COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)

[FLEA]

  On 8/3/2021 at 1:11 AM, busdriver said:

This is the fundamental disconnect.  Some agree with you.  Some think the primary purpose of government is protect its citizens rights.

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Yeah no where in my oath of office do I ever agree to protect the citizens. In fact there is only one thing in all oaths of office in the US federal government we do agree to protect. 

[pawnman]

  On 8/3/2021 at 4:21 AM, viper154 said:

Completely irrelevant to any point. Nice attempt at deflection though. If you would like to have a productive conversation about vaccines, in particular the covid vaccine, and the governments role in that, I am happy to have a healthy debate. If you want to deflect any productive conversation into a keyboard warrior pissing match, I’m not interested.

Based on all your previous responses to other people, I’m guessing you will be choosing the later route. I encourage you to take a step back and attempt constructive conversation instead of deflecting any post that differs from your opinion.  

 

Edit to add-Immigration isn’t a right btw, Constitution specifically grants Congress the power to make immigration law. 

 

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"Why do you think government can force vaccines on us?"

"Well, here's a long list of other things government does in the name of public safety"

"Stop talking about government, we're talking about the vaccines".

It hurts my heart that people this stupid are flying militarily aircraft. 

[viper154]

  On 8/3/2021 at 11:08 AM, pawnman said:

 

It hurts my heart that people this stupid are flying militarily aircraft. 

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Ha! The government doesn’t force you to to buy a gun, force you to get a drivers license, force you vote, or force you to immigrate here. And for fucks sake, you tried to argue that immigration is right!!  Article one, section 8, US Constitution gives the authority of immigration law to Congress!!
 

I see why they keep you in the back of jet. I also see why you got passed over the first time, makes perfect sense now. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by viper154

[pawnman]

  On 8/3/2021 at 11:55 AM, viper154 said:

Ha! The government doesn’t force you to to buy a gun, force you to get a drivers license, force you vote, or force you to immigrate here. And for fucks sake, you tried to argue that immigration is right!!  Article one, section 8, US Constitution gives the authority of immigration law to Congress!!
 

I see why they keep you in the back of jet. I also see why you got passed over the first time, makes perfect sense now. 

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I hear F-16s are pretty safe. Most land perfectly fine. No need to strap into that ejection seat.  People get injured by the seat motors all the time. They should just remove them.

[Guest]

  On 8/3/2021 at 4:04 AM, Prozac said:

Nope:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210719/covid-19-vaccines-not-gene-therapy

https://www.genomicseducation.hee.nhs.uk/blog/why-mrna-vaccines-arent-gene-therapies/
 

Also, your statement that MRNA vaccines “killed all animals during a trial” is patently false as well:

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mice/fact-check-a-2012-study-did-not-use-mrna-vaccines-or-result-in-animals-dying-from-disease-idUSKBN2A22UW

Finally, as others have stated, your decision to join the military means you have effectively given up your right to decide what vaccinations you get. 

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From your webmd.com article: "You may see people posting on social media about the vaccines being a kind of gene therapy, and they're partly right..." and it goes on to explain how I am right in that the immunizations are genetic EDITING drugs. They insert mRNA inside your cells which causes your body to react. Editing, as in, modifying. It's using genetic technology to modify the way your body behaves. One of the problems is, sometimes people's body's don't stop creating the spike protein, which leads to disability and/or death. Notwithstanding any long-term effects of the drug that don't cause that. You throw some webmd article at me, then don't even acknowledge the article admits it does in fact edit ones genes. Webmd is a corporate owned website which serves as their tool to make profits, not offer un-biased medical/scientific literature. Read past the headlines. Your second article is more of the same.

Regarding the animals dying, yes they did die. They skipped animal trials for covid immunizations because their previous mRNA research on animals killed them. They claim it wasn't because of the "vaccine", but because once they introduced the virus to the now "immunized" animals, it was their own body's immune response that killed them. So they simultaneously admit during those trials that their mRNA "vaccine" did not work and animals also died because of their "vaccine" which modified their body through mRNA technology.

You might want to look into the risk of Antibody-dependent enhancement from these immunizations. No, not the top 20 corporate controlled fact check ™️ websites brought to you by some mind corralling search engine. Can you file a lawsuit if you're harmed and can prove they knew it would happen but didn't disclose it?

[Guest]

  On 8/3/2021 at 12:59 PM, pawnman said:

I hear F-16s are pretty safe. Most land perfectly fine. No need to strap into that ejection seat.  People get injured by the seat motors all the time. They should just remove them.

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Still coping and still deflecting. Sad. Wake me up when operation of an F-16 requires modifying one's bodily immune response system with an experimental drug.

[HeloDude]

Looks like someone needs an 11-402 refresher…

3.2.3. Aviation service is a privilege, not a right. Entry into training for the rated officer and career enlisted aviator career fields is voluntary. 

[pawnman]

I'm starting to remember why I tapped out of this discussion a few pages back.

People happy to use analogies when it suits them, bitch about analogies when it doesn't.

I cannot fucking wait for this vaccine to be mandatory.  I hope a bunch of you put your money where your mouth is and get out when it happens.

For people who decided to sacrifice for the greater good and take on a dangerous profession, you all sure are gun shy about something far lower risk that protects more people that dropping bombs in the middle of Afghanistan.

[Prozac]

For those still unclear on how mRNA vaccines work, here is a well done video that’s easy to follow:

FWIW mRNA is the future of vaccination and may help humanity tackle everything from AIDS to the common cold. Will the pharmaceuticals make billions as a result? Probably. That doesn’t negate the fact that these vaccines are safe and effective. Besides, I thought we were all about the free market in this country. 

[Guest]

  On 8/3/2021 at 2:25 PM, pawnman said:

I'm starting to remember why I tapped out of this discussion a few pages back.

People happy to use analogies when it suits them, bitch about analogies when it doesn't.

I cannot ing wait for this vaccine to be mandatory.  I hope a bunch of you put your money where your mouth is and get out when it happens.

For people who decided to sacrifice for the greater good and take on a dangerous profession, you all sure are gun shy about something far lower risk that protects more people that dropping bombs in the middle of Afghanistan.

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It appears everyone in this thread has been willing to have a discussion with you, but you have still wished for forced injections. I don't think anyone has told you that you personally shouldn't be able to take it. It's that non-consenting persons shouldn't be forced to. Until proven otherwise, we have to assume these drugs will have effects on us long after we leave the military. Not akin to the risk we willingly take by joining the military in the first place to see combat.

[glockenspiel]

  On 8/3/2021 at 2:25 PM, pawnman said:

I'm starting to remember why I tapped out of this discussion a few pages back.

People happy to use analogies when it suits them, bitch about analogies when it doesn't.

I cannot ing wait for this vaccine to be mandatory.  I hope a bunch of you put your money where your mouth is and get out when it happens.

For people who decided to sacrifice for the greater good and take on a dangerous profession, you all sure are gun shy about something far lower risk that protects more people that dropping bombs in the middle of Afghanistan.

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Thank you for your sacrifice. 🍻 to pawn

[Sua Sponte]

  On 8/3/2021 at 11:55 AM, viper154 said:

Ha! The government doesn’t force you to to buy a gun, force you to get a drivers license, force you vote, or force you to immigrate here. And for fucks sake, you tried to argue that immigration is right!!  Article one, section 8, US Constitution gives the authority of immigration law to Congress!!
 

I see why they keep you in the back of jet. I also see why you got passed over the first time, makes perfect sense now. 

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Ad hominem attacks are usually a great way to make sure the argument you’re making is solid.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Sua Sponte

[M2]

  On 8/2/2021 at 9:42 PM, SurelySerious said:

Some bases are back to masks for everyone without regard to vaccination status, so that incentive is gone, at least temporarily.

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It's not "some bases," any bases in "areas of substantial or high community transmission" per the latest DoD policy effective 28 July 2021...

  Quote

"In areas of substantial or high community transmission, DoD requires all Service members, Federal employees, onsite contractor employees, and visitors, regardless of vaccination status, to wear a mask in an indoor setting in installations and other facilities owned, leased or otherwise controlled by DoD."

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jul/28/2002814362/-1/-1/1/UPDATED-MASK-GUIDELINES-FOR-ALL-DOD-INSTALLATIONS-AND-OTHER-FACILITIES-OSD006862-21-FOD-FINAL.PDF

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If you want to find out if you're included in this buffoonery, here is the CDC website that will tell you which counties are "areas of substantial or high community transmission"...

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

[pawnman]

https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0bGKBf3K?share_id=eyJ1c2VyaWQiOjEyOTY2MjQ3NCwiZG9jX2lkIjoiMGJHS0JmM0siLCJ0aW1lc3RhbXAiOjE2MjgwMTI0MzQ4MzF9&share_destination_id=MTI5NjYyNDc0LTE2MjgwMTI0MzY0MDk=&s=a7&pd=08m38EIR&hl=en_US

 

The courts are not on the side of anti-vaxxers.

I personally hope we see a ton of these cases from more universities, airlines, restaurants, bars, stadiums...

[Guardian]

I would wager a large majority of people who aren’t taking the covid vax aren’t anti Vax’ers

[pawnman]

  On 8/3/2021 at 5:46 PM, Guardian said:

I would wager a large majority of people who aren’t taking the covid vax aren’t anti Vax’ers

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I don't know what else to call people who are anti-vaccine.  It makes even less sense to support all vaccines except this one...

[VR4life69]

  On 8/3/2021 at 5:52 PM, pawnman said:

I don't know what else to call people who are anti-vaccine.  It makes even less sense to support all vaccines except this one...

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Please explain how it makes less sense. The vaccine is still under an EUA, not fully approved. Neither you nor any medical experts can say with 100 percent certainty that there will be no long-term side effects. Many people who are less at risk have made a simple risk calculation and concluded that they would rather take their chances with the virus. You can disagree with that risk assessment, but their decision doesn't make them an anti-vaxxer.

[pawnman]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:00 PM, VR4life69 said:

Please explain how it makes less sense. The vaccine is still under an EUA, not fully approved. Neither you nor any medical experts can say with 100 percent certainty that there will be no long-term side effects. Many people who are less at risk have made a simple risk calculation and concluded that they would rather take their chances with the virus. You can disagree with that risk assessment, but their decision doesn't make them an anti-vaxxer.

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Medical experts can't say with 100% certainty that any treatment, ever will not have long-term side-effects.  You could develop side-effects from taking Tylenol.  But the probability is extremely low.

How long do you want this vaccine studied before you'll take it?  5 years?  10 years? 30 years?

How long did we study the anthrax vaccine before that was administered?  

What were the long-term studies on the polio vaccine in 1955?  Can you imagine if parents back then had the same reaction to "no long-term studies" as you're spouting right now?

 

[VR4life69]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:09 PM, pawnman said:

Medical experts can't say with 100% certainty that any treatment, ever will not have long-term side-effects.  You could develop side-effects from taking Tylenol.  But the probability is extremely low.

How long do you want this vaccine studied before you'll take it?  5 years?  10 years? 30 years?

How long did we study the anthrax vaccine before that was administered?  

What were the long-term studies on the polio vaccine in 1955?  Can you imagine if parents back then had the same reaction to "no long-term studies" as you're spouting right now?

 

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Of course they can't say with 100 percent certainty. My point is that this vaccine has not been studied long enough to really know what the long-term side effects could be. 

The average vaccine takes 10-15 years to get through the entire approval process. So yes, I (who am in an extremely low-risk category) personally would prefer that the Covid vaccines be studied for a similar length of time before I take one of them. 

Yeah...the mortality rate for polio back in the 50's was like 5% or more, and even if you survived you could end up being paralyzed. Not even in the same ballpark as Covid, so is completely irrelevant to the discussion. 

You didn't answer my question as to why this stance makes even less sense than being completely anti-vaccine.

[pawnman]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:30 PM, VR4life69 said:

Of course they can't say with 100 percent certainty. My point is that this vaccine has not been studied long enough to really know what the long-term side effects could be. 

The average vaccine takes 10-15 years to get through the entire approval process. So yes, I (who am in an extremely low-risk category) personally would prefer that the Covid vaccines be studied for a similar length of time before I take one of them. 

Yeah...the mortality rate for polio back in the 50's was like 5% or more, and even if you survived you could end up being paralyzed. Not even in the same ballpark as Covid, so is completely irrelevant to the discussion. 

You didn't answer my question as to why this stance makes even less sense than being completely anti-vaccine.

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So one virus caused death and paralysis...so we rushed a vaccine.  And now we have a virus that causes death and long-term heart problems...but there's no parallels at all?

It makes less sense that being completely anti-vaxx because all the side-effects you're worried about are already side-effects from the MMR, flu, polio, or TB vaccines.  Which, if you're in the military, you already took.  But you're wringing your hands over a vaccine that's been distributed to over a billion people worldwide with side-effect rates far lower than the rates of major issues from covid, yes, even for healthy young studs in the military. 

Is your complaint just the EUA?  So as soon as it gets fully approved (likely in the next few months), you'll suddenly be on-board?

Edited August 3, 2021 by pawnman

[FLEA]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:09 PM, pawnman said:

Medical experts can't say with 100% certainty that any treatment, ever will not have long-term side-effects.  You could develop side-effects from taking Tylenol.  But the probability is extremely low.

How long do you want this vaccine studied before you'll take it?  5 years?  10 years? 30 years?

How long did we study the anthrax vaccine before that was administered?  

What were the long-term studies on the polio vaccine in 1955?  Can you imagine if parents back then had the same reaction to "no long-term studies" as you're spouting right now?

 

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1.) Anthrax; over 100 years. Dozens of GAO reports still report long term and dangerous side effects from the modern version which was researched in 1955 and not forcefully administered until 1997. 

2.) Polio; Over 20 years before trials on the modern solution began in 1955. Tragically trials in the 1930s killed or paralyzed dozens of people including children. 

3.) COVID - 1 year of data now. Great job. 

 

You have to be trolling at this point, you use an example of two of the most dangerous and controversial vaccine programs ever administered. 

[FLEA]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:35 PM, pawnman said:

So one virus caused death and paralysis...so we rushed a vaccine.  And now we have a virus that causes death and long-term heart problems...but there's no parallels at all?

It makes less sense that being completely anti-vaxx because all the side-effects you're worried about are already side-effects from the MMR, flu, polio, or TB vaccines.  Which, if you're in the military, you already took.  But you're wringing your hands over a vaccine that's been distributed to over a billion people worldwide with side-effect rates far lower than the rates of major issues from covid, yes, even for healthy young studs in the military. 

Is your complaint just the EUA?  So as soon as it gets fully approved (likely in the next few months), you'll suddenly be on-board?

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Numerous false statements in this post. Polio emerged in the 1800s and the vaccine wasnt developed until the 1950s. There was no rush on the vaccine. Furthermore your falsely eluding that COVID has as much transmissibility and morbidity as polio which it does not. Additionally, taking vaccines with certain side effects does not remove the probabilities of experiencing those side effects from other vaccines. 

[pawnman]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:42 PM, FLEA said:

Numerous false statements in this post. Polio emerged in the 1800s and the vaccine wasnt developed until the 1950s. There was no rush on the vaccine. Furthermore your falsely eluding that COVID has as much transmissibility and morbidity as polio which it does not. Additionally, taking vaccines with certain side effects does not remove the probabilities of experiencing those side effects from other vaccines. 

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And how long was the vaccine tested before it was pushed to the public?  That was the point.

But I  seriously hope all ypu anti-vaxxers stick to your principles over your paychecks and bail when it's made mandatory for the military. 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by pawnman

[FLEA]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:45 PM, pawnman said:

And how long was the vaccine tested before it was pushed to the public?  That was the point.

But I  seriously hope all ypu anti-vaxxers stick to your principles over your paychecks and bail when it's made mandatory for the military. 

 

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Reference my earlier post. 20 years. 

[pawnman]

  On 8/3/2021 at 6:55 PM, FLEA said:

Reference my earlier post. 20 years. 

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So you'll be willing to take the covid vaccine sometime in 2041?

Perfect.