increasingly interested in waiting until next summer. (2022) 

I would be interested to compare their statistics as their lockdown continues to get harsher and longer. 

[ecugringo]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Interesting theory behind if though. The article isn't saying that lockdown has prevented suicides but that a limited phenomena has staved them off. While the US will likely resume a normal life sometime this year, it is begging to look like Europe is going increasingly interested in waiting until next summer. (2022) 

I would be interested to compare their statistics as their lockdown continues to get harsher and longer. 

We had a colleague come to the US from our Netherlands office last week.  They are where we were last May.  You can get takeout but bars, restaurants, shopping closed.  There is a curfew in place at night.  He said he can't even meet at a soccer field to kick a ball around with friends.  Must be under 25 to do that.  Parks are closed.

THere are protest over these lockdowns in every country, we just dont see it covered in the news.  He said if it goes into the summer with warmer months mass rioting will take place.  People dont trust the vaccine there so a lot of resistance against it.

All seems pretty sad.

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, ecugringo said:

We had a colleague come to the US from our Netherlands office last week.  They are where we were last May.  You can get takeout but bars, restaurants, shopping closed.  There is a curfew in place at night.  He said he can't even meet at a soccer field to kick a ball around with friends.  Must be under 25 to do that.  Parks are closed.

THere are protest over these lockdowns in every country, we just dont see it covered in the news.  He said if it goes into the summer with warmer months mass rioting will take place.  People dont trust the vaccine there so a lot of resistance against it.

All seems pretty sad.

Yup. I travel the NL, Belgium and Germany routinely, and essentially the lockdown posture has never altered from when the pandemic first started. It has "eased" for a few weeks at a time here and there but for the most part personal liberties have been non existent. It is REALLY starting to wear on people here. A group of us just got back from the US and were shocked to see it was like a pandemic wasn't even happening. People wore mask but we were largely free to go shopping, eat at restaurants or go to events.

Meanwhile, Europe has completely bungled its vaccination plans and so their cases continue to rise. Add on top of that Germany and France's stiff opposition to anything resembling a "vaccine passport" and it really doesn't matter anyway. Its quite clear with Germany leading the EU on this endeavor, that Europe doesn't intend to exit lockdown until 2022 at the earliest. 

And yes, there are major protest over the lockdowns here. The NL and Belgium have seen quite a few. In Germany the police often break them up. No true freedom of assembly there. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by FLEA

[ecugringo]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Yup. I travel the NL, Belgium and Germany routinely, and essentially the lockdown posture has never altered from when the pandemic first started. It has "eased" for a few weeks at a time here and there but for the most part personal liberties have been non existent. It is REALLY starting to wear on people here. A group of us just got back from the US and were shocked to see it was like a pandemic wasn't even happening. People wore mask but we were largely free to go shopping, eat at restaurants or go to events.

Meanwhile, Europe has completely bungled its vaccination plans and so their cases continue to rise. Add on top of that Germany and France's stiff opposition to anything resembling a "vaccine passport" and it really doesn't matter anyway. Its quite clear with Germany leading the EU on this endeavor, that Europe doesn't intend to exit lockdown until 2022 at the earliest. 

And yes, there are major protest over the lockdowns here. The NL and Belgium have seen quite a few. In Germany the police often break them up. No true freedom of assembly there. 

Just had a call with our Canadian office.  Canada is shutting down again.

 

Read an article last night how Russia was trying to take advantage of the situation in the EU and push the Sputnik vaccine.  Not sure how true this is but interesting.

Also have a buddy in Malaysia that handles the Asia-Pac region for my company.  No vaccines yet, unknown when it will happen.